U.S. Men 2025-26 Discussion - Quad God and the Mere Mortals

Jackie Wong's throwing Kazanecki's name into the Olympic mix after today's bronze at the JGPF.


Not sure I think there's much chance of that happening. Even if he did wind up on the podium at Nats, the USFS would have to send him out to get the Sr CTES mins in January and we know they passed right on over Ilia in 2022 for the Olympic team, which is what I would expect to happen to Lucius this year.
Agreed. If USFS wanted him to be in consideration, they would have sent him to a Challenger or Senior B to get the CTES minimums. That they did not shows that he's not in the Olympic mix.

Comparing to the Malinin 2022 situation, Malinin was more dominant at the junior level and USFS did send him to a 2021 Challenger pre-nationals where he got his tech minimums for 4CC/Olympics, but didn't reach the TES needed for Worlds. Also, the domestic field that Malinin faced was more difficult with 3 U.S. men making the GP Final in the 2021-2022 season. You'd think that with the weaker U.S. field this year, USFS would have been interested in sending their age-eligible JGPF qualifier to a senior event, but they didn't.

Jackie Wong seems to get a bit optimistic whenever there's something that it would make logical sense to do, but that USFS has shown no evidence of wanting to do. For example, he also claimed that Shin/Nagy would be replaced at the OQE after almost every American team beat them at John Nicks. It sounds like wishful thinking to me.
 
Lucius Kazanecki very likely secured himself a ticket to Jr. Worlds! I would not be surprised neither if he manages to jump his way onto the podium in St. Louis and I'd wonder if the USFSA would then send him to get his minima for Worlds. USFSA did it for Torgy in 2023, so it should do it for Lucius if this comes to fruition.

I'd say that the 2nd ticket to Jr. Worlds goes to whoever between Patrick Blackwell and Caleb Farrington finishes higher (presumably wins) at Nationals. Personally, I enjoy Nicholas Brooks a lot, so if he manages to pull an upset in St. Louis, I'd have no objections to him being sent!

Your thoughts...
 
Lucius Kazanecki very likely secured himself a ticket to Jr. Worlds! I would not be surprised neither if he manages to jump his way onto the podium in St. Louis and I'd wonder if the USFSA would then send him to get his minima for Worlds. USFSA did it for Torgy in 2023, so it should do it for Lucius if this comes to fruition.

I'd say that the 2nd ticket to Jr. Worlds goes to whoever between Patrick Blackwell and Caleb Farrington finishes higher (presumably wins) at Nationals. Personally, I enjoy Nicholas Brooks a lot, so if he manages to pull an upset in St. Louis, I'd have no objections to him being sent!

Your thoughts...
I can't see Brooks being sent to Jr Worlds over either Blackwell or Farrington.

It's possible they could send Kazanecki out to get his Sr CTES mins if he winds up on the podium at Nats (they also sent Ilia out for the Worlds TES mins in Feb 2022 after he wound up on the podium at Nats), but it feels to me like his coaching team is taking a slightly slower approach with him than they did with Ilia in 2021. I have a hard time thinking the USFS wouldn't have gladly sent him to a Sr B last month if he wanted one, especially since he did compete at Easterns just to run his senior programs again even with the bye to Nats already secured. That makes me think he is going to remain strictly junior internationally this season and Worlds isn't on his radar.
 
CS Golden Spin of Zagreb results:

5 Jacob SANCHEZ USA 216.59 10 [75.31] 3 [141.28] - 198 ISU WS points
6 Daniel MARTYNOV USA 216.34 2 [84.06] 9 [132.28] - 178 ISU WS points

Copying out Jacob's quotes to Golden Skate after his FS: https://x.com/goldenskate/status/1997026062492950577
Jacob: I’m good. I’m really happy with how this season is going. I made it to a lot of cool places, so I’m really excited and I’m looking forward to the rest of the year. I’m just trying to keep progressing my skating and be the best that I can.

On which cool places he got to see

I mean, I went to China for my Grand Prix, that was the most memorable. I also went to Austria and Bratislava for the first time. Now I’m here in Zagreb and I didn’t know I was going to be here until like three weeks before. So I’m kind of a short notice, but I’m happy to be able to compete in my third Challenger this year.

On today’s skate:

I mean, today was not my best this season, but I’m really happy that even with the initial mistake, I was able to keep myself together for the rest of the program. I can feel it’s difficult now with a different pacing than in juniors. It’s weird now having all these competitions so close together in the later part of the season, so I’m kind of adjusting to it.

I’m actually happy that I made it out here. The last two weeks were hard. I got the flu, I was off for six days and I couldn’t do anything. I didn’t get a lot of run-throughs in before this competition. So I’m honestly happy that I was able to make it here because I was thinking about withdrawing last week.

On the Grand Prix and Junior Grand Prix going on right now:

I mean, it was awesome to watch them. I woke up this morning, I was watching the free skate of the junior men and all six guys, they’re so strong and I would kill to be there right now. I kept getting all my photo memories from last year and then now that the final is happening, I’m like, oh, I wish I was there.

But I’m really happy for Rio, Minkyu and happy for Lucius. Also Denis, he made so much progress. It’s really cool to see him competing at the final representing a smaller federation. And also tomorrow, my best friend, Ilia, is competing. So I’m really excited for that. I really believe in him and his strong mind.

Next week he is having a show in Philadelphia with Ilia, Alysa and Isabeau. He’s very excited and he’s very excited for that.
 
This is an interesting article about Ilia's vision for quints, his training for the program with multiple quads, his view of the FS scores for the GPF, and the value of quads. (The emphases were included in the original article.)


About practicing quads:
If last year he only landed his free with seven quads cleanly “a few times in three months”, going into the 2025 edition of the event, he had at least one clean skate each week.

Repetition is one of the keys to Malinin’s incredible jumping ability and stamina: The skater revealed he does a run-through of a seven-quad free program every day in training.

“I do skate a full free skate every day. Some days I can skip a few quads or go for all of them, so it really depends how I'm feeling but, overall, I've been doing them for a few years now, so I understand where my sweet spot for all the quad jumps is.”

About FS scores for the GPF:
“I was impressed with the score that I got. I honestly thought that I was going to get lower,” the skater said. “From how I felt, the second score was lacking in my opinion. There's a lot more that I can do and that was like a jump competition for me.”

About the value of the quads:
While these elements are costing Malinin points, oddly enough, he is advocating for them to be given a higher value in the figure skating rule book.

“That's just a better way to push people to try to improve,” Malinin said. “Right now, the jumps are the most valuable elements, so everyone's going to try to master their jumps and they might not necessarily work on everything else just because they might be able to sacrifice it with adding another quad, for example.

“But if we increase everything to be a similar level, then everyone will try to work on the spins and the steps and the footwork so that everything is worth taking the risk to work on it.”
 
I was very happy to see Lucius earn the bronze at the JGPF! He seems to be a pretty consistent competitor. And he did two quads, plus triple axel. The rest of his skating needs major work, which I know he is doing. He is a threat for the Nationals podium given how inconsistent so many top U.S. men are at the moment. Guys like Torgy and Max should be able to easily defeat him, but they are both quite inconsistent with the jump content.
 
This is an interesting article about Ilia's vision for quints, his training for the program with multiple quads, his view of the FS scores for the GPF, and the value of quads. (The emphases were included in the original article.)


About practicing quads:




About FS scores for the GPF:


About the value of the quads:

I thought this was an incredible perspective for Ilia to have and also very valuable for the FS community. Ilia just made history for completing 7 quads successfully, putting the cherry on top of the quad revolution, and he rightfully has a lot of attention because of it. It would be very easy for Ilia to use the spotlight and continue to push for jumps given how it helps secure his position at the top. He could have complained about the base value for the 4A and quints being too low (and it's true for the 4A) and the loss of a jump combination starting from next year, because these things will eat into his technical dominance. Instead, he is supporting the increased BV of spins and steps and acknowledges that his PCS was too high.

He's skating's superstar, and he's taking that status to make statements about how jumps shouldn't be everything and there is need for a more well-rounded sport and judging system, even though that will not necessarily help him and would probably favor some of his main rivals. This really impresses me.
 
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The last photo in Ilia's GPF post is him doing 2 quad axels in sequence in practice. :eek: :lol:

 
The last photo in Ilia's GPF post is him doing 2 quad axels in sequence in practice. :eek: :lol:

Stop teasing Ilia...:D
 
From Joe Klein in August:
"... Thank you to everyone for the support, and I hope to start my season this Fall!"​
It's the closing thought of his update on overcoming some injury issues.​
Nov. 17:
Joseph Klein is recovered enough to be competing with his Northwestern University figure skating team now while studying for an environmental policy & political science double major - very good article published on October 16:
Unfortunately he will not be competing at Mids this week (not listed in the Senior Men SP starting order).
Joe's detailed injury update today (Dec. 13, 2025): https://www.instagram.com/p/DSOBgsdkq3x/
Excerpt:
... So as of last week, I had my second of three surgeries (this one to repair my right hip), and am looking towards my third and final at the end of January. The new road to recovery will leave me ready to compete next season if all goes as planned, but in the meantime I’m still keeping my head & heart in skating by managing and contributing choreography + coaching to the Northwestern University team.
 
Not long after Jared Sedlis, 20, made his ISU Challenger Series debut at Cranberry Cup in August (his then home rink in Norwood, MA), he moved to Claremont, California to begin his freshman year at Pomona College:
Excerpts:
Sedlis split his gap year between his home club in Boston and the Washington Figure Skating Club. His coaches in the D.C. area included Roman Skorniakov and Tatiana Malinina, whose son, Ilia, is the reigning U.S. and world men’s figure skating champion.
“Getting to skate with Ilia was a really cool opportunity, to watch the way he trains,” Sedlis says. “He’s very nice as well.”
Sedlis found training around top skaters very motivating. “It keeps your spirits high,” he says. “These are people who really understand you and understand your experiences.”
As his gap year came to a close, Sedlis enrolled at Pomona, alma mater of his father, James Sedlis ’88. He hasn’t chosen a major yet but is leaning toward philosophy, politics and economics, international relations or psychological science.
“I really value the interdisciplinary aspects of a liberal arts college,” he says, adding that he was drawn to Pomona because it is part of a larger consortium. He’s also excited to be near Los Angeles, which has a long and storied figure skating tradition.
“One of my biggest goals is to push myself as far as I can with skating,” he says. “And as long as I’m still passionate about it and have opportunities available to me, I want to continue.”
 
Not long after Jared Sedlis, 20, made his ISU Challenger Series debut at Cranberry Cup in August (his then home rink in Norwood, MA), he moved to Claremont, California to begin his freshman year at Pomona College:
Excerpts:
I'm a Sagehen too! I was a mathematical economics major...
 
His self-awareness with his skating is so 💯
“I was impressed with the score that I got. I honestly thought that I was going to get lower,” the skater said. “From how I felt, the second score was lacking in my opinion. There's a lot more that I can do and that was like a jump competition for me.”
After this great quad and/or quint race I have no doubt (and I keep saying it) that he will become a more complete competitive skater.
 
Cross-posting from his fan thread... Ilia was at Great Park Ice this week, working with Shae-Lynn Bourne - she and Raf both spoke to a CBS LA sports reporter (posted by Great Park Ice):

At the Skating Club of Boston's Nationals Send-Off show yesterday (12/18) evening, Max Naumov performed his free skate (video by Kat Cornetta):
 
I was doing a little reading and came across something interesting. It's long been assumed that Lucius Kazanecki does not have the tech minimums required for the Olympics and that he's missed his window to get them. But I think he actually already meets the requirements. I'm not saying he should be selected (I don't think he's ready), I'm just saying I think he has technically already satisfied the minimum technical requirements which means he's more or less already in the selection pool.

There's three documents at play that I could find.

ISU Communication No. 2732 which states that CTES must be obtained at senior-level events but that explicitly applies to ISU championship events, not the Olympic Games.
The required Combined Total Elements Score (SP/RD + FS/FD) to participate in Senior ISU
Championships (ISU European Figure Skating Championships, ISU Four Continents Figure
Skating Championships and ISU World Figure Skating Championships) can only be obtained
in Senior International Competitions.

ISU "Road to Milano-Cortina 2026" website has no such senior-level stipulation, just that the score must be come from an ISU-recognized competition. The Euros/4CC CTES minimum score must be satisfied, but the source of the score is less restrictive by my reading. There is no senior stipulation. Emphasis mine, also I struck through a word I think does not belong and really confuses the paragraph.
In order to participate in the Olympic Winter Games, the Skaters must have achieved the Combined Total Elements Score set for the 2026 ISU European and Four Continents Figure Skating Championships or in an ISU recognized International Competition during the 2024/25 or 2025/26 seasons.

I wish I could find a more official document rather than their informational website, but I cant seem to find an "ISU Communication" style document for the Olympic games, just this website which suggests to me that he has indeed met the requirements.

ISU Communication No. 2754 regarding the Olympic Games re-iterates the minimum scores but not the source of those scores. That is a communication/clarification on the Team Event, I wish I could find a similar one for Singles but haven't been able to. That document makes zero mention of the word "senior", I don't think the Winter Olympic Games cares about such distinctions, just the scores and ages of the skaters. The aforementioned web page for the Games also never uses the word "senior" anywhere.

Again, I'm not saying that he should be sent. I'm just saying that I think he has met tech minimums and is fully eligible to be sent. And remember, even though JGPF gave him a huge boost in the selection pool criteria, that only qualifies him for consideration and that score doesn't represent a ranking that must be followed in their final selection. The top 5 using those numbers get into the selection pool, along with other inclusion criteria (I think top 5 nats and top 24 ISU season rankings). If he continues his run of good luck and somehow absolutely crushes it at nats, well, that's just going to make their decision and the fan arguments a lot more exciting.

Lastly, this interpretation also opens the door for Patrick Blackwell. Though, his going to Jr Nats muddies the waters as he's not in direct head-to-head competition with the other Olympic hopefuls. I do think he has a higher scoring potential than Lucius (and other seniors if he lands a 4S at nats), but, he has real consistency problems. But the Olympics aren't about consistency, it's the about shooting for medals and national glory and his higher tech ceiling goes a long way, even if consistency decreases his probability of medaling.

Thus concludes my Ted Talk. I know I'm somewhat of a newcomer to figure skating fandom, but I'm pretty good at parsing rules and my reading of what is publicly available suggests that they're fully eligible.

You might think I actually want this to happen, but honestly nothing would make me happier than sending Max and making his parents proud. 🥹

May the best man win.
 
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ISU "Road to Milano-Cortina 2026" website has no such senior-level stipulation, just that the score must be come from an ISU-recognized competition. The Euros/4CC CTES minimum score must be satisfied, but the source of the score is less restrictive by my reading. There is no senior stipulation. Emphasis mine, also I struck through a word I think does not belong and really confuses the paragraph.

You know, I think the typo proves your point even more, that there may have been additional qualifications and regulations, but they purposefully chose to simplify qualifying for the Olympics.
 
Sorry, but I think it's pretty clear that the score has to be achieved in a senior competition. The Olympics qualifying CTES is the same as for Europeans & 4CCs. Those scores must be achieved in a senior competition. There's no daylight here for the USFS to try and slide Lucius in on his junior CTES score. If he puts himself in the mix at Nationals, then he'll be offered a chance to go earn the Sr CTES mins at Challenge Cup a couple weeks after Nats (and, honestly, I think he should be sent out to get them anyways if he's in the Top 5 at Nats since that could very well put him on the Worlds team).
 
I was doing a little reading and came across something interesting. It's long been assumed that Lucius Kazanecki does not have the tech minimums required for the Olympics and that he's missed his window to get them. But I think he actually already meets the requirements. I'm not saying he should be selected (I don't think he's ready), I'm just saying I think he has technically already satisfied the minimum technical requirements which means he's more or less already in the selection pool.

There's three documents at play that I could find.

ISU Communication No. 2732 which states that CTES must be obtained at senior-level events but that explicitly applies to ISU championship events, not the Olympic Games.


ISU "Road to Milano-Cortina 2026" website has no such senior-level stipulation, just that the score must be come from an ISU-recognized competition. The Euros/4CC CTES minimum score must be satisfied, but the source of the score is less restrictive by my reading. There is no senior stipulation. Emphasis mine, also I struck through a word I think does not belong and really confuses the paragraph.


I wish I could find a more official document rather than their informational website, but I cant seem to find an "ISU Communication" style document for the Olympic games, just this website which suggests to me that he has indeed met the requirements.

ISU Communication No. 2754 regarding the Olympic Games re-iterates the minimum scores but not the source of those scores. That is a communication/clarification on the Team Event, I wish I could find a similar one for Singles but haven't been able to. That document makes zero mention of the word "senior", I don't think the Winter Olympic Games cares about such distinctions, just the scores and ages of the skaters. The aforementioned web page for the Games also never uses the word "senior" anywhere.

Again, I'm not saying that he should be sent. I'm just saying that I think he has met tech minimums and is fully eligible to be sent. And remember, even though JGPF gave him a huge boost in the selection pool criteria, that only qualifies him for consideration and that score doesn't represent a ranking that must be followed in their final selection. The top 5 using those numbers get into the selection pool, along with other inclusion criteria (I think top 5 nats and top 24 ISU season rankings). If he continues his run of good luck and somehow absolutely crushes it at nats, well, that's just going to make their decision and the fan arguments a lot more exciting.

Lastly, this interpretation also opens the door for Patrick Blackwell. Though, his going to Jr Nats muddies the waters as he's not in direct head-to-head competition with the other Olympic hopefuls. I do think he has a higher scoring potential than Lucius (and other seniors if he lands a 4S at nats), but, he has real consistency problems. But the Olympics aren't about consistency, it's the about shooting for medals and national glory and his higher tech ceiling goes a long way, even if consistency decreases his probability of medaling.

Thus concludes my Ted Talk. I know I'm somewhat of a newcomer to figure skating fandom, but I'm pretty good at parsing rules and my reading of what is publicly available suggests that they're fully eligible.

You might think I actually want this to happen, but honestly nothing would make me happier than sending Max and making his parents proud. 🥹

May the best man win.
The way around this rule is that it says it must be the minimum for Euros/4CC. If you then scroll to the rules for that, it makes it clear it must be in senior competitions.

You have to back navigate through several referenced rules to make sense of it though.
 
Why would they take someone who never took part in a senior event if they have Max Naumov or Andrew Torgashev available? Send the juniors to 4CC and let Max and Torgy go to Olympics and Worlds
Because the junior is showing more future promise and neither of those two have ever come close to delivering on the promise they showed at the same age as Lucius. Here's a comparison of their fall scores scores this season - keep in mind, Lucius skating only juniors this fall has had one less jumping pass and no quads in the SP while Torgy or Naumov are on the senior circuit.

Torgashev -
CS Nebelhorn - 239.54
GPdF - 233.36
NHK - 212.01

Naumov -
CS Lombardia - 223.43
GPdF - 226.74
IceChallenge Graz - 246.70
CS Tallinn - 223.04

Kazanecki -
JGP Ankara - 202.67
JGP Abu Dhabi - 219.63
JGPF - 225.85

And, just for reference, I'll throw in Tomoki Hiwatashi's top 3 scores from this fall -
CS Kinoshita Group Cup - 236.71
CS Trialeti Trophy - 237.11
CoC - 245.71
SCI - 230.58

The USFS has stated they are looking at scoring trends and head-to-head matchups. Kazanecki has demonstrated a clear upward scoring trend while Torgy & Naumov have not. I see no reason why, if Lucius beats them and skates well at Nationals, to not send him out to earn the Sr CTES mins and, potentially, name him to the Olympic team.
 
Why would they take someone who never took part in a senior event if they have Max Naumov or Andrew Torgashev available? Send the juniors to 4CC and let Max and Torgy go to Olympics and Worlds
I trired as hard as I could to make it clear that I was postulating about who could be selected rather than who would or should be selected. I found it to be a very interesting interpretation.
 
We'll see what happens at Nationals. That's gonna be the first event where Kasanecki can be compared to the senior skaters
 
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You know, I think the typo proves your point even more, that there may have been additional qualifications and regulations, but they purposefully chose to simplify qualifying for the Olympics.
I believe this to be the case. I think the IOC wants to avoid any artificial "wait your turn" barriers.
 
I believe this to be the case. I think the IOC wants to avoid any "wait your turn" barriers.
Nope, the IOC defers to each sports federation in determining qualification procedures & rules. That's why we're still seeing 12-year-old skateboarders in the Summer Olympics while gymnastics has raised the age minimums for their sports.
 
I trired as hard as I could to make it clear that I was postulating about who could be selected rather than who would or should be selected. I found it to be a very interesting interpretation.
I understand what you mean and I agree. Yes he can be selected but all I want to say is that Olympic Games is not JGP Ankara... it's a different level and in my opinion someone who has no experience on that level should not have his senior premiere at the most importand event of all no matter what the junior scoring says. Not if you have other options. Neither of all possible men who will get the 2 spots besides Ilia will have a chance to win a medal. So my choice would be Max. He doesn't have the highest score but consistent around 223 and he proved to be a fighter no matter what life is throwing at him
 

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