Cultural appropriation. Discuss.

[sadya]

I'm adding this point in a separate post, as it might not fit with this discussion entirely, but I mention this as it is part of this subject. A big additional reason for people becoming upset about cultural appropriation is that when someone from a different background wears something or has a certain style, that person is seen as too different, perhaps even bullied or discriminated against. As soon as someone from the bullying or discriminating side uses that same style though, suddenly it's in fashion.

People have done this with clothing, with hair styles, jewelry, mehndi (henna) applications, etc. I remember begin bullied when growing up, because my parents made me wear southasian clothes, fearing I would become too "western" and also fearing the judgement of other southasians judging how they were raising their daughter. In my early 20s, suddenly this style of clothing became popular here and nowadays everyone wears it. It was very strange to come across my old schoolfellows who used to bully me for my clothes, suddenly wearing those same kinds of clothes. Personally, I like that this is fashion here nowadays, people can't refuse me jobs for my clothing style anymore.

And unfortunately nowadays you have to add disclaimers to everything you write, so here is mine: not all people are the same, this means not all Dutch people bully or discriminate and this also means that not all southasian parents have a strict choking culture when raising their daughters.

 

[VGThuy]

I'm adding this point in a separate post, as it might not fit with this discussion entirely, but I mention this as it is part of this subject. A big additional reason for people becoming upset about cultural appropriation is that when someone from a different background wears something or has a certain style, that person is seen as too different, perhaps even bullied or discriminated against. As soon as someone from the bullying or discriminating side uses that same style though, suddenly it's in fashion.

People have done this with clothing, with hair styles, jewelry, mehndi (henna) applications, etc. I remember begin bullied when growing up, because my parents made me wear southasian clothes, fearing I would become too "western" and also fearing the judgement of other southasians judging how they were raising their daughter. In my early 20s, suddenly this style of clothing became popular here and nowadays everyone wears it. It was very strange to come across my old schoolfellows who used to bully me for my clothes, suddenly wearing those same kinds of clothes. Personally, I like that this is fashion here nowadays, people can't refuse me jobs for my clothing style anymore.

And unfortunately nowadays you have to add disclaimers to everything you write, so here is mine: not all people are the same, this means not all Dutch people bully or discriminate and this also means that not all southasian parents have a strict choking culture when raising their daughters.

Right, and that was another aspect of the cultural appropriation debate that often gets forgotten about. When this started gaining traction, it was during the height of Michael Brown, Ferguson, Trayvon Martin/Zimmerman, and many other examples. It just brought up a lot of deep-seated anger and resentment out about how so many in the U.S. love to take from black culture, black music, African-American cuisine, use language that originated from the black community, defend the right to use language directed at the black community negatively, etc. but are sitting by as this country disproportionately kills black/brown men, how we have failed the black community has from slavery to Jim Crow to the New Jim Crow (happening now), to where they are put in more vulnerable positions to be put imprisoned or killed by authority figures, and how there just a blatant disrespect, hatred, and fear of black people (especially men) in this country; but this country sure does enjoy the culture and flavor they provide.

It was also frustration about how when certain acts were only done by BIPOC, it was othered, ridiculed, mocked, seen as unclassy, not respectable (respectability politics), or even criminal in some circumstances. But once white people in the U.S. started partaking, those things become accepted, normalized, and even have calls for decriminalization...and the people who partake in such activities aren't seen as unclassy or unAmerican or whatever when they do it. In fact, it becomes "trendy" and corporations headed by mostly white male CEOs and board members profit off of the culture with more "acceptable" ambassadors to represent these trends, and their white teenagers can go through their phases as they apply for medical school/law school, while most in the black community (with a few black celebrities being the exception) who created such trends are still seen with suspicion, disdain, and treated as if they aren't equal and definitely are not enjoying the fruits of their creation/labor; someone else came in and picked and harvested those fruits.

I don't mean to add such dynamite to this discussion, and I know the language above sounds harsh and damning. But that's just the tip of the iceberg of how many feel and still feel about it. So when we have this discussion without talking about anger in the BIPOC communities and the mockery that comes off in all the ways I mentioned above when something is adopted into another culture without credit, acknowledgement, or even calls to do something to help improve racial equity, then we're really missing a huge piece of the puzzle and this conversation will always be incomplete and devoid of the substance behind why cultural appropriation is such a big deal. In other words, I think we can't really talk about cultural appropriation in the U.S. without talking about these things if we really want to understand it.

 

[airgelaal]

As a person who believes in the Ukrainian folk origin of this song, I am very surprised that white people do not have any rights to it.
I think any topic should be approached with respect. Probably, in any culture there are taboo topics. Therefore, if you use themes from other cultures, you need to be very careful. But I don't think there are topics that some people can use and others can't.

 

[kwanfan1818]

I think there would have been more criticism of Brown's Sinnerman if his long-time choreographer Rohene Ward hadn't created the program for him.

"Revelations" was created when Alvin Ailey American Dance Theater was an all-Black company, but that changed a few years later, and in the decades I've seen it, casting has been multi-racial.

 

[gkelly]

So what should it do instead? Go back to the compulsory dances which are firmly rooted in a very specific upper-class white culture and heterosexual norms?

And upper-class white adaptations* of Latin American rhythms and dance styles.

*Edit to "appropriations" as appropriate.

 

[liv]

I like simple: you like a piece of music? Then skate to it.

 

[Wyliefan]

I'm adding this point in a separate post, as it might not fit with this discussion entirely, but I mention this as it is part of this subject. A big additional reason for people becoming upset about cultural appropriation is that when someone from a different background wears something or has a certain style, that person is seen as too different, perhaps even bullied or discriminated against. As soon as someone from the bullying or discriminating side uses that same style though, suddenly it's in fashion.

People have done this with clothing, with hair styles, jewelry, mehndi (henna) applications, etc. I remember begin bullied when growing up, because my parents made me wear southasian clothes, fearing I would become too "western" and also fearing the judgement of other southasians judging how they were raising their daughter. In my early 20s, suddenly this style of clothing became popular here and nowadays everyone wears it. It was very strange to come across my old schoolfellows who used to bully me for my clothes, suddenly wearing those same kinds of clothes. Personally, I like that this is fashion here nowadays, people can't refuse me jobs for my clothing style anymore.

And unfortunately nowadays you have to add disclaimers to everything you write, so here is mine: not all people are the same, this means not all Dutch people bully or discriminate and this also means that not all southasian parents have a strict choking culture when raising their daughters.

Something like this happened to my grandfather. He was mocked at school when he was a boy for bringing homemade pizza for lunch. And you know what happened with pizza. Of course it morphed into something very different, but still. I always say, if only he'd been able to get in on the ground floor, we'd be millionaires now!

 

[sadya]

I think there would have been more criticism of Brown's Sinnerman if his long-time choreographer Rohene Ward hadn't created the program for him.

"Revelations" was created when Alvin Ailey American Dance Theater was an all-Black company, but that changed a few years later, and in the decades I've seen it, casting has been multi-racial.

I might be remembering wrong, but I think I read a comment somewhere online (I know, this sounds as vague as the friend of the cousin of the dogsitter of the sister of my friend) about someone who was involved with 'Revelations' performances, that Ward and Brown really did justice to this piece. I can't find that quote right now though.

It might be interesting to reread what they exactly feel, what they say about what was done right, so maybe others can learn from this.

 

[clairecloutier]

This is an interesting piece that explores how The Nutcracker—often seen as a classic Russian ballet—is actually a pastiche of music and dance concepts drawn from (or inspired by) other cultures:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/theater-dance/2022/11/25/nutcracker-history-russian-imperialism/

 

[sadya]

Thank you for sharing. The Nutcracker was the first ballet I ever liked from start to finish, when I was a teenager in de age of the floppy disk and the 3.5 inch diskette.

I never read about the history and honestly thought the different dances were just for celebrations and fun, and that the cakes added to that since they belong to celebrations. Other than that, I didn't think much about it. Fascinating history.

 

[MacMadame]

All waltzes all the time.

I could go for that. But I think anyone should be able to use any music at any time (as long as they get the rights to it). It's not using music from other cultures that is the problem. It's what you do with it.

As in:

Give credit to the culture you take something from to use in your work (or life) and use it with respect and understanding. I love the result of mixing cultures, when well done it gives us great art in dance, music, skating, foods even. I wouldn't want to miss that.

With a skating program, you can pick music that tells a story and act out that story. You can choose music that doesn't tell a story and act out a story you make up. You can pick music that tells a story and act out a different story (as Disney did in their movie Fantasia). Or you can pick music and just use it to convey a feeling and not a story regardless of whether or not the music was originally used to tell a story.

Domnina and Shabalin got in trouble because their dance was seen as disrespectful, not because of the music they used.

 

[sadya]

True about Domnina and Shabalin, I wasn't talking about them though. I was writing about the topic in general.

 

[Orm Irian]

Domnina and Shabalin got in trouble because their dance was seen as disrespectful, not because of the music they used.

The music they used had about as little to do with the culture/s they were claiming to present on ice as the dance did, inclusion of a didgeridoo in the instrumentation notwithstanding, and it was in fact one of the many, many, many things people objected to about that entire disgraceful episode.

 

[sadya]

I was just googling that episode and a Guardian article mentioned a dance that was more respectful:
The Article:

Russian skaters' Aborigine routine causes upset in Australia

Oksana Domnina and Maxim Shabalin, tipped for Olympic gold in Vancouver, wear brown costumes with Aboriginal motifs

www.theguardian.com

An Australian dance pair giving a more respectful performance

O'Brien & Merriman Original Dance 2008 Worlds

This is the Australian dance team Danielle O'Brien and Greg Merriman's Aboriginal OD from 2008 Worlds. Enjoy!!!

www.youtube.com

I'm not an expert on Australian culture. Is this article correct, is the above dance acceptable?


Then another old article from The New York Times, which offers a different opinion:

Out-of-Step Ice Dancing Routine (Published 2010)

Russian ice dancers Oksana Domnina and Maxim Shabalin have joined a long tradition of questionable costume choices, but theirs has drawn the ire of aboriginal leaders.

www.nytimes.com

Quotes from the above article:
Some, though, believe the criticism is as over the top as the costumes.

“To make a big stink, this is ice skating,” said Brian Boitano, the 1988 Olympic champion.

Artists should be entitled to their own interpretations, said Uschi Keszler, who coached the Olympic medalists Brian Orser and Elvis Stojko.

“I found it very interesting that anybody would be insulted if a world champion is inspired by you to use this as a flavor,” Keszler said. “Who in their right mind would go into the Olympic Games trying to insult someone?”

I wonder if some of their opinions on this topic have changed now.

Some online responses to Manton’s criticism in The Sydney Morning Herald suggested that aboriginals should not hoard indigenous culture, that it should be shared and celebrated, even if not precisely or elegantly replicated.

 

[delayedaxel]

I am German and I remember that Ari and Akop did a very fun number to Bavarian folk music in Lederhosen quite some time ago. Let‘s put aside the fact for a moment that Bavaria is only one of our 16 Bundesländer and not representative for Germany as a whole, I was not offended at all that Armenian skaters chose a (cliché) German folklore music to dance to.

And even if I had been offended - who‘d care? Nobody chose me to decide if non-Germans should skate to this or any other kind of German music and in no way could my personal opinion be representative of that other people have who happen to share my nationality.

So, in my eyes, the question to ask is not „Should skater(s) x skate to music y“, but rather: “Is the programm done well in terms of research, costumes and gerneral understanding of a theme?“

Since figure skating has this theatrical part of portraying/ interpretating a character, it borrows heavily from theatre and film and therefore, the standards of theatre and film should apply, which don‘t ask for an actor‘s background, skin colour our ethnicity, but for an actor‘s capacity to portray a different character.

I will give two examples: Katarina Witt could skate to „Carmen“ although she is neither French (as already pointed out by another poster the opera is in French) nor Spanish. The question was not: „Did she offend somebody by her choice of music?“ (The music obviously not being part of her own German culture), but „Was her performance believable did she interpretate the character well?“ (yes, in my opinion).

Katarina Witt, again, did an exhibition number to „Schindler‘s List“ portraying the girl in the red coat. Nobody, at that time, would ask if she should or shouldn‘t use this music based on the fact whether she was Jewish or not. The whole concept of acting is to play a different person than yourself. Noone, if we stick with this example, would demand that Jewish people only be played or represented by Jewish people or that only he who is 100% German and an anti-semite in real life can play a nazi.

This is just not how acting works. The whole idea of acting is to play somebody you are not. For centuries, men played women in Shakespeare‘s plays. Why should we have different measurements for figure skaters than we have for actors onstage or in the movies?

 

[PRlady]

I am German and I remember that Ari and Akop did a very fun number to Bavarian folk music in Lederhosen quite some time ago. Let‘s put aside the fact for a moment that Bavaria is only one of our 16 Bundesländer and not representative for Germany as a whole, I was not offended at all that Armenian skaters chose a (cliché) German folklore music to dance to.

And even if I had been offended - who‘d care? Nobody chose me to decide if non-Germans should skate to this or any other kind of German music and in no way could my personal opinion be representative of that other people have who happen to share my nationality.

So, in my eyes, the question to ask is not „Should skater(s) x skate to music y“, but rather: “Is the programm done well in terms of research, costumes and gerneral understanding of a theme?“

Since figure skating has this theatrical part of portraying/ interpretating a character, it borrows heavily from theatre and film and therefore, the standards of theatre and film should apply, which don‘t ask for an actor‘s background, skin colour our ethnicity, but for an actor‘s capacity to portray a different character.

I will give two examples: Katarina Witt could skate to „Carmen“ although she is neither French (as already pointed out by another poster the opera is in French) nor Spanish. The question was not: „Did she offend somebody by her choice of music?“ (The music obviously not being part of her own German culture), but „Was her performance believable did she interpretate the character well?“ (yes, in my opinion).

Katarina Witt, again, did an exhibition number to „Schindler‘s List“ portraying the girl in the red coat. Nobody, at that time, would ask if she should or shouldn‘t use this music based on the fact whether she was jewish or not. The whole concept of acting is to play a different person than yourself. Noone, if we stick with this example, would demand that jewish people only be played or represented by jewish people or that only he who is 100% German and an anti-semite in real life can play a nazi.

This is just not how acting works. The whole idea of acting is to play somebody you are not. For centuries, men played women in Shakespeare‘s plays. Why should we have different measurements for figure skaters than we have for actors onstage or in the movies?

The Schindler’s List program was problematic. For one thing, I think it was the first one, the movie came out the year before. For another, Witt was East German and they had not really acknowledged or repented of the Holocaust. The girl in the red coat was indeed Jewish and used by Spielberg as a symbol of lost and tortured innocence, a dicey role for a grown-up, sexy German woman to play. I wasn’t outraged but I did think hmmm, better choices were available.

 

[VGThuy]

I think most people give allowances to performers who pay respect to the dance and character and do the work to capture it. However, when it falls flat, seems under-researched, or choreographed without care or respect...and relies heavily into stereotypes and cliches, that's where most issues occur.

Like take for example Winkler/Lohse's routine here....I think it was the costumes and sort of over-the-top portrayals that African-Americans were used to seeing when white performers used to paint their skins black in minstrel shows and in films like Birth of a Nation, one of the most heinous, racist films of all time:

[HD] Winkler & Lohse - "Message of Hope" 2000/2001 GPF - Final Round Free Dance

Kati Winkler, René Lohse / Кати Винклер, Рене Лозе / カティ・ウィンクラー, レネ・ローゼ2000/2001 ISU Grand Prix Final, Tokyo, Japan, Feb.15-18 20012000-2001 フィギュアスケート グランプリ...

youtu.be

There are also, some themes that may just be outside of what one can do. Not that they should be banned, but they are better reserved for those whose communities they affect...those songs and music from shows that cannot be separated from the original source/message (like a lot of the more serious rap songs, which is why most skaters stay away from the more heavy rap songs, and have for the most part been VERY smart about their music choices for the hip hop SD/RD). Broadway songs that are lyric-heavy are more difficult to separate, but not every theater song is a "heavy book" song and many of them can work as stand-alone vehicles and have evolved outside the original context of the show for which they were written — especially the older ones where the lyrics were more "poetic" than "prose"...think Rodgers/Hart v. Rodgers/Hammerstein or Rodgers/Hammerstein v. Stephen Sondheim...or older Stephen Sondheim v. newer Stephen Sondheim.

As for acting on stage....opera has always gotten a pass when it came to race-appropriate casting because the pool of talent to choose from to even cast has always been limited. As you go "down" the road where less specialized unique talent is required and the pool is bigger, then you have more calls for more racially-conscious casting. On Broadway, even with race-blind casting, they wouldn't cast white actors in a revival of A Raisin in the Sun because that story is really about contemporary race relations in America that still resonate and hit hard today; but they would do racial-blind casting for "classics" where race relations or contemporary race-relations aren't part of the story, which, IMO, is just best practice because we now open classical acting schools to all races and it would be a horrible industry if we teach actors of all races the classic theater repertoire from different eras but then make them go out into the "real" world and tell someone like Viola Davis that she can't play "Hedda Gabler" only because she's black. Everyone who will watch that production would know who Ibsen was, where he came from, and what the characters would actually look like, so casting a black actress wouldn't hurt the play at all since it's not about modern-day race relations.

 

[sadya]

I am German and I remember that Ari and Akop did a very fun number to Bavarian folk music in Lederhosen quite some time ago. Let‘s put aside the fact for a moment that Bavaria is only one of our 16 Bundesländer and not representative for Germany as a whole, I was not offended at all that Armenian skaters chose a (cliché) German folklore music to dance to.


Katarina Witt, again, did an exhibition number to „Schindler‘s List“ portraying the girl in the red coat. Nobody, at that time, would ask if she should or shouldn‘t use this music based on the fact whether she was jewish or not. The whole concept of acting is to play a different person than yourself. Noone, if we stick with this example, would demand that jewish people only be played or represented by jewish people or that only he who is 100% German and an anti-semite in real life can play a nazi.

This is just not how acting works. The whole idea of acting is to play somebody you are not. For centuries, men played women in Shakespeare‘s plays. Why should we have different measurements for figure skaters than we have for actors onstage or in the movies?

I remember that program by Ari and Akaop! I've been looking for the version I saw for years! I remember they were in a gala in 1997. Perhaps it was the annual gala Eurosport used to air during Christmas/New Year time. I had no idea if it was authentic or not, but I enjoyed that routine very much.

About Witt, I do remember some online criticism about her skating to Schindler's List. Some people thought it was insensitive. I haven't watched it properly myself, so I can't say. I do think it depends on the way she portrayed the topic.


In our current times things are more complicated when it comes to acting. Especially when it's about acting roles for minorities. People from certain backgrounds don't have the same chances as others. So when a movie is made about someone from their background (race, sexual orientation, gender orientation, a certain illness, etc) more and more people do want someone actually with that background to play that role since they usually don't get many roles and they are often better suited for that role.

Eddie Redmayne for example, regrets accepting the role in The Danish Girl now:

Eddie Redmayne Says He Would Not Star in ‘The Danish Girl’ Today: ‘I Think It Was a Mistake’

“Many people don’t have a chair at the table,” Redmayne said about the issue with the casting process.

www.indiewire.com

I remember Philadelphia with Tom Hanks. He was amazing and I can't imagine anyone else in that role! Should someone else have played that role? I don't know. I have mixed feelings about this topic. Yes, acting is about being able to portray roles very different to yourself. At the same time, if a movie is about minorities who usually don't have many roles, shouldn't they get a chance to play a big role when someone makes a movie concerning their background?

Ghost in the Shell controversy comes to mind:

A Comprehensive Guide to the Ghost in the Shell Controversy

Why the Scarlett Johansson action movie has angered so many people

time.com

There are many more examples. Of course, the most important part is respect and understanding, but are you already being disrespectful when you accept roles like these or do you become disrespectful when your portrayal is wrong and insulting?

How about Borat? Was that humour or disrespectful? Okay, I'll stop before this topic becomes completely off topic (or is it too late now? if so, my apologies!)

 

[delayedaxel]

In our current times things are more complicated when it comes to acting. Especially when it's about acting roles for minorities. People from certain backgrounds don't have the same chances as others. So when a movie is made about someone from their background (race, sexual orientation, gender orientation, a certain illness, etc) more and more people do want someone actually with that background to play that role since they usually don't get many roles and they are often better suited for that role.

This is a very good point, but, in my eyes, these are two different (albeit related) topics.

The first one is about empowerment and giving people a voice who have not or merely been represented yet. This is, as I understand it, a fight against discrimination.

The second one is about denying someone a role solely because he or she lacks a certain background. This is discrimination.

 

[VGThuy]

This is a very good point, but, in my eyes, these are two different (albeit related) topics.

The first one is about empowerment and giving people a voice who have not or merely been represented yet. This is, as I understand it, a fight against discrimination.

The second one is about denying someone a role solely because he or she lacks a certain background. This is discrimination.

Society is actually ok with, accepts, and legalizes discrimination if there is a compelling argument for it. We discriminate against people for all kinds of things all the time. It's once we discriminate against people for things they are born with and can't help and there's no compelling reason for it other than animus, prejudice, and racism (add in sexism, transphobia, homophobia, xenophobia, and other identities that are becoming more empowered and showing they are just as qualified to tackle certain jobs) then we have an issue.

It's hard with actors because you can always come up with some reason to excuse not hiring someone, but most of those excuses can be legitimate. For example...not hiring say...Meryl Streep to play Juliet in a straight, traditional production of Romeo and Juliet in 2022 due to her age will be seen as acceptable. Not allowing Meryl Streep to play a role that calls for a white man in his late 30s-early 40s in a new big-budget film will also be seen as ok. Not allowing Meryl Streep to play a role that is neutral on race and sex grounds, and one where's she's fully qualified for and that doesn't ask for anything outside of what she brings physically but she gets denied only because one producer with casting veto power thinks a man would just be better without any other thing to back it up...and I'm not saying a specific man, but just a man...that can be a problem. However, smart people would never outwardly or explicitly give that as a reason. Working on some racial discrimination cases, it's amazing how employers and management have learned to hide irrational animus.

 

[On My Own]

For another, Witt was East German and they had not really acknowledged or repented of the Holocaust.

If skating is an art, would you say that Witt was possibly making a statement about her own country's lack of acknowledgment of the holocaust?

 

[Wyliefan]

Interestingly, the director of Boys Don't Cry was on TCM the other day saying that she spent years looking for a transgender actor to play the lead role, and there weren't any who were good enough, so she had to get Hilary Swank. That was an eyebrow-raiser. I didn't think directors said things like that anymore.

 

[VGThuy]

Interestingly, the director of Boys Don't Cry was on TCM the other day saying that she spent years looking for a transgender actor to play the lead role, and there weren't any who were good enough, so she had to get Hilary Swank. That was an eyebrow-raiser. I didn't think directors said things like that anymore.

Right? A better thing to say would have probably been something like: "We looked at a huge and wide whole pool of actors, and we really wanted to find a trans actor - hopefully, a trans-man, to play Brandon Teena, but we also were open for cis-women to audition since Brandon Teena's transition from Teena Brandon was also a huge part of the story we were telling, and Hillary Swank just blew us away that I could not deny her the role. Wrongly or rightly, that's how I felt at the time."

 

[PRlady]

If skating is an art, would you say that Witt was possibly making a statement about her own country's lack of acknowledgment of the holocaust?

Possibly. I know she responded to questions about it at the time. She had the standing and popularity to take a risk. I’m just reporting that the reaction in the American Jewish community, and specifically at the Holocaust museum where I worked at the time, was pretty uneasy.

 

[delayedaxel]

Possibly. I know she responded to questions about it at the time. She had the standing and popularity to take a risk. I’m just reporting that the reaction in the American Jewish community, and specifically at the Holocaust museum where I worked at the time, was pretty uneasy.

But I think Spielberg himself liked it and even spoke to Witt personally.

 

[Deleted member 221]

There are probably a few dimensions to tease out here. For me, it boils down to 1) good intentions, 2) tasteful execution, and 3) understanding and thought about the issue.

I felt like Witt's "Schindler's List" performance was well intentioned, tastefully executed, and she spent some time thinking about the issue. I'm sure she knew it would be controversial, and she decided to do it anyway. I think that's OK. I also think it's OK that some Jews were uncomfortable with the program. We can (or should be able to) agree to disagree when the intentions are noble and the execution is solid. Just because Spielberg or whomever OK'ed it doesn't mean Jews have to be comfortable with it.

OTOH, Winkler and Lohse came off as clueless. I believe they had good intentions, but the execution was not tasteful, and they did not think about the issue carefully. I doubt any Black person (and certainly no Black American) was involved in the construction of that program. This one is not OK in my book, despite the good intentions, and even despite some of the feedback they incorporated. They tried to make it better, but IMO they really had a duty to scrap it.

I'd rate Domnina and Shabalin even lower. I'm not even sure they had good intentions; maybe neutral intentions (to score well and do something different) at best. Their program went beyond clueless into exploitative.

And, again, Yagudin's "One Banana" is the all-time low. I have a hard time seeing how his intention wasn't to deliberately offend.

 

[On My Own]

Where do I watch this One Banana?

 

[gkelly]

Where do I watch this One Banana?

YAGUDIN A. 1997 EX

My favorite collections.

www.youtube.com

In this performance he seems to be using a corn husk(?) as a prop, but in other performances I believe he used a banana.

In any case, the issue is less the prop than the costume and general choreography.

 

[On My Own]

yikes

 

[delayedaxel]

I felt like Witt's "Schindler's List" performance was well intentioned, tastefully executed, and she spent some time thinking about the issue. I'm sure she knew it would be controversial, and she decided to do it anyway. I think that's OK. I also think it's OK that some Jews were uncomfortable with the program. We can (or should be able to) agree to disagree when the intentions are noble and the execution is solid. Just because Spielberg or whomever OK'ed it doesn't mean Jews have to be comfortable with it.

I absolutely agree. Just to avoid misunderstandings: I mentionned Spielberg, because he was the director of the movie, not because he was the Jewish director of the movie and thereby suggesting all Jews had to agree with him.