Valieva Banned for Four Years, Effective December 25, 2021

[BlueRidge]

Exactly. It's pretty much the same as scoring a skater to place higher by ignoring faults in the skate. See the US men's championship results. When there are no rules, you can make rules to suit the circumstances. This is a decision that was made two years ago when a) Kamila was allowed to compete, b) decisions were made, c) appeals were made. The possible outcomes were pretty clear and for whatever reason this is the one that was chosen.

And if people think it doesn't make sense they can speak out. No one has to accept it if they feel it is unfair. If there are legal routes they can take those, and everyone else can say what they think of it. Because this governing body will also have to deal with future ambiguous situations and a lot of people want them to do better and they won't if there's no criticism this time and we all just say ho-hum.

 

[Wyliefan]

Exactly. It's pretty much the same as scoring a skater to place higher by ignoring faults in the skate. See the US men's championship results. When there are no rules, you can make rules to suit the circumstances. This is a decision that was made two years ago when a) Kamila was allowed to compete, b) decisions were made, c) appeals were made. The possible outcomes were pretty clear and for whatever reason this is the one that was chosen.

Care to explain why you keep arguing "this decision was made long ago" over and over? Because I don't see what that has to do with anything.

 

[Former Lurve Goddess]

X post/tweet from journalist Rick Westhead

"Russia has been stripped of its figure skating team gold at the 2022 Olympics in Beijing after teenager Kamila Valieva was banned for four years for using a banned substance.The International Skating Union said today it has readjusted the competition, awarding the gold to the U.S., and silver to Japan.The bronze? It goes to Russia! Not Canada, which finished fourth at Beijing.These are not serious people."

 

[Rainbow]

Apparently it does start at ten for first place even if there are fewer competitors. Someone posted it in the last thread.

Now they could have done it differently. They could have devised a formula based on score as well as placement so that if Joan scores 110 in the free and Katya 108 and Midori 98, Katya’s contribution to the team total is much closer to Joan’s than to Midori’s.

The point being that it’s all arbitrary anyway. Bumping up skaters in individual events if someone is DQed is a longstanding rule. There isn’t anything longstanding about the TE.

It's not arbitrary though, if they follow through with the same rule for the rest of the decisions. They bumped up the skaters for the other two competitions. Following the current logic of the TE decision, they would have to leave the European title vacant as well as fourth place Olys and leave everybody else, where they were. So which rule is it?

 

[rfisher]

And if people think it doesn't make sense they can speak out. No one has to accept it if they feel it is unfair. If there are legal routes they can take those, and everyone else can say what they think of it. Because this governing body will also have to deal with future ambiguous situations and a lot of people want them to do better and they won't if there's no criticism this time and we all just say ho-hum.

Oh, I agree. Both Russia and Canada may have an appeal and if so, they should file it. It will result in a revision of the rules to cover such a situation. I can say after writing many handbooks, it's the thing you don't anticipate that causes the most issues and always results in changes.

 

[BlueRidge]

Its hardly as if this decision does much of anything for the other Russian skaters who participated and were not found to be doping. They have lost an Olympic gold medal through no fault of their own. Twisting the rules a little bit to give them a consolation prize of bronze is not going to undo their loss.

Not that the actual ISU decision is about them in anyway, they are essentially by-standers.

 

[tony]

I know I'm constantly negative about the way figure skating is judged and have been for two decades, since I was an annoying teenager who decided to really learn about the sport and the rules and the foundations of 'good' skating.

And I'm going to continue to be negative when governing bodies such as the ISU and USFS don't even know their own rules or don't plan accordingly when they've had a long, long time to do so. USFS had no idea how the new qualification system worked at 2021 Worlds in regards to Beijing Olympics. They also relayed false information to their 'puppets' as we all remember because they simply couldn't be bothered to do the research. The long-standing journalists of the sport don't even know what is going on most of the time and don't keep up with the rules.

I've been on the ISU's case many times before, including the Junior Worlds situation with China when they allowed an extra pairs team to compete. The rules are written ridiculously and unclearly, and the fact that this is their solution after 2 years of preparation is crazy. When I pushed and pushed for Walter Toigo's suspension, he finally got it and then he came back with no further training or evidence that he had actually learned how to judge.

I ranted in the mens' free skate from Nationals thread about this being the only judged sport where so many rules are 'subjective' to the point of technical panels just simply looking the other way and saying they don't have enough evidence for things that are very clear, and for judges to just throw out scores that have no correlation to what the rules state. Enough is enough. The entire sport needs a huge overhaul in more things than just leadership and action. It's all ridiculous. Flutzes and lips only count for certain skaters. Doing a massively underrotated jump only counts for certain skaters. Programs with zero choreography getting 7s and 8s for PCS just 'because'.

I would gladly campaign to get myself into a higher ISU office and start working on this shit. There is no other sport that constantly has these blunders and constant lacks of appropriate planning.

 

[rfisher]

Care to explain why you keep arguing "this decision was made long ago" over and over? Because I don't see what that has to do with anything.

It doesn't. It's just that this was given thought contrary to what some may think. I've no idea what that thought was and people can think whatever they want.

 

[Lynn226]

This article says an appeal by Canada could take about a year.

Skate Canada eyes appeal after Russia keeps Olympic bronze, despite Valieva DQ

Despite the disqualification of Kamila Valieva in a doping case, the Russia figure skating team was set to get bronze medals from the 2022 Beijing Olympics, the sport’s governing body said on Tuesday.

www.sportsnet.ca

 

[Mafke]

hardly as if this decision does much of anything for the other Russian skaters who participated and were not found to be doping

russian federation should have thought about that before.... that's their concern not the ISU's.

Can anyone explain how, without Valieva russian results count at all? they did not field a complete team.

Is that a concern or have the drooling idiots at ISU considered that?

 

[tony]

russian federation should have thought about that before.... that's their concern not the ISU's.

Can anyone explain how, without Valieva russian results count at all? they did not field a complete team.

Is that a concern or have the drooling idiots at ISU considered that?

As has been pointed out, a 'complete' team of all four disciplines is not required to enter the team event.

https://isu.org/docman-documents-links-2/2022-beijing/qualification-systems-3/22994-figure-skating-v1-0/file

D.3.2 Each Team must participate in at least three (3) disciplines(Women Single Skating/Men Single Skating/Pair Skating/IceDance) of the Team Event.

 

[Wyliefan]

It doesn't. It's just that this was given thought contrary to what some may think. I've no idea what that thought was and people can think whatever they want.

Again, don't see how it matters. Anyone can put tons of thought into something and still be wrong.

 

[Mafke]

a 'complete' team of all four disciplines is not required to enter the team event

I did not know that, which makes the team event seem even dumber.... why don't countries make more strategic choices then?

 

[Desperado]

X post/tweet from journalist Rick Westhead

"Russia has been stripped of its figure skating team gold at the 2022 Olympics in Beijing after teenager Kamila Valieva was banned for four years for using a banned substance.The International Skating Union said today it has readjusted the competition, awarding the gold to the U.S., and silver to Japan.The bronze? It goes to Russia! Not Canada, which finished fourth at Beijing.These are not serious people."

I have so much respect for the work Rick Westhead does, glad he’s taken this on.

 

[tony]

I did not know that, which makes the team event seem even dumber.... why don't countries make more strategic choices then?

Not sure what you mean seeing how they can only get points from three disciplines if they so choose to omit one discipline.

 

[skategal]

So now winning the women's portion of the team event at Beijing is only worth 9 points but the men's is worth 10.

Great job ISU.

 

[Former Lurve Goddess]

So now winning the women's portion of the team event at Beijing is only worth 9 points but the men's is worth 10.

Great job ISU.

I bet there's a legal argument to be made around discrimination here.

 

[Rukia]

I adore that the isu found a way to screw up the biggest slam dunk in history like you were handed everything you needed to get the best pr possible lololol

 

[marbri]

COC chimes in:

Statement on the ISU decision regarding the Beijing 2022 Olympic Winter Games figure skating team event - Team Canada - Official Olympic Team Website

TORONTO (January 30, 2024) – The Canadian Olympic Committee (COC) issued the following statement on today’s International Skating Union (ISU)...

olympic.ca

TORONTO (January 30, 2024) – The Canadian Olympic Committee (COC) issued the following statement on today’s International Skating Union (ISU) ruling:

“The Canadian Olympic Committee is extremely disappointed to see that the International Skating Union has not awarded Team Canada the bronze medal in the team event at the Beijing 2022 Olympic Winter Games after Ms. Valieva’s disqualification. We are in discussion with Skate Canada as it explores its options for appeal.

We recognize how difficult this process is for all the athletes and give our support to the Canadian skaters who made us so proud. This is a reminder of how harmful doping is and how crucial it is that we have a fair and safe sport system at home and around the world.”

– Canadian Olympic Committee

 

[Vagabond]

From the link in Post #1:

• All competitive results of Ms Valieva from 25 December 2021 are disqualified, with all the resulting consequences (including forfeiture of any titles, awards, medals, profits, prizes, and appearance money).

Even if one accepts that the ROC team could compete and have its results count as if Valieva did not compete, scoring the Women's phases as if she  did compete appears to contravene the decision of the CAS.

 

[miffy]

I did not know that, which makes the team event seem even dumber.... why don't countries make more strategic choices then?

It’s been like this in 2014, 2018 and 2022 - some countries don’t have a pairs team for example but could still earn enough points from the skaters they do have to qualify for the team event. They don’t have to take part if they qualify but it prevents anyone from being excluded if they only can fill 3 disciplines.
It has encouraged some countries to focus on other disciplines which they may not have done otherwise.

 

[Rukia]

From the link in Post #1:



Even if one accepts that the ROC team could compete and have its results count as if Valieva did not compete, scoring the Women's phases as if she  did compete appears to contravene the decision of the CAS.

forward this to skate canada or the coc i guess

 

[Yazmeen]

So, exactly who on the IOC's cojones does Putin seem to have in a sling??? Why does Russia keep getting away with this doping HORSESH** in some shape or form?????

While the Chinese women's gymnastics team lost their 2000 bronze because of lying about an athlete's age vs doping, I don't see a big difference here. Or are the IOC and ISU still going to go with the fairytale that Valieva "accidentally" ingested the drug?

I don't care if it isn't directly the kid's fault; this was planned doping to help the team win, and the team should pay, PERIOD. Either vacate all their scores or at least move the other women up. And it is BEYOND TIME to throw Russia OUT completely for at least one Olympic cycle. That should have been done years ago after their Sochi shenanigans.

 

[Karen-W]

This article says an appeal by Canada could take about a year.

Skate Canada eyes appeal after Russia keeps Olympic bronze, despite Valieva DQ

Despite the disqualification of Kamila Valieva in a doping case, the Russia figure skating team was set to get bronze medals from the 2022 Beijing Olympics, the sport’s governing body said on Tuesday.

www.sportsnet.ca

I said this before the verdict came out and I'm back to believing it since the ISU managed to anger not one but two federations this morning... there won't be a medal ceremony for these skaters until Milano-Cortina 2026.

 

[On My Own]

I was confused about what horsesh meant at first

 

[Jammers]

ISU Statement - Decision of CAS - Kamila Valieva (ROC) - International Skating Union

The ISU welcomes the decision of CAS and firmly maintains its position that the protection of clean athletes and the fight against doping are of the highest priority and will persist in the ongoing effort to uphold the integrity of fair competition and the well-being of athletes. The ISU...

isu.org

ISU's statement - Russia gets to keep the Bronze medal.

Why didn't they D/Q the entire team? The US has had track relay teams lose their Olympics medals because one of their sprinters popped hot in a drug test and the sprinter didn't even run in the final race he ran in the heats.

 

[Yazmeen]

I was confused about what horsesh meant at first

In loving memory of my dad, who used that word ALL the time.

 

[jlai]

Skate Canada's passive stance throughout this has been part of the problem IMO.

They should have publicly advocated for a strict adherence to the rules. They could have laid out their case for a Canada Team Bronze if/when Valieva was banned. Publicly stating so, especially through a logical following of the rules, would have put more pressure on the ISU to give them a favorable result. They could have forced the ISU to choose between public disagreement with a logical and sensical decision, or acquiescing to a popular and palatable position.

What we're seeing is a public lesson in how to cede the power of the pulpit, to forgo the pressure of public opinion. Skate Canada deserves better leadership. Ineffectual, weak, incompetent - are we missing any other adjectives to describe those running SC?

Here is the thing. If skate Canada and their skaters don’t speak up or care enough to speak up I think there is not much we fans can say about that one

 

[skategal]

COC chimes in:

Statement on the ISU decision regarding the Beijing 2022 Olympic Winter Games figure skating team event - Team Canada - Official Olympic Team Website

TORONTO (January 30, 2024) – The Canadian Olympic Committee (COC) issued the following statement on today’s International Skating Union (ISU)...

olympic.ca

TORONTO (January 30, 2024) – The Canadian Olympic Committee (COC) issued the following statement on today’s International Skating Union (ISU) ruling:

“The Canadian Olympic Committee is extremely disappointed to see that the International Skating Union has not awarded Team Canada the bronze medal in the team event at the Beijing 2022 Olympic Winter Games after Ms. Valieva’s disqualification. We are in discussion with Skate Canada as it explores its options for appeal.

We recognize how difficult this process is for all the athletes and give our support to the Canadian skaters who made us so proud. This is a reminder of how harmful doping is and how crucial it is that we have a fair and safe sport system at home and around the world.”

– Canadian Olympic Committee

Ah yes….. the sleeping giant awakens.

Let’s go.

 

[Former Lurve Goddess]

Skate Canada is trending on X/Twitter so maybe they’ll soon have enough sponsor to get some things done