The Dance Hall 10: The Saitama Samba 2022-2023

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guignardfabbri said:
Why would they come back? I would love to see it but I am also not sure what would motivate them. Then again I never was sure what would motivate V&M to ever come back in 2016, and in retrospect it was a great choice to do so (not just winning another Olympic Gold, but coming back revived and bolstering their legacy and impression further with their performances).
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why? for MMMEEEE, damnit 😭
 
Karen-W said:
NGL, as I said in the US Dance thread, I wish the Browns were heading to Italy and Zanni/YGA rather than IAM. I thought, during Worlds, that YGA would be a marvelous fit for their style and power.
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Well, Zanni seems to be an expert dealing with sibling teams :p

I just hope they won't get stuck with one of those Montreal mush programms. I was really disappointed with what IAM gave L/B this year.
 
YGA wouldn't be terribly practical for a split coaching situation for the Browns, while NJ/NYC/Philadephia is a commuter flight to Montreal, however much they'd get from training with the Czech teams and Kazakova/Reviya. The exchange rate from USD->EUR would not be in their favor -- 10% more expensive at the moment -- if funds are an issue, and they have siblings the family needs to consider.
 
I think it would have also been lovely to see the Browns train with Coomes & Buckland alongside Bekker & Hernandez in nearby PA but excited for this change of perspective nonetheless and how it could change the path for this team.
 
Karen-W said:
NGL, as I said in the US Dance thread, I wish the Browns were heading to Italy and Zanni/YGA rather than IAM. I thought, during Worlds, that YGA would be a marvelous fit for their style and power.
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I want the Browns to develop a bigger range of styles and approaches to ice dance, so I'm thinking IAM might be a good temporary fit. They are too young to be pigeonholed into a certain style of skating.
 
I think the wish for them to train in YGA is rooted in two things that people have commented on in their first year of senior performances: they need more speed and projection. I don't think great costume packaging is exclusive to YGA, but YGA certainly has created great programs for siblings so far.

While poking around to see if I could find anything to show that Zazoui had either retired or was still coaching, I came across this interview with Romain Haguenauer from 2021:
https://skating-to-music.blog/2021/03/06/i-always-work-with-a-frame-interview-with-romain-haguenauer/

He talks a lot about his approaches for working with a wide range of teams, including for the first time, but he's pretty clear that building the skills to be able to deliver programs well is a key part of the process.
 
I'm for sure not a fan of everyone moving to IAM, but this feels like a good move for the Browns. It's been clear for a while that if they're going to progress they would need to change something in their coaching setup, so I'm glad they've gone for it. And if they need/want to stay in North America for life and/or financial reasons, this is probably their best option. IAM seems to do best with teams who have a clear vision of what they want to say on their ice and ideas for their programmes. That's mostly been their older or more experienced teams, but the Browns have a distinctive approach already so I'm hopeful that they'll be able to keep that - no Montreal mush or dirgy ballads for them! - while getting help with the polish and detail of their skating and programmes that better market their strengths to a senior judging panel. And after mostly training alone they'll benefit from being around. other elite teams (though they don't need 20+ others for that).

I'm less enthusiastic about Cizeron choreography (his work for Lopareva/Brissaud and Harris/Chan was underwhelming) but hopefully with another year of experience he'll be better at choreographing for the team on the ice rather than himself.

Are the Browns Gadbois/IAM's first sibling team?

Flip Jump said:
I think it would have also been lovely to see the Browns train with Coomes & Buckland alongside Bekker & Hernandez in nearby PA but excited for this change of perspective nonetheless and how it could change the path for this team.
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I think if the Browns were happy with Dear personally and creatively they were right to move to a group with experience working with teams at the level they want to be, not taking a punt on another untested coach. But I would very much like to see more coaching groups develop, including both Coomes & Buckland and Joel Dear. With the strength in US and Canadian ice dance its amazing how few feasible options there are for a team in the Browns' position.

I do hope someone moves to Coomes & Buckland though - I think Bekker/Hernandez would really benefit from training alongside another international level team and I feel a bit of concern that they're in a similar position to the Browns and will also be moving north in a year or two. I know C/B are secondary coaches for Epps/Gillman, but they won't be senior eligible until 2027-28.
 
I’m not sure what I think of this - I do think it’s a good move for them and they do need some more experienced expertise around them. That being said, I’m unsure how this will work in practice and whether it will translate into the results they need or not.
 
So how many teams does that put at IAM now? I got to 21 in Montreal, 7 in Ontario, and 6/7 women who may or may not have a partner by the start of next season. Who am I missing?

For context, there are 126 teams on the seasons best list.

IAM Montreal
  1. Bronsard / Richmond (CAN)
  2. Brown / Brown (USA)
  3. Chock / Bates (USA)
  4. Fabbri / Ayer (CAN)
  5. Fear / Gibson (GBR)
  6. Fournier Beaudry / Sorensen (CAN)
  7. Gauthier / Thieren (CAN)
  8. Hawayek / Baker (USA)
  9. Harris / Chan (AUS)
  10. Holubtsova / Bielobrov (UKR)
  11. (J) Kishimoto / Tamura (JPN)
  12. Komatsubara / Koleto (JPN)
  13. Lafond-Fournier / Kam (NZL)
  14. Lajoie / Lagha (CAN)
  15. Lauriault / Le Gac (CAN)
  16. Lim / Quan (KOR)
  17. Lopareva / Brissaud (FRA)
  18. Mazingue / Gaidajenko (EST)
  19. Reed / Ambrulevicius (LTU)
  20. Smart / Dieck (tbc)
  21. Wang / Liu (CHN)
Plus Marianne Hubert (CAN), Kayleigh Maksymec (SUI), Maxine Weatherby (KAZ?) and maybe Sasha Fear (GBR).

IAM Ontario
  1. Careira / Ponomarenko (USA)
  2. Dozzi / Papetti (ITA)
  3. Hensen / Lickers (CAN)
  4. (J) Lewis / McMillan (CAN)
  5. Ritter / Brykalov (AZE)
  6. Robinson / Portz (CAN)
  7. (J) Veillon / Brandys (CAN)

Plus Maia Ianetta (CAN), Layla Karnes (GBR/USA) and Hayley Sales (CAN).
 
Debbie S said:
During/after Worlds last year, there was interview (posted here somewhere) where he said they had been brainwashed (referring to their comments about the war and S/K openly supporting it).
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And Nazarova & Nikitin have talked about how Victoria & Nikita totally ghosted them. While they were literally getting bombed, they received so many messages of support from their competitors around the world, but it was absolute silence from their former friends and training mates. The whole camp is full of scum.
 
sap5 said:
I want the Browns to develop a bigger range of styles and approaches to ice dance, so I'm thinking IAM might be a good temporary fit. They are too young to be pigeonholed into a certain style of skating.
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??? They were the only U.S. team at Nationals with an original & interesting RD this season, IMO.

They need more power, especially considering their size. It is possible that Montreal may be able to help with that. IAM will have to step outside its romance box:). We'll see what happens. Please do not give them something boring. Anyway, it's a serious step and this team has a serious challenge ahead of them so here we go.
 
I don't really get this critic about IAM and their "flowy mesh" or "romance box" to be honest. I think this was true in the 2016-2017 season where Smart/Diaz and Virtue/Moir were getting flowy FD and that disappointed a lot of people, but I think you have to understand it takes time to build a relationship between the skaters and the coaches. Also skaters do propose idea and the P/C style was so effective back then that it might have influenced their choice too.
And then, when you compare the top IAM team from the last years, they have all brought a distinctive style to most of their team.

Smart Diaz had that flair that you could see in their Proud Mary and their Zorro free dance.
The Danadians have a more fierce ? Peplum ? approach with gladiator or their viking free. I remember a flamenco RD (maybe SD ?) from them that was quite good too.
Chock/Bates were more exploring the non human part of dancing (snake, fire and air, alien...) and were exploring a very peculiar style of gesture. Even their first FD was not flowy at all but more sexy and smooth with their Elvis program to fever.
Hubbel Donohue developped an athletic side and were always skating to strong emotions, I remember mostly their programs with a leading voice.
And Fear/Gibson are exposing their energy and fun side to pop and rock music.

All have a distinctive style that is relevant to the skaters, as it is their own style.

I'm not worried at all about the Browns. Maybe this will take them a few years to find their identity and for IAM to "get" what it is but IAM will package them well and will improve the technical side of their skating.
 
Belsornia said:
So how many teams does that put at IAM now? I got to 21 in Montreal, 7 in Ontario, and 6/7 women who may or may not have a partner by the start of next season. Who am I missing?

For context, there are 126 teams on the seasons best list.

IAM Montreal
  1. Bronsard / Richmond (CAN)
  2. Brown / Brown (USA)
  3. Chock / Bates (USA)
  4. Fabbri / Ayer (CAN)
  5. Fear / Gibson (GBR)
  6. Fournier Beaudry / Sorensen (CAN)
  7. Gauthier / Thieren (CAN)
  8. Hawayek / Baker (USA)
  9. Harris / Chan (AUS)
  10. Holubtsova / Bielobrov (UKR)
  11. (J) Kishimoto / Tamura (JPN)
  12. Komatsubara / Koleto (JPN)
  13. Lafond-Fournier / Kam (NZL)
  14. Lajoie / Lagha (CAN)
  15. Lauriault / Le Gac (CAN)
  16. Lim / Quan (KOR)
  17. Lopareva / Brissaud (FRA)
  18. Mazingue / Gaidajenko (EST)
  19. Reed / Ambrulevicius (LTU)
  20. Smart / Dieck (tbc)
  21. Wang / Liu (CHN)
Plus Marianne Hubert (CAN), Kayleigh Maksymec (SUI), Maxine Weatherby (KAZ?) and maybe Sasha Fear (GBR).

IAM Ontario
  1. Careira / Ponomarenko (USA)
  2. Dozzi / Papetti (ITA)
  3. Hensen / Lickers (CAN)
  4. (J) Lewis / McMillan (CAN)
  5. Ritter / Brykalov (AZE)
  6. Robinson / Portz (CAN)
  7. (J) Veillon / Brandys (CAN)

Plus Maia Ianetta (CAN), Layla Karnes (GBR/USA) and Hayley Sales (CAN).
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As far as I understood it, the Browns and also Lopareva/Brissaud seem to have the same “part time” set up whereby they do large chunks of training at their own training bases in USA and France
 
I hope Marie-france will prioritze the canadanes and LALA for worlds in Montreal I am hoping to attend the event and i am certainly not going to see an overrated boring american team that can`t skate win.
 
On the subject of the top 3 dance teams and who will continue, we got a few comments during WTT press.

From GoldenSkate's tweets, we have Gilles/Poirier undecided:
About future plans: “It’s hard to take decisions here and now. We need to settle down a bit, listen into ourselves, listen to our feelings and then take a decision on the future.”
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Guignard/Fabbri saying they plan to compete next season:
"We sat together after Worlds discussing our future. We haven’t completely finalized the decision yet but we are almost sure we will be staying at least one more season."
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Chock/Bates didn't comment directly on future plans. The closest thing was this bit:
The thing they look forward to the most now: "To appreciate the moment, reflect on everything, take some time to relax and maybe do nothing for a bit. We don’t want to hurry right to the next moment."
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Advanced Novices will do Rocker Foxtrot and Starlight Waltz next season instead of Paso Doble and Starlight Waltz (source: ISU Communication 2555)
Requirements for Level 2 are 1 KeyPoint +75% of Pattern Dance completed by both partners
Requirements for Level 3 are 2 KeyPoints +90% of Pattern Dance completed by both partners
Requirements for Level 1 stays as last season (75% of the Pattern being competed by both partners and no key point executed correctly)
 
RoseRed said:
On the subject of the top 3 dance teams and who will continue, we got a few comments during WTT press.

From GoldenSkate's tweets, we have Gilles/Poirier undecided:


Guignard/Fabbri saying they plan to compete next season:


Chock/Bates didn't comment directly on future plans. The closest thing was this bit:
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I think Gilles/Poirier and Chock/Bates are both going to continue as well. Piper and Madi both have 80s playlists on their Spotify profiles, so they're at least brainstorming program ideas for next season. In this interview, Chock/Bates were quoted with this
We need to recalibrate after the (summer ice show) tour but we’re certainly in the best shape we’ve ever been in and in the prime of our careers so anything is possible.
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It's a home worlds for Piper and Paul, and for Madi and Evan, it's in their training city. That feels like pretty strong motivation to keep going.
 
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