2025-26 US Pairs Discussion - Milano-Bound By Way of Beijing & St. Louis

[A.H.Black]

When both skate clean, I think Efimova & Mitrofanov are a better team than KamO.

I agree with all that you said except this. I think it's the other way around. Each to his own.

 

[ChillSkate]

I'm surprised about the abundance of mainstream media coverage about Alisa's citizenship quest:

Figure skater Alisa Efimova's Olympic dream hinges on last-minute US citizenship approval

Alisa Efimova hopes to represent the United States at the Milan Cortina Olympics, but she needs to become a citizen first.

apnews.com

I thought there was a 0% chance of Alisa getting her passport in time but now maybe there is a 2% chance since Chan & Howe have basically taken themselves out of it

 

[Carolla5501]

I'm surprised about the abundance of mainstream media coverage about Alisa's citizenship quest:

Figure skater Alisa Efimova's Olympic dream hinges on last-minute US citizenship approval

Alisa Efimova hopes to represent the United States at the Milan Cortina Olympics, but she needs to become a citizen first.

apnews.com

I thought there was a 0% chance of Alisa getting her passport in time but now maybe there is a 2% chance since Chan & Howe have basically taken themselves out of it

There is a well orchestrated PR campaign going on, but it’s Thursday.

I mean the Senate has to vote on it tomorrow. The house has to vote on it and then the president has to not be playing golf to sign the bill and if she really does have to have a physical passport somebody has to work late at the state department to produce a passport. My understanding is to get an emergency same-day passport you have to present yourself at the passport office. Unless there’s one in St. Louis, I see this is being a slight problem, considering that she has a championship event to skate tomorrow evening.

maybe all these miracles will occur but I think the only way it works is if US figure skating says “ oh we changed our mind and we are going to give her a few more weeks and we are going to open ourselves up for a lawsuit.”


Don’t get me wrong. I’d love for her to be able to go because I think she’s the best choice we have for the team event regardless of anything else, but they have to bend some rules and hope they don’t get sued.

 

[Karen-W]

There is a well orchestrated PR campaign going on, but it’s Thursday.

I mean the Senate has to vote on it tomorrow. The house has to vote on it and then the president has to not be playing golf to sign the bill and if she really does have to have a physical passport somebody has to work late at the state department to produce a passport. My understanding is to get an emergency same-day passport you have to present yourself at the passport office. Unless there’s one in St. Louis, I see this is being a slight problem, considering that she has a championship event to skate tomorrow evening.

maybe all these miracles will occur but I think the only way it works is if US figure skating says “ oh we changed our mind and we are going to give her a few more weeks and we are going to open ourselves up for a lawsuit.”


Don’t get me wrong. I’d love for her to be able to go because I think she’s the best choice we have for the team event regardless of anything else, but they have to bend some rules and hope they don’t get sued.

I'm sure there is a CIS office in St Louis where Alisa would be able to obtain her passport. I'm also sure that if there was some reason for the USFS/USOPC to believe that a private bill was making its way through Congress and would pass next week, they could name EfiMit to the team conditionally.

As far as a potential lawsuit... I almost sort of hope that ShiNagy wind up as 1st alternates because I think they'd probably be too ashamed of the fact that they were the team that FAILED to secure the 3rd spot in Beijing to even contemplate a lawsuit. Can you imagine how bad they'd look suing the USFS/USOPC after they were given the chance to earn an additional spot and failed spectacularly?

 

[Karen-W]

Lengthy IG post from Chelsea Liu explaining what is ailing her right now.

Chelsea Liu | 刘家希 on Instagram

190 likes, 19 comments - chel.sea.liu on January 8, 2026

www.instagram.com

 

[Carolla5501]

I'm sure there is a CIS office in St Louis where Alisa would be able to obtain her passport. I'm also sure that if there was some reason for the USFS/USOPC to believe that a private bill was making its way through Congress and would pass next week, they could name EfiMit to the team conditionally.

Am I the only person who remembers how long it took Tanith and her team to get that private bill done? Not to mention that her case was stronger because it was not just a case of I might be able to win a medal. As I recall she had met all the residency requirements and everything and just got caught up in the US government’s bureaucratic nightmare.

From what people who actually know how to look these things up have posted there is not even a private Bill scheduled for a vote in either the house or the senate

And there’s not a passport processing facility in St Louis

You can only get a same-day passport at selected locations

Make an Appointment at a Passport Agency or Center

Learn how and where to make an appointment if you need a passport and have urgent international travel in the next 14 days.

travel.state.gov

 

[Wyliefan]

Chelsea Liu clarifies that she does NOT have pneumonia. It's some lingering illness that the doctors are having trouble diagnosing. https://www.instagram.com/p/DTQoplrgeVy/?igsh=MXA4cmM0ZXRoYXBjNg==

 

[marshallpond]

As I recall she had met all the residency requirements and everything and just got caught up in the US government’s bureaucratic nightmare.

Tanith moved to Michigan in 1998 and got her green card in 2002. Since she's not married to a US citizen then, she would be required to wait 5 years for naturalization, or 2007.

The amendment filed by Sen. Carl Levin of MI I think allowed individuals to file an immigrant worker application and green card application at the same time, reducing the wait for citizenship. Tanith would have been in some sort of visa (most likely the extraordinary ability visa) before getting the green card (most likely filed the application for green card 12-24 months prior to the receipt of green card). Levin's bill would shorten the naturalization process for immigrants of “extraordinary ability.

But to get to that stage, there would have been an insane amount of lobbying, getting support for the amendment -- and Tanith's medal at the Worlds certainly bolstered her case. Alas, not the case for Alisa.

I thought at first why can't Alisa take advantage of that same bill, but Levin's amendment that was approved specifically stated it is for those who began their naturalization process before July 2002.

Now, if Alissa gets her citizenship on or before Sunday, will there be someone similar to the parents of David Mitchell who tried to block Tanith's road to citizenship? If you recall, Mitchell's parents wrote to Sen. Hillary Clinton, requesting that she oppose the amendment introduced to expedite Tanith's citizenship application. As they said then, "No team where both [participants] are U.S. born citizens should risk not getting an Olympic spot because the rules were bent or changed to help someone who is not currently a citizen."

 

[Carolla5501]

Tanith moved to Michigan in 1998 and got her green card in 2002. Since she's not married to a US citizen then, she would be required to wait 5 years for naturalization, or 2007.

The amendment filed by Sen. Carl Levin of MI I think allowed individuals to file an immigrant worker application and green card application at the same time, reducing the wait for citizenship. Tanith would have been in some sort of visa (most likely the extraordinary ability visa) before getting the green card (most likely filed the application for green card 12-24 months prior to the receipt of green card). Levin's bill would shorten the naturalization process for immigrants of “extraordinary ability.

But to get to that stage, there would have been an insane amount of lobbying, getting support for the amendment -- and Tanith's medal at the Worlds certainly bolstered her case. Alas, not the case for Alisa.

I thought at first why can't Alisa take advantage of that same bill, but Levin's amendment that was approved specifically stated it is for those who began their naturalization process before July 2002.

Now, if Alissa gets her citizenship on or before Sunday, will there be someone similar to the parents of David Mitchell who tried to block Tanith's road to citizenship? If you recall, Mitchell's parents wrote to Sen. Hillary Clinton, requesting that she oppose the amendment introduced to expedite Tanith's citizenship application. As they said then, "No team where both [participants] are U.S. born citizens should risk not getting an Olympic spot because the rules were bent or changed to help someone who is not currently a citizen."

I don’t think the Mitchells were alone, for some reason I have one of the Reed’s involved in politicking against the bill in my mind, but maybe I’m just making things up.

But to me, that’s where the risk of lawsuit comes in. US figure skating was pretty safe then because she was a citizen I think by the time the nationals took place. That’s obviously not the case today.

 

[tony]

As far as a potential lawsuit... I almost sort of hope that ShiNagy wind up as 1st alternates because I think they'd probably be too ashamed of the fact that they were the team that FAILED to secure the 3rd spot in Beijing to even contemplate a lawsuit. Can you imagine how bad they'd look suing the USFS/USOPC after they were given the chance to earn an additional spot and failed spectacularly?

Karen, for all these claims that other posters must ‘hate’ skaters because of this or that, you sure have put a lot of energy into whining about Shin and Nagy throughout the last few days. Who cares if they failed in September— but then earned it in January? You will never get over Beijing and we will have to suffer through how much you dislike them for years to come.

Neither of them forced the USFS to send them, but they did and it didn’t work out. Now it’s January and ‘skaters have to peak at the right time’ bla bla would be what needs to happen.

 

[Karen-W]

Karen, for all these claims that other posters must ‘hate’ skaters because of this or that, you sure have put a lot of energy into whining about Shin and Nagy throughout the last few days. Who cares if they failed in September— but then earned it in January? You will never get over Beijing and we will have to suffer through how much you dislike them for years to come.

Neither of them forced the USFS to send them, but they did and it didn’t work out. Now it’s January and ‘skaters have to peak at the right time’ bla bla would be what needs to happen.

Oh, do shut up. You may not care whether or not they failed in September, but you don't get to dictate what I or others feel about them and whether or not they've "earned" a spot on the team - and we've still got several hours before that is anywhere close to being determined.

What I said and will repeat, just to be clear, is that from a PR perspective, it's a terrible look for the team that failed to secure the 3rd spot when given the opportunity to turn around and sue the USFS/USOPC should they give a team that is clearly superior a couple of extra weeks to exhaust all legislative options to secure citizenship. A smart adviser would tell them to lay low and let the process play out since the likelihood of a private bill passing Congress in the next two weeks is incredibly low, so they're probably going to make the team anyways.

 

[tony]

Oh, do shut up. You may not care whether or not they failed in September, but you don't get to dictate what I or others feel about them and whether or not they've "earned" a spot on the team - and we've still got several hours before that is anywhere close to being determined.

Karen, I’m going to leave it at this. It’s always a ‘do shut up’ or ‘fcuk right off’ reply. From the adult you are. I’m not the one dictating how you feel, you do that plenty clearly all on your own.

What I said and will repeat, just to be clear,

I’m reading what you’ve said in the last 36 or so hours during since the pairs short. You are otherwise furious with a competition result and it’s only halfway done.

And ‘to be clear’, if you want to continue, DM me please rather than starting another unhinged reply with some nasty intro. No one wants to read this drama, and… I have a competition to get to.

 

[farahfan]

Tanith moved to Michigan in 1998 and got her green card in 2002. Since she's not married to a US citizen then, she would be required to wait 5 years for naturalization, or 2007.

The amendment filed by Sen. Carl Levin of MI I think allowed individuals to file an immigrant worker application and green card application at the same time, reducing the wait for citizenship. Tanith would have been in some sort of visa (most likely the extraordinary ability visa) before getting the green card (most likely filed the application for green card 12-24 months prior to the receipt of green card). Levin's bill would shorten the naturalization process for immigrants of “extraordinary ability.

But to get to that stage, there would have been an insane amount of lobbying, getting support for the amendment -- and Tanith's medal at the Worlds certainly bolstered her case. Alas, not the case for Alisa.

I thought at first why can't Alisa take advantage of that same bill, but Levin's amendment that was approved specifically stated it is for those who began their naturalization process before July 2002.

Now, if Alissa gets her citizenship on or before Sunday, will there be someone similar to the parents of David Mitchell who tried to block Tanith's road to citizenship? If you recall, Mitchell's parents wrote to Sen. Hillary Clinton, requesting that she oppose the amendment introduced to expedite Tanith's citizenship application. As they said then, "No team where both [participants] are U.S. born citizens should risk not getting an Olympic spot because the rules were bent or changed to help someone who is not currently a citizen."

With Alisa's talk about doing lots of "paperwork" and waiting for a "ruling," could it be that they've found some loophole that sidesteps congressional authority?
Whatever happens, I hope USFS makes a definitive ruling on Sunday with no conditional this or that. As others have pointed out, none of the US pair teams are projected to beat the top Japanese, Chinese, Canadian, Georgian, or Italian pair teams. They just need to beat the Kovalevs, right?

 

[Karen-W]

Karen, I’m going to leave it at this. It’s always a ‘do shut up’ or ‘fcuk right off’ reply. From the adult you are. I’m not the one dictating how you feel, you do that plenty clearly all on your own.

Tony, stop patronizing me. You're the one who is constantly being confrontational and pronouncing that I'm feeling a certain way. I don't get why you feel compelled to defend Nagy (I have my theories, but I'll refrain from sharing them).

I’m reading what you’ve said in the last 36 or so hours during since the pairs short. You are otherwise furious with a competition result and it’s only halfway done.

And ‘to be clear’, if you want to continue, DM me please rather than starting another unhinged reply with some nasty intro. No one wants to read this drama, and… I have a competition to get to.

Oh, I'm not taking this to DM because you are completely out of line, once again, in your personal attack against me. No reasonable person would conclude from my posts about the US pairs in the past day and a half that I'm "furious" about the competition result.

I haven't made any remarks about any of the teams' performance or their scores since the pbp thread on Wednesday night. In fact, if you read the pbp thread, you'd see that I've been pretty even-keeled over the scoring. I do think that all of the teams were overscored compared to what they would have received from an international panel, but relative to what each team put out on the ice, the scores & distance between all of the teams seems about right.

My comments have been limited to the last-ditch efforts to get Efimova her citizenship. I've been one of the first people to point out that the USFS/USOPC could be opening themselves up to a lawsuit from the team that is left out in the cold should there be any delay beyond Sunday or Monday in naming the complete team.

Do I think that ShiNagy would be ill-advised to initiate a lawsuit because it could turn into a PR nightmare for them? Yes. There's no "fury" there in pointing out that the situation could easily be turned on them by a skilled PR professional and their team may want to tread carefully should they wind up the 1st alternates. I don't think the same PR minefield exists if the 1st alternate team in question is anyone else.

By the same token, I also would be happy if Efimova did have a citizenship miracle & they made the team because defending the TE gold is easier with EfiMit doing the TE than any of the other teams we have. Mind, I'm not convinced they'd place higher than KamO in the TE SP or FS, so it probably really doesn't matter much, but it's in the back of my mind that EfiMit DID beat SDDes in the SP at Worlds last year, so it's not out of the realm of possibility they could do that again in Milano-Cortina though I wouldn't bet on it and I'm not sure the USFS/USOPC should either if that's their main calculation in choosing to wait to officially name the full team in the hopes that Efimova does get her citizenship in the next week or so.

 

[tony]

Oh, I'm not taking this to DM because you are completely out of line, once again, in your personal attack against me.

Karen, take it to DM. You’re acting like you’re 13 with your replies. Personal attacks are telling people to fcuk right off, or to shut up. “Out of line” is you. Constantly.

I’m not reading the rest of the tangent.

 

[Karen-W]

Karen, take it to DM. You’re acting like you’re 13 with your replies. Personal attacks are telling people to fcuk right off, or to shut up. “Out of line” is you. Constantly.

I’m not reading the rest of the tangent.

For someone proclaiming they're the adult, this is a pretty toddler-esque type of response.

Have a beautiful day.

 

[Carolla5501]

For someone proclaiming they're the adult, this is a pretty toddler-esque type of response.

Have a beautiful day.

Could both of you take your toddler fit some

Karen, you’re not acting like an adult either

 

[Carolla5501]

With Alisa's talk about doing lots of "paperwork" and waiting for a "ruling," could it be that they've found some loophole that sidesteps congressional authority?
Whatever happens, I hope USFS makes a definitive ruling on Sunday with no conditional this or that. As others have pointed out, none of the US pair teams are projected to beat the top Japanese, Chinese, Canadian, Georgian, or Italian pair teams. They just need to beat the Kovalevs, right?

I’ve seen a lot of articles and posting on other places from people who claim to be immigration attorneys and I don’t think there’s an unknown loop that only thus team has found


But you can always find a lawyer who will tell you there is. I work in healthcare, and I had a lawyer who tried to get us out of trouble one time by claiming the federal government didn’t have the right to make regulations. Trust me it didn’t work, but it made him money.

 

[CassAgain]

Someone mentioned on some podcast or live stream that Chan and Howe declined to go to Chinese Nebelhorn? If that is true, and even if its not, surely Shin and Nag deserve some grace. I don't know, maybe I have become attached to them because they are Meagan's team, and she has locked in the last few weeks with them, sharing great moments on Insta. I really want her to have a victory, even if idiot is by her side this week.

 

[Vagabond]

Oh, do shut up.

Why are you so rude? And is this how you treat people offline?

While everyone here appreciates the work you put into your many astute posts on rankings, seedings, and the like, I doubt there is anyone here who likes reading things such as what I have quoted above.

 

[Karen-W]

Someone mentioned on some podcast or live stream that Chan and Howe declined to go to Chinese Nebelhorn? If that is true, and even if its not, surely Shin and Nag deserve some grace. I don't know, maybe I have become attached to them because they are Meagan's team, and she has locked in the last few weeks with them, sharing great moments on Insta. I really want her to have a victory, even if idiot is by her side this week.

There was a rumor to that effect that was floated right after the USFS switched the SkAm assignment from ShiNagy to ChanHowe over on Reddit (I saw the screenshot of the claim on X). It never made it over here and my thought at the time was it was awfully convenient timing for that rumor to suddenly surface. I didn't put a lot of credence in it because it didn't gain much traction and never made the rounds. It was so specifically targeted at making ChanHowe into the "bad guys" and it's not as if ShiNagy weren't also beaten, soundly, by McBark at John Nicks IPC and that PlaFern also put up a higher score that same week at Kinoshita Group Cup.

Having said that, I think it was discussed here after the news of Spencer's enlistment in WCAP that perhaps ChanHowe were unable to compete in China given his status as an active member of the US Army. I suppose it is possible that the USFS asked after John Nicks IPC if ChanHowe wanted to go to China and they declined because of the Army consideration and the lack of preparation time they'd have.

 

[Ross H]

Meagan Duhamel was a guest on the Runthrough’s live show yesterday. She said there was a competition to determine the team who went to China and that S/N won by ‘a million points’. That may not be an exact quote, but the sentiment was similar. She also said it was basically a fluke competition based on how they’ve trained and competed before and since. I hope they crush it tonight to help squish some of this narrative.

 

[Karen-W]

Meagan Duhamel was a guest on the Runthrough’s live show yesterday. She said there was a competition to determine the team who went to China and that S/N won by ‘a million points’. That may not be an exact quote, but the sentiment was similar. She also said it was basically a fluke competition based on how they’ve trained and competed before and since. I hope they crush it tonight to help squish some of this narrative.

Now that's a narrative that is factually untrue. They were certainly better at GPdF but their score there also wouldn't have secured the 3rd spot. I think their IceChallenge score would have done the trick and their Golden Spin score certainly would have, but those competitions were nearly 2 & 3 months after the OQE where they didn't do well - and they didn't do well at John Nicks IPC in early September either, nor did they do well at Glacier Falls in early August.

 

[Sarah]

S/N skated terribly at the Olympic qualifier. C/H could have skated better, but they’re also wildly inconsistent and have had wonderful short programs this season and some less than good free skates. And whatever disaster this week’s short program was. And who knows what they looked like at the USFS internal competition IF they competed.

P/F (who I adore and will forever root for) are also…not consistent and could just as easily been a disaster and not qualified a 3rd spot.

Let’s be honest. USFS could have sent any team on any day and gotten the same result. They could have sent the exact same team on a different day and gotten a wildly different result. As someone who actually loves US pairs (there, I said it, and pairs is my favorite discipline), I don’t know that the US actually needs the 3rd spot…

 

[Rukia]

S/N skated terribly at the Olympic qualifier. C/H could have skated better, but they’re also wildly inconsistent and have had wonderful short programs this season and some less than good free skates. And whatever disaster this week’s short program was. And who knows what they looked like at the USFS internal competition IF they competed.

P/F (who I adore and will forever root for) are also…not consistent and could just as easily been a disaster and not qualified a 3rd spot.

Let’s be honest. USFS could have sent any team on any day and gotten the same result. They could have sent the exact same team on a different day and gotten a wildly different result. As someone who actually loves US pairs (there, I said it, and pairs is my favorite discipline), I don’t know that the US actually needs the 3rd spot…

a nuanced take in my us pairs thread?? surely there's some law against this

 

[Sarah]

a nuanced take in my us pairs thread?? surely there's some law against this

There I go being logical again! I’ll work on that before I post next…!

 

[Private Citizen]

FWIW, I like Shin and Nagy, and I'm at Karen's hatred of them. It's almost Esta-esque in its extremism, to the point that I look forward to it. I've developed Pavlovian conditioning of needing to read a snark from Karen every time their names are mentioned. We need a Shin-Nagy / Chan-Howe fight board, like the old Tara-Michelle fight board .

I'm rooting for Shin and Nagy to make the Olympic team and for the snarks to continue .Maybe we'll even get a moment .

 

[Karen-W]

FWIW, I like Shin and Nagy, and I'm at Karen's hatred of them. It's almost Esta-esque in its extremism, to the point that I look forward to it. I've developed Pavlovian conditioning of needing to read a snark from Karen every time their names are mentioned. We need a Shin-Nagy / Chan-Howe fight board, like the old Tara-Michelle fight board .

I'm rooting for Shin and Nagy to make the Olympic team and for the snarks to continue .Maybe we'll even get a moment .

Maybe I've just transferred all of my hatred toward obvious USFS favoritism from Jason Brown onto ShiNagy in the past season.

 

[Vagabond]

Even when Congress is functioning properly (which it isn't right now), it acts legislation to naturalize citizens only in exceptional circumstances, such as for humanitarian reasons or, especially when normal pathways to citizenship have been unavailable. Congress does not expedite citizenship for talented athletes merely because they are talented athletes. Martina Navratilova is a very well known example of an athlete who had to go through the conventional citizenship process. And Navratilova was a defector, which Efimova certainly is not.

 

[livetoskate]

My fancam of Emily Chan and Spencer Howe's FS:

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