Russian figure skating news & updates in 2022

[LeafOnTheWind]

It's amazing how people are already bypassing the fact that Tutberidze was drugging children to get the results she did. We still don't have an even playing field if Russia gets to come back and play again without repercussions.

 

[hanca]

If the age rule change was so immaterial to Tutberidze's success, then I wonder why was it such a big deal in Russian media.

Well, let’s wait and see.
Similar hopes were expressed when the rules changed that the skaters couldn’t put all their jumps into the second half of the program. It was supposed to be the end of Tutberidze’s skaters winning. It doesn’t seem it worked that well, did it! Tutberidze just moved to quads. Now she will make sure she has enough skaters to lose a few due to puberty and injuries, and there will be some left to bring the medals. It may not be what you want to hear, I admire your optimism but I prefer to stay in touch with the reality.

 

[hanca]

It's amazing how people are already bypassing the fact that Tutberidze was drugging children to get the results she did. We still don't have an even playing field if Russia gets to come back and play again without repercussions.

Well, Scherbakova and Trusova landed their quads without ever failing drug test…

 

[Trillian]

It's amazing how people are already bypassing the fact that Tutberidze was drugging children to get the results she did. We still don't have an even playing field if Russia gets to come back and play again without repercussions.

Not even bypassing, they’re straight up defending her.

Every single person who celebrates the success of Eteri’s skaters at this point, including posters on this board, is complicit in child abuse. These kids are getting hurt because people in this sport, including fans who actively celebrate the success of training methods that are publicly acknowledged to be abusive, are making it profitable for them to continue getting hurt. If people really want to support these girls, they need to start by acknowledging that the girls are victims of systemic abuse instead of defending the abusers.

 

[Karen-W]

Well, Scherbakova and Trusova landed their quads without ever failing drug test…

Yeah, and as others like to point out... how many Tours did Lance Armstrong win before he was caught? The absence of a positive drug test does not mean they haven't been doped.

 

[LeafOnTheWind]

I am not even close to being an insider and I saw and heard a lot of smoke alarms coming out of the Eteri camp. I would like to see an explanation from the ISU on why they sat around so long without taking any action at all.

 

[Wyliefan]

Well, Scherbakova and Trusova landed their quads without ever failing drug test…

There's an old saying: When you're in a hole, quit digging. You might want to take it to heart.

 

[soogar]

Even without Eteri, Russia still has other skaters. I think Liza could have won that bronze medal if she were at the Games. Eteri, (and Russia) knows how to manage talent. Look at all the Russian coaches refining the quad technique in their skaters. Zhilina is not an Eteri skater. Liza is working on a quad and she's an adult. Eteri had two skaters at the games maintaining quad jumps in older bodies. I think that Kamila's technique is stable enough on her quads that she could probably keep them as well.

 

[Trillian]

Even without Eteri, Russia still has other skaters. I think Liza could have won that bronze medal if she were at the Games.

She’s both an outlier and old enough that she’s not really a product of the current system.

Eteri, (and Russia) knows how to manage talent.

She’s “managing” the talent with child abuse. If you’re celebrating her methods, you’re complicit in the abuse.

Eteri had two skaters at the games maintaining quad jumps in older bodies.

17-year-old bodies are not “older,” and those two girls were hanging on by a thread. Anna had something going on with her back, Sasha had something going on with her foot, and both of them are going to have long-term physical consequences from their skating careers. It’s not going to matter how good anyone’s technique is when their bodies can’t handle the impact of the training anymore.

 

[soogar]

17-year-old bodies are not “older,” and those two girls were hanging on by a thread. Anna had something going on with her back, Sasha had something going on with her foot, and both of them are going to have long-term physical consequences from their skating careers. It’s not going to matter how good anyone’s technique is when their bodies can’t handle the impact of the training anymore.

Peak is 17-18 years old. It was that way even in the era of figures. Peggy was 18. Dorothy 19, Katarina 18 when she won her first gold medal. Most skaters get their peak technical achievements as late teens.

There are a number of ex-skaters who have injuries, not just the girls. Todd and Alexei had hip replacements. Dorothy has Osteoarthritis, Michelle had hip surgery, Tara hip problems. Then there are whole bunch who are just hurting anonymously. I posted that interview by the ice dancer a few posts ago and she said, everyone (boys and girls) have aching backs and knees. Another former skater posted here saying that they still experienced back pain and they weren't even a top elite skater.

No one was screaming that Michelle Kwan was too young. At 17, she was considered "mature." Even in 1998 season, she had a stress fracture, just like Trusova had this season. So doing triples is not that much safer than quads.

 

[Karen-W]

There was another TSL tweet yesterday, this one about Annabelle Morozov -

https://twitter.com/SkatingLesson/status/1533945362016239619?t=BEj4ejEhQsJSituXATb36w&s=19

I spoke with Nikolai Morozov this weekend. He will wait until the end of the ISU Congress to decide if Annabelle will compete for FRA or RUS. He thinks competing for the USA would be too difficult.

 

[PRlady]

Peak is 17-18 years old. It was that way even in the era of figures. Peggy was 18. Dorothy 19, Katarina 18 when she won her first gold medal. Most skaters get their peak technical achievements as late teens.

There are a number of ex-skaters who have injuries, not just the girls. Todd and Alexei had hip replacements. Dorothy has Osteoarthritis, Michelle had hip surgery, Tara hip problems. Then there are whole bunch who are just hurting anonymously. I posted that interview by the ice dancer a few posts ago and she said, everyone (boys and girls) have aching backs and knees. Another former skater posted here saying that they still experienced back pain and they weren't even a top elite skater.

No one was screaming that Michelle Kwan was too young. At 17, she was considered "mature." Even in 1998 season, she had a stress fracture, just like Trusova had this season. So doing triples is not that much safer than quads.

And no one here is objecting to 17 as an age limit. Pre-Russian wonder babies, only Tara and Oksana would have been ineligible for their Oly medals.

I think it’s awfully hard to block puberty until 17, which is a good reason for that age limit. But I do like teams where the youngest skater is as old as Kaori was in 2018 - making it somewhat likely that those youngsters will mature into complete skaters.

 

[Evgeniafan]

And no one here is objecting to 17 as an age limit. Pre-Russian wonder babies, only Tara and Oksana would have been ineligible for their Oly medals.

I think it’s awfully hard to block puberty until 17, which is a good reason for that age limit. But I do like teams where the youngest skater is as old as Kaori was in 2018 - making it somewhat likely that those youngsters will mature into complete skaters.

Sarah Hughes was only 16, so it would have affected her too.

 

[Trillian]

There are a number of ex-skaters who have injuries, not just the girls. Todd and Alexei had hip replacements. Dorothy has Osteoarthritis, Michelle had hip surgery, Tara hip problems. Then there are whole bunch who are just hurting anonymously.

Most of those skaters besides the 15-year-old Olympic champion were physically able to continue skating at a high level well past their teen years. Eteri’s skaters don’t have that option. Even when they want to, like Medvedeva, they can’t, because one way or another, her abusive methods that you like so much have wrecked them before age 20.

But even if we don’t single out a coach and we pretend it’s the same everywhere and all coaches are abusing their skaters to the same degree that Eteri does - which is delusional, but fine, let’s go with it - that doesn’t mean we should be celebrating it. If we see kids getting hurt on a regular basis, the only appropriate response as adults is to consider ways to mitigate the risk that more of them will get hurt in the future. The solutions may be complicated and nothing will be 100% effective. But if you’re an adult fan of figure skating, you have two choices - celebrate the child abuse, or call it out and support efforts to stop it wherever we can.

 

[overedge]

But if you’re an adult fan of figure skating, you have two choices - celebrate the child abuse, or call it out and support efforts to stop it wherever we can.

Younger fans too. No one of any age should be supporting abusive coaching.

 

[Vagabond]

Peak is 17-18 years old. It was that way even in the era of figures. Peggy was 18. Dorothy 19, Katarina 18 when she won her first gold medal. Most skaters get their peak technical achievements as late teens.

Skaters of their era usually retired when they did because of financial considerations that don't exist now. Even Witt would have turned professional if her Federation had allowed her to do so.

Butyrskaya, Malinina, Butyrskaya, Slutskaya, Kwan, Kostner, Suzuki, and Tuktamysheva all earned top-level medals in their mid-twenties or later, finishing ahead of some very good teenagers.

 

[soogar]

Most of those skaters besides the 15-year-old Olympic champion were physically able to continue skating at a high level well past their teen years. Eteri’s skaters don’t have that option. Even when they want to, like Medvedeva, they can’t, because one way or another, her abusive methods that you like so much have wrecked them before age 20.

They can skate at a high level. It depends what you call high level. Medvedeva and Zagitova were doing a respectable amount of triple jumps towards the end of their careers until they got pushed out by the younger skaters doing quads and harder content. Younger skaters always do more jumps because it is easier when younger. Is it still a high level if a skater can only do triples and no longer maintain quads jumps? Does that mean they no longer skate at a high level? Back when it was amateur, athletes got out of competitive skating when they reached their peak and had pro events to compete in. Some skaters like Brian Boitano and Kristy Yamaguchi maintained their difficult jumps, but the majority only kept toe and salchow jumps and maybe a triple axel for the men. People didn't have to skate loaded programs. Zagitova hasn't complained of lingering pain. She endured her fair share of injuries while competing as well.

 

[Trillian]

Medvedeva and Zagitova were doing a respectable amount of triple jumps towards the end of their careers until they got pushed out by the younger skaters doing quads and harder content.

They have both said injuries were a factor and to pretend otherwise is revisionist history. I don’t know anything about Zagitova because she didn’t compete long enough to do anything very interesting, but it has been abundantly clear that Medvedeva would prefer to still be competing and the physical toll of Eteri’s training methods is a big part of the reason she couldn’t.

Plus, even if they were both completely fine now, it wouldn’t make Eteri’s treatment of them that has been publicly disclosed and openly discussed any less unacceptable.

Younger skaters always do more jumps because it is easier when younger.

But that doesn’t mean we have to allow all those jumps in junior competition, and it doesn’t mean we can’t adjust the scoring system (or even properly apply aspects of the existing scoring system) so that we’re no longer incentivizing overtraining of jumps at a young age. Again: if you see kids getting hurt, you have a responsibility to support efforts to prevent that from happening.

 

[airgelaal]

Technically, if it was/is just a matter of sitting out a season to comply with ISU requirements, they could sit out a full season & still go to Worlds, since they didn't compete at Worlds this year. (I don't know the precise dates of the dance events for this season's 4CCs versus last year's Olympics). But, again, unless we hear otherwise, Davis & Smolkin would have to get released. We haven't heard that they have been or that the ISU is overruling the Russian Fed's right to control its athletes' status, as of this point in time.

If I remember the russian rules correctly, then 2 years for those who participated in the russian championships.

 

[Karen-W]

If I remember the russian rules correctly, then 2 years for those who participated in the russian championships.

That's Russia's internal rules for granting a release. The ISU Council can supercede Russia and grant skaters their releases if Russia doesn't want to play.

 

[airgelaal]

That's Russia's internal rules for granting a release. The ISU Council can supercede Russia and grant skaters their releases if Russia doesn't want to play.

There is no guarantee that ISU will do so. It's safer to sit quietly in russia for 2 years. Moreover, you can compete in russia and earn money at local competitions.

 

[Karen-W]

There is no guarantee that ISU will do so. It's safer to sit quietly in russia for 2 years. Moreover, you can compete in russia and earn money at local competitions.

Maybe, maybe not.

Honestly, maybe Gleb and Diana really are against the war and no longer want to represent Russia as a matter of personal integrity. I know it all seems very opportunistic, but I'm willing to give them both the benefit of the doubt, if only because Gleb posted some pretty clear anti-war stuff in the early days of the war and Diana is also an American.

 

[Deleted member 221]

She’s both an outlier and old enough that she’s not really a product of the current system.

Wasn't Tuktamysheva the original meldonium girl? I've found the ups and downs of her career.... strange. In particular, her sharp downturn between 2015 and 2016 is consistent with coming off of performance enhancing drugs. I'm convinced she doped in 2015, and she may be doping now / since her comeback.

As for Eteri, I think she'll change her selection process and take the talented girls who turn 17 just before the Olympics. I suspect birth year will be even more important, and that skaters who will be older than 18 at their first eligible Olympics probably will get passed over.

 

[Trillian]

Wasn't Tuktamysheva the original meldonium girl? I've found the ups and downs of her career.... strange. In particular, her sharp downturn between 2015 and 2016 is consistent with coming off of performance enhancing drugs. I'm convinced she doped in 2015, and she may be doping now / since her comeback.

I want to root for Tut because it’s been nice seeing an adult out there, but yeah - all of this sounds totally plausible to me.

As for Eteri, I think she'll change her selection process and take the talented girls who turn 17 just before the Olympics. I suspect birth year will be even more important, and that skaters who will be older than 18 at their first eligible Olympics probably will get passed over.

I think by the time the Russians are back in international competition, the landscape will look very different and Eteri’s methods will have limited relevance, period.

 

[Wyliefan]

Wasn't Tuktamysheva the original meldonium girl? I've found the ups and downs of her career.... strange. In particular, her sharp downturn between 2015 and 2016 is consistent with coming off of performance enhancing drugs. I'm convinced she doped in 2015, and she may be doping now / since her comeback.

The fact that she did have a downturn suggests that she/her team didn't want to do anything illegal, and so she may very well have stayed away from the drugs since then. I hope so.

 

[On My Own]

This is only tangentially related, but I find it kind of brilliant that this is the first recommended pic for me when I google "Yuna Kim".

I let her expression be mine for this conversation.

 

[Bouffantrex]

Sarah Hughes was only 16, so it would have affected her too.

Poor Sarah, the most forgettable OGM ever, at least prior to the doping Russians era...

 

[PRlady]

Poor Sarah, the most forgettable OGM ever, at least prior to the doping Russians era...

Let’s face it, with the exception of Yuna and (IMO) maybe Shizuka, theOGMs in this century were not skaters for the ages.

 

[Karen-W]

Poor Sarah, the most forgettable OGM ever, at least prior to the doping Russians era...

Oh, come on, Sarah is nowhere near as forgettable as Anett Poetzsch in the pantheon of OGM. And, in the overall scheme of things, in another 12 years, I expect that Adelina Sotnikova will be at the same level as Sarah, maybe even more forgettable. Fans of the Kween will NEVER forget who Sarah is, and they'll be around a lot longer than even the Yuna-bots.

 

[Vagabond]

Poor Sarah, the most forgettable OGM ever, at least prior to the doping Russians era...

I think that you must have forgotten someone.