Aljona Savchenko has been released to the USA to continue her pairs career

[CaliSteve]

Does Bruno Massot not want to compete anymore? Am I missing something?

No, He's been saying that he doesn't want to compete since the last Olympics.

 

[CaliSteve]

I realize the Sappenfield toxic training environment rumors have existed for a long time before Aljona showed up - but somehow, Aljona is to blame for allowing it to continue, or so it would seem with some of the posters here.

The video is being treated, IMO, reading over this thread, as just more proof that Aljona must be the worst person in the world. It's kind of baffling, to be honest, why everyone is so intent on tarring and feathering her when the allegations against Nyman are just that - allegations. Yes, they're serious and disturbing but they are unproven at this point. Like it or not, in the US, the presumption is innocent until proven guilty. The fact that his accuser chose to go the social media route to make the allegations public is problematic to me - it shows a fundamental lack of respect for one of the basic tenets of our justice system.

I really have to wonder what the motivations for the level of vitriol being directed at Aljona for this new partnership really are. It's notable to me that Brynne McIsaac didn't receive this level of criticism for pairing with Nyman even though these accusations against him as well as Sappenfield were out there well before she and he partnered up. Olympics spot aside - who is suddenly scared their favorites might not have such an easy path to a Worlds or 4CCs berth with this new partnership in the mix?

I don't think anyone is blaming Aljona. Everyone is just shocked that she's pairing up with TJ.

 

[olympic]

After my post earlier today, I learn about Tinami Amori and kissing. Does this thread have a bottom???

 

[meggonzo]

I really have to wonder what the motivations for the level of vitriol being directed at Aljona for this new partnership really are. It's notable to me that Brynne McIsaac didn't receive this level of criticism for pairing with Nyman even though these accusations against him as well as Sappenfield were out there well before she and he partnered up. Olympics spot aside - who is suddenly scared their favorites might not have such an easy path to a Worlds or 4CCs berth with this new partnership in the mix?

Because Aljona is an Olympic Champion and a lot of skaters look up to her and it sucks for the victims to see TJ be rewarded with an elite level partnership. It's really not that difficult to understand that people's objections are over alleged abuse and harassment and an abuse apologist coach. You're really doing some mental gymnastics if you think it's because it would hurt someone's favorite team.

 

[Karen-W]

Because Aljona is an Olympic Champion and a lot of skaters look up to her and it sucks for the victims to see TJ be rewarded with an elite level partnership. It's really not that difficult to understand that people's objections are over alleged abuse and harassment and an abuse apologist coach. You're really doing some mental gymnastics if you think it's because it would hurt someone's favorite team.

Just like it sucks that people have chosen to believe the allegations against him simply because they have been made. There are a many reasons why these sort of investigations should be kept confidential instead of being revealed to the public before they are resolved - not the least of which is the many lives ruined. If true, the victims shouldn't have to be subjected to the same sort of shenanigans and shit that Sappenfield pulled in the aftermath of the Coughlin allegations and suicide. Furthermore, if untrue, how does Nyman ever get his own good reputation back?

Aljona skating with him only "rewards" him if you choose to believe the allegations are true.

And, it's not really that much mental gymnastics given the credence people are choosing to give to Chris Knierim's comment on TSL's IG post of the video. Or the "lack of comments/support" from other skaters to Aljona's social media posts in recent days. As if all that is somehow further evidence of how wrong Aljona is.

 

[skatfan]

the latest statement from Liam:

I am inclined to believe Liam. I haven’t done a forensic analysis of the kiss, but if her husband thinks things are ok with hug etc I’m going with that.

still think it’s bad she’s partnering with him though.

 

[Alilou]

And Eric Radford wasn't good enough for her but TJ is?!

Eric wanted a Canadian partner so they could go to the Olympics. Vanessa already has Cdn citizenship

 

[Lemonade20]

Eric wanted a Canadian partner so they could go to the Olympics. Vanessa already has Cdn citizenship

And to think they were once the most controversial pair-up! I'm excited for them, they're both very talented and I can't wait to see them skate. As for the other controversial pair....

 

[skylark]

It was reported on another figure skating forum that TSL took the video in question down about 55 minutes ago.

I am with Liam on this.

 

[Orm Irian]

...I spend the morning of a public holiday doing a professional development seminar on Zoom and figure skating drama throws all this at me? Good grief.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

This is such a freaky thread to read through.

Next, I'm expecting Duhamel to announce her comeback and partner up with a bag of Doritos.

 

[anonymoose_au]

Just like it sucks that people have chosen to believe the allegations against him simply because they have been made.

Are you suggesting the allegations are made up? For what reason? They were made long before Aljona entered the picture so that can't be the motive.

Considering all the crap those who make allegations get, it's pretty unbelievable that multiple people would make them up to get a guy who was pretty much an unknown in trouble.

 

[Karen-W]

Are you suggesting the allegations are made up? For what reason? They were made long before Aljona entered the picture so that can't be the motive.

Considering all the crap those who make allegations get, it's pretty unbelievable that multiple people would make them up to get a guy who was pretty much an unknown in trouble.

No, I'm not suggesting the allegations are made up. What I am suggesting is that they are not yet proven to be fact. Allegation does not equal fact, regardless of how many people have made the allegations.

 

[anonymoose_au]

No, I'm not suggesting the allegations are made up. What I am suggesting is that they are not yet proven to be fact. Allegation does not equal fact, regardless of how many people have made the allegations.

Fact is most allegations can never be proven unless there's video evidence or something.

How can we respect and support survivors who make allegations like this if we're then going to turn around and say unless they can proved beyond a doubt to be true we're just gonna let the accused continue on their merry way?

These aren't "rumours" that the guy is a jerk or even makes sexist jokes, they're straight up r*pe accusations.

 

[kwanfan1818]

If the rule for split couples who placed 1-6 at Worlds was ever in the Announcement, it was in the first year that the concept was introduced and worked differently -- IIRC, they could be part of the alternates list -- and has been omitted since then. (I've been grousing about this for years.) There's a reference to them later in the announcement, but no details about the definition, ie, whether their placement had to be from the last two Worlds, like 7-12 Split Couples, the last ten years, like Return Couples, or something completely different. We simply don't know from the Announcement which it is.

 

[Jeschke]

Where has @Jeschke been?
Not a single peep out of him on this topic?

Re-check the entire thread and ask again!

 

[overedge]

Fact is most allegations can never be proven unless there's video evidence or something.

How can we respect and support survivors who make allegations like this if we're then going to turn around and say unless they can proved beyond a doubt to be true we're just gonna let the accused continue on their merry way?

These aren't "rumours" that the guy is a jerk or even makes sexist jokes, they're straight up r*pe accusations.

And there's allegations from more than one person IIRC. Given what accusers in other cases have been subjected to when they spoke up, I really doubt that anyone would make these kinds of allegations if there wasn't some substance to them.

 

[quiqie]

Liam has also commented on the video on youtube. Scroll down to the "WHERE IS LIAM?"-comment and there he is in the replies. Someone wrote that Liam apparently reacted to the video on Twitter, calling Dave a "tool", but he deleted that comment and claims on YT that he apologized for it.

I'd love to be a fly on the wall wherever Aliona is right now.

Well, whatever one might think of the whole Alyona situation, Dave Lease IS a tool, or, rather, a piece of absolutely toxic human garbage, constantly striving to insert himself in any dumpster fire, so why would Liam feel the need to apologize, I have no idea.

 

[Ananas Astra]

TSL have put the YT video on private and deleted the excerpt from Instagram.

 

[skatingguy]

After my post earlier today, I learn about Tinami Amori and kissing. Does this thread have a bottom???

I'm going to assume that that question was rhetorical.

 

[ballettmaus]

"Taken out of context"? I'm trying to think of a training context in which those actions would be appropriate. Especially since the coach left partway through the hug, and missed the kiss.

I don't know. I just think that if someone calls someone else a tool, they're doing so because they believe that that someone is trying to deliberately start rumors/stir things up and not because they're taken by surprise by a video they believe to be accurately portraying what happened.

She won't be eligible to represent the US at the Olympics until she's a citizen

And I suspect this is what she's after. I have a hard time believing she wants to return to competition for Worlds or Nationals (or 4CCs).

and how long that will take is unknown.

Didn't Tanith Belbin have an expedited process that took 5 years due to a delay caused by 9/11?

 

[MacMadame]

Didn't Tanith Belbin have an expedited process that took 5 years due to a delay caused by 9/11?

She did and it wasn't a given that she'd get it because apparently, the US doesn't like to give people citizenship just because they are good athletes. IMO I don't think Aliona would get expedited citizenship because it's not like she would have gotten by it by 2022 if something out of her control hadn't happened. If she does everything correctly and by the book and isn't on track to get it by 2026, then maybe she'll get it like Tanith did. But there are no guarantees.

 

[Xela M]

Eric wanted a Canadian partner so they could go to the Olympics. Vanessa already has Cdn citizenship

Which makes a lot of sense. Aljona's pairing on the other hand...

 

[Quadjump]

Which makes a lot of sense. Aljona's pairing on the other hand...

If Aljona is in love with TJ this all makes more sence. We all do not know what she sees in him. I agree with some others who wrote that maybe Aljona felt a bit bored at home with nothing really to do except a bit of coaching.

I have once read that Eric had ask Aljona in the past. I do believe that from a sportive point of view Aljona and TJ have better chances than Aljona and Eric. It is a new pair and she can sculpture him like she wants.

She has never done anything else than skating in competition.

 

[Xela M]

If Aljona is in love with TJ this all makes more sence. We all do not know what she sees in him. I agree with some others who wrote that maybe Aljona felt a bit bored at home with nothing really to do except a bit of coaching.

I have once read that Eric had ask Aljona in the past. I do believe that from a sportive point of view Aljona and TJ have better chances than Aljona and Eric. It is a new pair and she can sculpture him like she wants.

She has never done anything else than skating in competition.

Given that her husband seems to think it's all above board, I don't get this pairing at all! She's nearly 40 years old. There's only so much 'sculpting' that she would be able to do. And given that they can't go to these Olympics, what on earth is the point in all of this?!

 

[BittyBug]

Didn't Tanith Belbin have an expedited process that took 5 years due to a delay caused by 9/11?

I thought the situation was that the rules were changed while Tanith had already started her citizenship process, and the act that granted her eligibility for citizenship was a correction to a quirk in the law that penalized her for having started the process prior to the rule change. As importantly, the act corrected this issue broadly - not specifically to Tanith or any other athlete.

 

[ballettmaus]

She did and it wasn't a given that she'd get it because apparently, the US doesn't like to give people citizenship just because they are good athletes. IMO I don't think Aliona would get expedited citizenship because it's not like she would have gotten by it by 2022 if something out of her control hadn't happened. If she does everything correctly and by the book and isn't on track to get it by 2026, then maybe she'll get it like Tanith did. But there are no guarantees.

I think the only "by the book" exception to the 5-year waiting period is marriage. Then it's two years. But if she does everything by the book and isn't granted an exception, then she would have needed to have gotten the visa enabling her to apply for citizenship about a year ago, maybe even a little earlier (the process took less than a year for my parents but I don't recall the exact time).

I thought the situation was that the rules were changed while Tanith had already started her citizenship process, and the act that granted her eligibility for citizenship was a correction to a quirk in the law that penalized her for having started the process prior to the rule change. As importantly, the act corrected this issue broadly - not specifically to Tanith or any other athlete.

All I remember is that 9/11 happened and affected her citizenship application and that it was news here.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Back in the day, I remember when the hype machine kicked into gear with the pairing of Shae-Lynne Bourne and Peter Tchernyshev (after both of their respective eligible careers ended). They even scored the cover of BLADES ON ICE with their announcement. It was a bit embarrassing for everyone involved when nothing came of the partnership, and they never actually competed.

 

[olympic]

No, I'm not suggesting the allegations are made up. What I am suggesting is that they are not yet proven to be fact. Allegation does not equal fact, regardless of how many people have made the allegations.

I get it. Innocent until proven guilty is a cornerstone of our justice system.

 

[starrynight]

@Yehudi is correct. Some skaters “choreograph” everything right down to how they act in the Kiss & Cry. I know for a fact that skaters of one of the most revered coaches in skating does so.

Is this Marina Zoueva's make all the dancers like Gordeeva + Grinkov mission?

Yes, I definitely recall examples of choreographed intimate interactions to hype up 'connection and chemistry' at official practices etc etc. Although in dance that kind of thing matters more as finishing and branding are paramount. (But I do query the wisdom of that ... I think that kind of 'hidden choreography' created a monster for Virture/Moir that they struggled to control in the end. In a world of social networks and smart phones, nothing is 'just for the competition').

New pairs teams would be better off getting their elements smooth -- the finishing touches only really add value when the elements are there.