Valieva Banned for Four Years, Effective December 25, 2021

[BlueRidge]

The only thing I remember about the team event is Madeline Schizas!

 

[Habs]

these medals are considered fake even by the skaters themselves.

I wouldn't be so sure.

 

[Judy]

I can just see this getting very messy.

 

[marbri]

If we're going to put words into @Andrey aka Pushkin's mouth, let's not be too surprised when he lashes back, shall we? Just a friendly warning.

The team event is a dumb event that was made up to give additional medals to Russia, USA and Canada. I said it from the very start, moreover, I said from the very start the only reason it exists is because Russia wanted another more "national" set of medals for its home Olympics in 2014, and the other big federations played along. It's a stupid format, it makes no sense in the context of figure skating, I don't know any other sport that has anything as random, and these medals are considered fake even by the skaters themselves.

All this has nothing to do with Valieva disqualification and consequential redistribution of the medals.

Just picking up on the bolded. While I think that was true in 2014 it changed in the years that followed leading into 2018. I know for certain some skaters changed their view and started taking it seriously.

 

[Karen-W]

The ROC basically confirmed they're going to fight until the bitter end losing out on that gold medal or any medal for that matter.

 

[Andrey aka Pushkin]

Statement by the Russian Olympic Committee is disgusting

Официальное заявление ОКР — Олимпийский комитет России

Basically they say CAS is not in charge of the teams event, ISU/IOC are. Which is true, I suppose, but I fail to see what their point is

So they insist they are technically disqualified by ISU/IOC rather than CAS. Oh, it changes everything !



I think if it wasn't for the war and the general charged rhetoric being the only one acceptable in Russia, some more sensible response like "we fight against doping blah blah blah and support clean sport blah blah blah" would have been much more useful for everyone, first and foremost for them.

 

[Karen-W]

I'm pretty sure that even the skaters from 2014 who maybe viewed the team event as a cheesy, unimportant part of those Olympics look back a decade later and recognize the value in whatever medal they did earn. Jason Brown, Gracie Gold, Ashley Wagner, etc - they all get to call themselves Olympic bronze medalists. And I'm sure that none of the Russian silver medalists in 2018 are leaving that accomplishment off their resumes. Sure, it might have meant little then but it does matter, financially and personally in the long run.

 

[airgelaal]

It amazes me that those who shout loudest about politics forget that the presence of doping is a fact. A fact that is not denied even by Valieva herself.

 

[airgelaal]

I’m also very interested in what will happen to her results in russia after 2022. And what will happen with the shows.

 

[Andrey aka Pushkin]

Just picking up on the bolded. While I think that was true in 2014 it changed in the years that followed leading into 2018. I know for certain some skaters changed their view and started taking it seriously.

Are these skaters happen to be from USA, Canada or Russia?

When this event was announced, I took my time and made a Highly Scientific Calculation of teams event result since the introduction of ice dance in the 60ies(?) which gave us a total of some 40 medals. Out of them only 3 would have gone to a country other than the Big Three. This Japanese one is 4th. With the Russians being out, there's an opportunity for another one, the Italians seem to be very excited for their home Olympics.

But this event is hardly anything but a bonus for the second tier skaters from the same 3 countries, and these are the only federations that realistically have enough resources to compete for the medals, barring disasters. Therefore, personally I'm completely indifferent whether Russia or Canada gets a set, , let's reward mediocrity that happened to be born in the right place.

And yes, Koleto is as outrageous as Sadovski, and they are not the first examples of this nonsense either.

 

[Theatregirl1122]

Russia: CAS is a farce because they keep deciding against us when we do illegal stuff.

 

[marbri]

Basically they say CAS is not in charge of the teams event, ISU/IOC are. Which is true, I suppose, but I fail to see what their point is

So they insist they are technically disqualified by ISU/IOC rather than CAS. Oh, it changes everything !



I think if it wasn't for the war and the general charged rhetoric being the only one acceptable in Russia, some more sensible response like "we fight against doping blah blah blah and support clean sport blah blah blah" would have been much more useful for everyone, first and foremost for them.

If the english translation is accurate they also seem to be implying that the results for Valieva were deliberately withheld until after the team event. The implication being it was a planned conspiracy against Russia. And I feel like the Russian journalist who does videos with Skating Lesson keeps asking a question that hints at this theory.

But while I disagree with you that this team event means nothing to the skaters today there is a part of me that doesn't see it's significance to be that great that there are people out there conspiring to such levels to bring about this situation?? Now if it were hockey I could see it, but not the figure skating team event

 

[Karen-W]

Yes, Mirai Nagasu 4th in 2010, Gracie Gold 4th in 2014 and Chock/Bates 4th in 2022 in their individual events are certainly "second tier" skaters.

 

[Andrey aka Pushkin]

If the english translation is accurate they also seem to be implying that the results for Valieva were deliberately withheld until after the team event. The implication being it was a planned conspiracy against Russia. And I feel like the Russian journalist who does videos with Skating Lesson keeps asking a question that hints at this theory.

But while I disagree with you that this team event means nothing to the skaters today there is a part of me that doesn't see it's significance to be that great that there are people out there conspiring to such levels to bring about this situation?? Now if it were hockey I could see it, but not the figure skating team event

I am pretty sure the response is worded in these terms with all the conspiracy hints mostly because of the general climate in Russia, and I'm not talking weather. Given the political situation, any response that in some way doesn't imply The Great Mother Russia Is Under Attack By Evil Americans will just cause whoever gives it to lose her job.

 

[airgelaal]

I am pretty sure the response is worded in these terms with all the conspiracy hints mostly because of the general climate in Russia, and I'm not talking weather. Given the political situation, any response that in some way doesn't imply The Great Mother Russia Is Under Attack By Evil Americans will just cause whoever gives it to lose her job.

It's like they don't really think so...

 

[Andrey aka Pushkin]

It's like they don't really think so...

This specific person does, that's true.

 

[Karen-W]

If we're going to put words into @Andrey aka Pushkin's mouth, let's not be too surprised when he lashes back, shall we? Just a friendly warning.

The team event is a dumb event that was made up to give additional medals to Russia, USA and Canada. I said it from the very start, moreover, I said from the very start the only reason it exists is because Russia wanted another more "national" set of medals for its home Olympics in 2014, and the other big federations played along. It's a stupid format, it makes no sense in the context of figure skating, I don't know any other sport that has anything as random, and these medals are considered fake even by the skaters themselves.

All this has nothing to do with Valieva disqualification and consequential redistribution of the medals.

I'm not trying to put words in YOUR mouth. It's just a rhetorical path that I can envision the media in Russia taking as a way of devaluing the entire situation and assuaging their bruised egos.

I laughed at the TE when it first came about in 2014 but a decade on the meaning and value of the event and that medal is clearly changing - Germany ties funding to the TE result, countries get excited about even just qualifying for the TE - we see that here with our Aussie, Ukrainian, and British posters, and I'm sure it's true for other countries as well.

 

[LeafOnTheWind]

The team event did cause changes in the international front. Why are countries suddenly devoting resources to pairs when they were largely ignored? They want to qualify for the team event and that means having all disciplines.

It doesn't matter if they team event was originally meant to just hand out more medals. I like the impact it's had in other countries' skating development.

 

[Vagabond]

The team event did cause changes in the international front. Why are countries suddenly devoting resources to pairs when they were largely ignored?

Ice dance too.

 

[LeafOnTheWind]

Ice dance too.

Yes. That's why we had Kana and Dai.

I loved his presence in ice dance just to get the Japanese crowds into a new discipline.

 

[Barbara Manatee]

But this event is hardly anything but a bonus for the second tier skaters from the same 3 countries, and these are the only federations that realistically have enough resources to compete for the medals, barring disasters. Therefore, personally I'm completely indifferent whether Russia or Canada gets a set, , let's reward mediocrity that happened to be born in the right place.

So what? Is there a single sport in or out of the Olympics that hasn't awarded titles to someone "mediocre" because the "better" athletes got sick or tripped or made a silly mistake or just didn't do their best on the day? The results count anyway. It's the nature of sport. However the Figure Skating Team Event was created, it's still a genuine Olympic event that awards genuine Olympic medals to genuine Olympic athletes. It matters. Being indifferent to cheating in this event means cheating is acceptable in every event.

 

[Andrey aka Pushkin]

If the english translation is accurate they also seem to be implying that the results for Valieva were deliberately withheld until after the team event. The implication being it was a planned conspiracy against Russia. And I feel like the Russian journalist who does videos with Skating Lesson keeps asking a question that hints at this theory.

But while I disagree with you that this team event means nothing to the skaters today there is a part of me that doesn't see it's significance to be that great that there are people out there conspiring to such levels to bring about this situation?? Now if it were hockey I could see it, but not the figure skating team event

OT: can you PM me?
I can't start a private conversation for some reason, and I need to.

And to make this post related...ermm...

Doping is Bad! Don't do drugs!

 

[PRlady]

I am pretty sure the response is worded in these terms with all the conspiracy hints mostly because of the general climate in Russia, and I'm not talking weather. Given the political situation, any response that in some way doesn't imply The Great Mother Russia Is Under Attack By Evil Americans will just cause whoever gives it to lose her job.

Yes. I’ve stayed quiet because I can’t divorce this from the larger issues surrounding Russia. Between doping their figure skaters and invading innocent neighboring countries, I’m pretty sure which matters more. They are banned and should continue to be until the war ends and reparations are paid.

I could care less how many starvelings will succeed Valieva as the Next One, there will probably only be one at the ‘26 Olys and she will be 17 or younger (I don’t trust Russia on birth certificates either.)

And nobody should accuse Andrey of being a Russian apologist, nobody. He and his family were Soviet victims. Not liking the team event is valid whether you agree with it or not.

 

[coppertop1]

Yes. I’ve stayed quiet because I can’t divorce this from the larger issues surrounding Russia. Between doping their figure skaters and invading innocent neighboring countries, I’m pretty sure which matters more. They are banned and should continue to be until the war ends and reparations are paid.

I could care less how many starvelings will succeed Valieva as the Next One, there will probably only be one at the ‘26 Olys and she will be 17 or younger (I don’t trust Russia on birth certificates either.)

And nobody should accuse Andrey of being a Russian apologist, nobody. He and his family were Soviet victims. Not liking the team event is valid whether you agree with it or not.

But saying a country that cheated should still get a medal isn't

 

[VALuvsMKwan]

The team event did cause changes in the international front. Why are countries suddenly devoting resources to pairs when they were largely ignored? They want to qualify for the team event and that means having all disciplines.

It doesn't matter if they team event was originally meant to just hand out more medals. I like the impact it's had in other countries' skating development.

I'm curious as to any sustained efforts that the Israeli Ice Skating Federation as led by "Papa Boris" has managed to make in strides towards being competitive for team medals.

 

[PRlady]

But saying a country that cheated should still get a medal isn't

There’s a case to be made for not penalizing the other Russian skaters. I don’t agree with it but as much as I’m disgusted by Putin-lickers on that team, if they didn’t dope themselves they got their points fair and square.

ETA: the Israeli press was proud the year they qualified for the team event. It’s not going to happen again soon.

 

[Sparks]

FWIW, Kamila was the only one caught. We do not know the full extent of Russian doping

 

[Miezekatze]

If they Team Event is so unimportant, doesn't count and nobody cares about it, why does it matter then if the Russians lose their medal?

 

[rfisher]

https://www.sports.ru/tribuna/blogs/dalniyles/3218467.html This works well with google translate if you don't read Russian.



It was virtually impossible for her to prove lack of intent which was the basis for the ruling. The only way to have done that would be for someone to publicly announce they'd slipped her the drug without her consent. To my knowledge, that was never done. At 15 she should never have been interviewed without her parent or guardian or lawyer present. Ever. In the US, that alone would be sufficient to get a criminal charge dismissed. There were so many missed steps made by a lot of people and unfortunately, Kamila is the one to pay the price.

 

[caseyedwards]

Didn’t the same people believe cocaine lips?