U.S. Men 2024-25 news & updates

Frankly, the younger US men have not proven to be as consistent as Jason is. They have had every opportunity to knock Jason out of his US #2 spot but they have not done it. After Ilia and Jason, the rest of the US men are wildly inconsistent. Jason earned his Grand Prix assignments fair and square. The younger US men failed to do so. Moreover, Jason is the reason that the US can send 3 men to Worlds this season. It takes more than one man to make a team. Ilia and Jason are the only reliable members of the US Men's team.
 
NBC Sports has uploaded Ilia’s SCI24 FS from yesterday’s broadcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrJa8m7f2ec

From USFS’ recap:
With his second Grand Prix gold of the season, the reigning World champion secured his place at the ISU Grand Prix of Figure Skating Final 2024 in Grenoble, France, in December, where he will look to defend his title. He becomes the first man to sweep Skate America and Skate Canada International in the same season in 25 years.
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layman said:
Frankly, the younger US men have not proven to be as consistent as Jason is. They have had every opportunity to knock Jason out of his US #2 spot but they have not done it. After Ilia and Jason, the rest of the US men are wildly inconsistent. Jason earned his Grand Prix assignments fair and square. The younger US men failed to do so. Moreover, Jason is the reason that the US can send 3 men to Worlds this season. It takes more than one man to make a team. Ilia and Jason are the only reliable members of the US Men's team.
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Yes, because Lucas has had so many opportunities... He's in his second senior season, his first being cut short due to boot/blade issues and then injury.

Jason has been consistent at Nats & Worlds. I cannot say that he has demonstrated any more consistency in the fall over the past two seasons as any of the other US men. YMMV.

My point is and has always remained that I'm not sure these guys have ever been truly challenged to "carry the mantle" and hold onto those three spots. With Ilia & Jason doing the heavy lifting, they've been satisfied to coast along with a free ticket to Worlds and not worry about having to deliver when it well and truly matters. The only time any of those other guys has stepped up and performed anywhere close to their capabilities was 2022 when we had Vincent and two guys who had never been to Worlds (Camden & Ilia). That's the last time that all three of our guys finished in the top 10.

And let's not even discuss the questionable choice of paying Jason to continue competing instead of funneling that money into additional competitive opportunities for some of the up-and-coming skaters we have.
 
Rukia said:
Jason has been consistent and was a reliable member of the US men's team. Whether it stays that way this season remains to be seen. He has all season though, so he may get his jumps in a better place. 🤷‍♀️
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Yep. I feel like we’re going to have Ashley Wagner arguments all over again where people will insist that past seasons’ performances are much more telling than what is currently happening.

And yes, it’s still early, but I hope either Brown regains form or USFS selects someone else for Worlds.
 
GO Andrew & Camden in Angers this week! :cheer2:

Torgashev shared an Instagram story clip yesterday captioned “Sunday skating with Happy Kirk” showing [Haugeto] doing a handstand on the ice. :D (assume this means Kirk is back in Cali to work on his 3A with Team Raf?)
 
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Karen-W said:
Except that your "domestic Senior B" is actually an "international Challenger" and he has, after Ilia, the highest SB of the US men.
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Ok, a domestic Challenger, which had exactly 3 men not from the USA. Let’s see him skate like that in an international field.
 
First, I don't think it's been confirmed that USFS has been paying Jason to do the GP series, so far it's just a rumor. Sure, some rumors turn out to be true. And some don't.

Second, Camden, Andrew, Jimmy, Tomoki, Max have all had opportunities to beat Jason at Nats (and for Camden and Andrew, at Worlds) and haven't. They, along with Lucas now, have had the opportunity to medal or at least put out a good performance on the GP, at events where Jason hasn't even been competing. We all know how they did. That Camden could finish 5th at a (watered down post-Oly) Worlds, then fail to make the World team the next season and the season after that finish 20th shows how wildly inconsistent he is.

Suggesting that the U.S. men not named Jason or Ilia would skate better if they had more pressure on them seems a bit illogical. Any skater at Worlds or a GP wants to do their best and make a name for themselves so they can continue to get assignments (which can also provide prize money), regardless of who else is competing. And as we've all noted, none of the U.S. men not named Jason or Ilia have stepped up.

We'll see what happens at Nats.
 
her grace said:
Ok, a domestic Challenger, which had exactly 3 men not from the USA. Let’s see him skate like that in an international field.
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You keep trying to slough it off like it was nothing. The highest score from any man on the NQS was 230.xx (Paniot & Endo) and 227.xx (Xie). So, no, the score wasn't inconsequential. I don't know what the rationale was for the USFS not sending him to a Challenger in September (his hand was wrapped at SkAm, so I'm guessing some sort of minor injury) and I do think it was a disservice if it wasn't injury-related.

We're not going to agree on this - and before Jason skated like absolute a$$ and well below his previous capabilities, I wasn't calling for him to give up his second GP. I didn't say that after Shanghai and gave him the benefit of the doubt. But I see no point in giving him that benefit of doubt when his jumps are very clearly deteriorating before our eyes. His technical gas tank is running on E and having him out there competing does neither he nor the rest of the US men any favors in the long run. All I know is that none of the other US men should be taking for granted that there will be a 3rd Olympic spot - and if we wind up with 2 spots next year, there's no way that they don't go to Ilia & Jason - the USFS has demonstrated they're willing to pay a pretty nice sum of $$ to keep him competing and they'll reward him with a 3rd (2nd undeserved) Olympic berth.
 
I just wonder if age and wear have taken out Brown's ability to get the 3A back on track, because, to me, he looked uncomfortable out there. Which his post Skate Canada comments put in context. But, then again, I never expected Buttle to be back to his best after he had a fracture in his back, and he was and went on to win Worlds. (Before anyone asks, no, I don't expect Brown to win Worlds.)
 
kwanfan1818 said:
I just wonder if age and wear have taken out Brown's ability to get the 3A back on track, because, to me, he looked uncomfortable out there. Which his post Skate Canada comments put in context.
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I think that’s entirely possible and it remains to be seen what kind of shape he’s in by nationals. He’s past the age where it’s reasonable to expect that he’ll be in peak condition year round, so it’s reasonable to say he’s not in his best shape right now, but not reasonable for anyone (including him at this point, honestly) to assume they know exactly what his peak condition will end up being. He’ll keep putting in the work, and we’ll see how he looks at nationals.

But his programs are new and have challenging choreography, and he always gets more comfortable with them with more he performs throughout the season. Plus he’s likely still figuring out what jump layout is going to work best for him, like a lot of other skaters at this point in the season. A lot of skaters don’t peak on the GP, so I’m not sure what the justification is besides “he’s older and some people are sick of him” for taking away opportunities that he earned to get some competitive mileage at a high level before the second half of the season. If he was clearly out of his depth relative to every other skater, sure, maybe. But right now he looks like…a lot of the other U.S. men. The reason he’s got two GP spots and they don’t is because he earned two GP spots and they didn’t. They’ve all got a chance to change that next season if they want.
 
The US men have had lots of chances at 4CC, Jason and Ilia usually skip this competition.
And Jacob Sanchez is senior eligible. Although, I do think Jacob should try for the US junior title and go to junior worlds.
 
4CC is being held later than usual this season - Feb. 19-23 in Seoul; Junior Worlds dates are Feb. 25-Mar. 2, 2025 in Sofia, Bulgaria Debrecen, Hungary, so I assume Jacob most likely will focus on competing in the latter (even if he gets the 4CC minimum score in his CS debut at Tallinn Trophy next month).

ETA:

Ilia is already listed on Art on Ice's website for the 6-15 February 2025 tour in Switzerland: https://www.artonice.com/en/program/
 
Jason’s planning to go to NHK:
www.instagram.com

Jason Brown on Instagram: "Rocky start, but they say that’s how diamonds are made… or something like that?!? 😉 If you can’t tell by my face, I really loved being back out on #gpfigure ice! Thanks @skate_canada, @isufigureskating, @cbc, and all the v

12K likes, 151 comments - jasonbskates on October 28, 2024: "Rocky start, but they say that’s how diamonds are made… or something like that?!? 😉 If you can’t tell by my face, I really loved being back out on #gpfigure ice! Thanks @skate_canada, @isufigureskating, @cbc, and all the volunteers &...
www.instagram.com www.instagram.com
"... We live, learn, and keep moving forward… Next stop NHK Trophy 🎌⛸️"
 
perhaps, that said ISU judges wouldn’t be giving that kind of PCs to Lucas or Camden or Andrew for the same content, rightly or wrongly
 
Theatregirl1122 said:
I don’t know how you count having an opportunity to beat Jason at nationals if his scores are held up so he beats them whether they skate better or not.
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Who do you think skated better and should have beaten Jason at Nats? Who among the group I listed should we have sent to Worlds who would have finished higher than Jason? We know how Camden placed, and I don't think home cooking for Jason was to blame.
 
I think if USFS were to focus on developing young talent back in 2023 or 2024 then they would have to risk losing that third spot by giving that youngster a chance. Remember 2011-13 worlds for US men? They lost one spot in 2011 and didn’t get it back until 2014
 
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Debbie S said:
Who do you think skated better and should have beaten Jason at Nats? Who among the group I listed should we have sent to Worlds who would have finished higher than Jason?
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Naumov should have been sent.

Here's the problem with US Nats judging... Max, Camden & Torgy were ridiculously lowballed on PCS in the SP. Max should have had more than a 0.70 lead on Jason in the SP. And both Camden & Torgy should have also been ahead of Jason in the SP.

Then, in the FS, the judges gave Ilia some ridiculously high PCS compared to Max, Camden & Torgy - had the judges been more reasonable on the PCS for all four of those guys, it would have enabled them to also be more honest with Jason's PCS. Camden really should have won silver at Nats and while I can see an argument either way for Jason or Max, I know that most of the folks around here, myself included, thought Jason was held up and bronze should have gone to Max.
Debbie S said:
We know how Camden placed, and I don't think home cooking for Jason was to blame.
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jlai said:
I think if USFS were to focus on developing young talent then they will have to risk losing that third spot by giving that youngster a chance. Remember 2011-13 worlds for US men? They lost one spot in 2011 and didn’t get it back until 2014
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I think it's better to risk doing that in the early part of an Olympic cycle than try to run out the clock on a guy who has never had a quad and whose 3A was always a concern even at his peak.

We also know how Camden placed in 2022 when we didn't have two other guys on the team who were all but certain to skate well enough to keep the three spots. He went to Montpellier on very short notice - remember, Nathan didn't withdraw until a week before. Camden had the benefit of being in Colorado Springs and knowing that Vincent was struggling, he knew that Ilia was just coming up from juniors and, between the three of them, they had to, somehow, produce the results to keep the three spots. He dug deep and contributed to the team.

Unfortunately, I don't think that either Torgy or Camden have allowed themselves to face the same mental pressure of "produce or lose the effin' spot" in either 2023 or 2024. They're sort of like the Russian men during the last decade - perfectly satisfied to just show up and "whatever." It's all rather shameless, to be honest. I'd like to believe, though, that if it got down to brass tacks, they'd find the mental fortitude and wherewithal to fight like hell and stop FAFOing.

Ultimately, I'd rather we have dropped to 2 spots for 2024 and/or 2025 than keep begging Jason to compete and keep the 3rd spot for the men. I don't see it as being helpful in the long term to the men's team. I may not be the biggest fan of Isabeau Levito's skating, but I sure as heck respect her grit as a competitor. I have yet to be fully convinced of Amber's competitive grit, but I really appreciated her determination (along with Isabeau) to produce the necessary results to get the 3rd women's spot back last March. It's the same mentality that Ashley Cain & Tim LeDuc had in 2019 when they were the only US pairs team and they went in saying "it's on us and us alone to get that 2nd spot back." Those skaters came through when it mattered - they were forced to dig deep for the ENTIRE program in a way that these guys who we keep railing about their inconsistency (fairly so, I'll absolutely concede) have never faced because Jason is still around (sort of).

I hate this circular argument in defense of Jason continuing to be on the team because it doesn't actually put any of those other guys through the crucible and they seem perfectly satisfied with vying for the 1 Worlds (or, potentially, Olympic) spot available when 2 of the 3 we have are occupied by Ilia & Jason. What happens when Jason's body just can't hold up and carry on? We know what will happen if we drop to 2 spots next year, those spots are still going to have Ilia & Jason's names on them.

We already saw what happened in 2022 when Ilia came in gangbusters and won SILVER at Nats, beating Jason not by one spot but by TWO spots, and he still got left off the Olympic team. The USFS used the BOW to support naming Jason to the team, despite it being VERY clear that Ilia was the future star he has indeed become.

And what happens next year? What if Lucas gets the quad and 3a consistent? What if Patrick (who will be senior age-eligible next season) continues to strengthen himself on the technical and has a 2-3 quads & a 3a that are consistent the way Ilia's were in 2022 (which is to say, good enough to hit 75% of the time)? What if Jacob whose 3a is looking VERY consistent now comes in with a quad next season? Do any of those guys have a realistic chance of pushing Jason out of the way? What if two of them push Jason into pewter again at Nats?

You want to know what happens? The USFS' International Committee goes behind their super-secret closed doors and Jason gets the text 30 minutes later that he's going to his third Olympics. Meanwhile, the guys who beat him who are all still teenagers just coming into their own as seniors are left watching Milano-Cortina from their sofas. Oh, but, the silver medalist will, for sure, be thrown the bone of being named to the Worlds team over Jason because... Well, yeah, we know Jason won't be going to Prague in March. We've seen this play out once before. I'm not super-tied to Camden, Max or Torgy - I'm more concerned with the next generation and how we are selling their development short - or do we think Jason can help us keep 3 spots through 2030?

FWIW - I am willing to give Jason some benefit of the doubt that right now he's dealing with some undisclosed injury or equipment issue (which was what Kurt Browning mentioned on today's TSL Skate Canada review) and once he gets it sorted out his jumps will improve. But if it doesn't get sorted out by Nats? I see no benefit to the long-term US men's program in propping him up should he be out-skated by at least 2 other men.
 
Debbie S said:
Who do you think skated better and should have beaten Jason at Nats? Who among the group I listed should we have sent to Worlds who would have finished higher than Jason? We know how Camden placed, and I don't think home cooking for Jason was to blame.
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Where did I say any of them would have done better at worlds? I said they out skated him at nationals. You’re saying they’ve had opportunities to out skate him at nationals. They did and weren’t scored fairly.

If the second spot is reserved for Jason, why should anyone care if Jason saves it? “Saving 3 spots for the US” is irrelevant when only one is available, which would be exactly the same number of spots as if he wasn’t skating.

I think skaters should stay in as long as they WANT (key word) and other skaters need to step up to beat them. But if other skaters aren’t scored fairly, that point is no longer valid.
 
I was at Nats and thought the judging was fair. Max did have a fall in the FS (and beat Jason in the SP when Jason had a fall). We all know skating is subjective and we also know scoring isn't just about the jumps (people seemed to agree with that when Kevin won the FS at SA....). I'm sure just as many people agree with Jason's GOEs and PCS as those who say they are too high. If everyone agreed, this board would be boring.

But I reject the notion that the judges won't let anyone beat Jason...see 2022 Nats (or 2018, for that matter)....and yes, I do think the decision to send Jason to the Olys was correct, based on the published criteria. If you want USFS to be fair and transparent to the skaters, then you should want them to follow their own guidelines. Worlds is different, they almost always follow Nats order (although they don't have to) and they sent Ilia, that was also fair.

I also reject the notion that Camden, Max, Torgy, etc, aren't skating well b/c they're discouraged they won't beat Jason or b/c Jason is there to get the max spots (which kind of contradict each other but whatever)...that's not how skaters approach comps. I'm sure Camden trained hard for Montreal and was hoping to at least match his 2022 placement. But we know he's inconsistent (and a bit of a head case, honestly) so his placement shouldn't have been a shock.

I saw Max in practice at SA. 4S is still inconsistent, I saw more pops and stumbles than clean landings. 3A is also a little sketchy. I assume that's how he practices at home. His comp performances weren't a shock (and different judging panels and all that, but his total score was lower than Jason's at SCI).

As we know, skating is subjective and like it or not, performance/placement in int'l comps influences Nats scoring, b/c in a competitive sport, judges want skaters who can compete well when the pressure is on. The group of men we're discussing, with the exception of Lucas, have all had plenty of opportunities to distinguish themselves internationally and haven't. Camden and Torgy have both bombed at Worlds, and it's not like it was their first senior season. I'm sure USFS didn't expect a lot from Lucas at SA, he's still gaining experience and I'm glad he got another Challenger.

Quads and 3As are hard. Very few skaters can land them well consistently and that's part of what makes watching Nathan, Ilia, Yuzuru, Shoma, Yuma so exciting. Jason has chosen to focus on other elements that can boost his score in other ways. It's a strategy, just like Ilia's 4A.

As I said upthread, we'll see what happens at Nats. I'm not quite ready to declare Jason's 3A "gone".
 
US MEN SB currently (over 200)

Ilia Malinin 312
Lucas Broussard 246
Jimmy Ma 236
Jacob Sanchez 229
Camden Pulkinen 226
Andrew Torgashev 224
Patrick Blackwell 221
Jason Brown 218
Maxim Naumov 216
Joseph Klein 210
Liam Kapeikis 208
Daniel Martynov 207
Yaroslav Paniot 206
Goku Endo 203
 
haribobo said:
US MEN SB currently (over 200)
...
Joseph Klein 210.79 [6th in Nice]
Liam Kapeikis 208.93 [7th in Nice]
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Joe Klein's post-CS Trophy Metropole Nice post:
www.instagram.com

Joe Klein on Instagram: "So happy with how my first Challenger Series event in Nice, France went! It was so fun to perform my new programs with such a great crowd and achieve some personal best scores! Thank you @risportskates and @johnwilsonblades

965 likes, 56 comments - joeskates_ on October 24, 2024: "So happy with how my first Challenger Series event in Nice, France went! It was so fun to perform my new programs with such a great crowd and achieve some personal best scores! Thank you @risportskates and @johnwilsonblades for the...
www.instagram.com www.instagram.com
He has returned home to the Chicago area to attend Northwestern University (he took a gap year last season) and one of his previous coaches in Chicago, Agata Czyzewski, was with him in Nice.

Kai Kovar was the 3rd U.S. man in Nice and placed 18th (167.61) of 23.

Lorenzo Elano (186.64) won the Junior FS (128.19) & silver medal in Nice, as well as a special trophy for the highest PCS (clip of him receiving the award :) is after his 4 photos):
www.instagram.com

lorenzo elano on Instagram: "🥈 at the Trophy Metropole Nice Côte d’Azur🇫🇷! I am feeling so ecstatic to have placed first in the freeskate and second overall at my first international competition! I was also awarded a trophy for the Best Presentatio

422 likes, 95 comments - renzoskates on October 17, 2024: "🥈 at the Trophy Metropole Nice Côte d’Azur🇫🇷! I am feeling so ecstatic to have placed first in the freeskate and second overall at my first international competition! I was also awarded a trophy for the Best Presentation Component...
www.instagram.com www.instagram.com

Nicholas Brooks (179.16) won the bronze:
www.instagram.com

Nicholas Brooks on Instagram: "I am so honored to have represented Team USA in Nice, France at the Trophy Metropole Nice Gote d’Azur, and to bring home the Bronze. This competition was full of difficult moments, challenges that tested my ability to

370 likes, 30 comments - skater_nicholas on October 25, 2024: "I am so honored to have represented Team USA in Nice, France at the Trophy Metropole Nice Gote d’Azur, and to bring home the Bronze. This competition was full of difficult moments, challenges that tested my ability to stay focused...
www.instagram.com www.instagram.com

Vaclav Vasquez was 5th (172.65; 2nd in SP with 60.88):
www.instagram.com

Vaclav Vasquez on Instagram: "My first international!! I can’t even begin to say how grateful I am to everyone who supported me to get me to this competition. Although, I am a little disappointed with how the results turned out, this was such an am

234 likes, 27 comments - vaclavskates on October 17, 2024: "My first international!! I can’t even begin to say how grateful I am to everyone who supported me to get me to this competition. Although, I am a little disappointed with how the results turned out, this was such an amazing learning...
www.instagram.com www.instagram.com
 
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