ISU has cancelled 2021 Europeans, ISU Grand Prix Final, World Junior Synchro; Stockholm Worlds still on for now

[Theatregirl1122]

Was there a point where you could get them at junior competitions and then it changed? For some reason I thought I remembered junior competitions counting for a while.

 

[missing]

The soon to begin Australian Open has quarantined 500-600 players and personnel due to a positive test from a someone who worked at a hotel.

Between 500 and 600 players, officials and staff at the Australian Open will go into self-isolation after a positive coronavirus case was identified at one of the event's quarantine hotels.

Victorian Premier Daniel Andrews confirmed on Wednesday that a 26-year-old man, who had been working as a resident support officer for the Australian Open, has tested positive for the virus.

Up to 600 people associated with the tournament have been identified as casual contacts of the man and will now need to self-isolate until they receive a negative test.

It's clearly not easy to run an international sporting event these days.

 

[kwanfan1818]

The only argument I could see is for the RD, since the patterns are different and the junior pattern would often be considered easier. But I agree.

They could do a calibration/set the RD minimum differently for juniors, or they could do a video review of the team doing the senior RD for any junior team who is assigned to the World team provisionally, which would be a limited number of teams internationally.

Was there a point where you could get them at junior competitions and then it changed? For some reason I thought I remembered junior competitions counting for a while.

I seem to remember this, too. If they want to be more rigorous for juniors, they could limit participation in senior championships using only ISU comp TES from JGP, Jr. Worlds, and YOG.

 

[Colonel Green]

They could do a calibration/set the RD minimum differently for juniors, or they could do a video review of the team doing the senior RD for any junior team who is assigned to the World team provisionally, which would be a limited number of teams internationally.

Functionally I think junior dance is the discipline you’d least have to worry about, since the differing RD requirements mean that almost nobody does a split season anyway.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Functionally I think junior dance is the discipline you’d least have to worry about, since the differing RD requirements mean that almost nobody does a split season anyway.

What I suggested would be an exception with a separate process. Some junior teams can decide to compete senior at Nationals, prepping for them after the JGP season ends in early Fall.

 

[Erin]

Was there a point where you could get them at junior competitions and then it changed? For some reason I thought I remembered junior competitions counting for a while.

Yes. I believe this change was made in 2016, as I recall some of the Canadian men like Nadeau and Sadovsky going to events like 2016 Golden Spin to try to get senior TES minimums, when that hadn't had to happen before.

The rule change never made sense to me and there is no logical reason for it except to increase entries in senior B events and Challenger series events by younger skaters who may not be on the Grand Prix (whether it's because they are still competing on the JGP or because they just don't get on the invite list). Maybe that's what the ISU intended, but it seems like those events are all well-attended enough that they don't really need the extra entries. If a skater can get the TES with one less element, they have shown they have the quality to go to Euros/4CC/Worlds, which is what was supposed to be the point of this policy. I'm glad they are making the exception for this season and I would also love to see this one stay.

 

[skatingguy]

I'm not really sure where to put this but discussion of whether Canada will take part in Worlds & whether that will impact our ability to send athletes to the Beijing Olympics may be moot, because there is growing discussion of a Canadian boycott of the games. It's mostly coming from the opposition Conservatives at this point, and I'm not sure whether it's really a serious discussion of boycotting or just a way putting pressure on the government to put more pressure on China. Between the 'Two Michaels', ecnonmic sanctions, and the recent revelation that the Chinese government blocked shipments of a potential vaccine candidate that was to be tested & manufactured in Canada by a Chinese-Canadian company there is growing pressure on the government to strike back & embarrass the Chinese.

Conservatives urge feds to consider boycot Beijing Olympics over China tensions

The federal Conservatives are urging the Trudeau government to consider a boycott of the 2022 Winter Olympics being held in Beijing.

www.citynews1130.com

 

[Frau Muller]

Something similar is being floated in the US but latest signals from US OC is that the US won’t boycott.

U.S. signals no plans to boycott 2022 Beijing Winter Olympics after genocide designation

U.S. President Joe Biden's administration is signaling it currently has no plans to bar American athletes' participation in the Beijing 2022 Winter Olympics, despite mounting calls for the Games to be moved over China's human rights record.

www.reuters.com

 

[4rkidz]

I think our Australian friends just see how they were able to get control of things early and stay on top of it and wish it could have been the same for the rest of us in the world. I can see how mind boggling it is to them to see other countries struggling.

I agree Australia should be commended for getting tough straight away and not shamed by those of you from countries who didn’t and now are paying the price (including my country). Now many of us are in lockdown but if we had acted earlier and not sent the kids back to school we would have avoided it.

With regards to the boycott I do appreciate the frustration with China but I hate politics becoming part of this and influencing athletes. I think we should just let the athletes compete .. especially as none of us boycotted the USA when they were putting kids in jails etc

 

[Carolla5501]

So the politicians in Canada think the people that should pay for this are the young people who are supposed to go to the Olympics. Canada seems to be copying the United States and USSR but I’m not sure they’re copying the right things.

 

[Vagabond]

So the politicians in Canada think the people that should pay for this are the young people who are supposed to go to the Olympics. Canada seems to be copying the United States and USSR but I’m not sure they’re copying the right things.

If Canada were to boycott the Olympics, it would be taking a leaf from its own book. It boycotted the 1980 Summer Olympics.

Incidentally, China itself boycotted those Games.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_Summer_Olympics_boycott#Non-participating_countries

 

[allezfred]

Was there a point where you could get them at junior competitions and then it changed? For some reason I thought I remembered junior competitions counting for a while.

The reason it got changed was to close the loophole whereby a junior skater could do a double as their solo jump and a double-double as their combination in a junior competition SP to get the TES for say Euros (yes, it was possible).

 

[Theatregirl1122]

The reason it got changed was to close the loophole whereby a junior skater could do a double as their solo jump and a double-double as their combination in a junior competition SP to get the TES for say Euros (yes, it was possible).

Gotcha, whereas in a senior SP, only one of those three doubles would count.

 

[seabm7]

I posted about the Korean national (Feb. 24-26) on another thread:

Korean skating news & updates

Here is the list of skaters with both of the minimum TES for the 2021 worlds: Men Junhwan CHA June Hyoung LEE Sihyeong LEE Ladies Yujin CHOI Hanul KIM Yelim KIM Eunsoo LIM Soyoun PARK (retired) Jihun TO Young YOU Haein LEE (now senior eligible) Seoyeong WI (now senior eligible) Ice Dance...

www.fsuniverse.net

 

[mackiecat]

Here is a thought for the Olympics. Say they want to limit the entries to 30 for singles. Let every country have a max of three entries but from that pool, the top 30 scores from the ISU events of March 21-Jan 2022 qualify.

 

[kwanfan1818]

The reason it got changed was to close the loophole whereby a junior skater could do a double as their solo jump and a double-double as their combination in a junior competition SP to get the TES for say Euros (yes, it was possible).

But they could have recalculated "qualifying basis" by senior rules or simply counted only those where the elements qualified. For the latter, that would be harsher than for seniors, who could earn them with a solo double jump or a 2/2 combo, but probably not both, at least for the Worlds minimums, but that would be the trade-off. They have the protocols, to which they could apply algorithms programatically, even readjusting TES to the maximum that a double solo and/or 2/2 combo could earn in seniors.

 

[allezfred]

But they could have recalculated "qualifying basis" by senior rules or simply counted only those where the elements qualified. For the latter, that would be harsher than for seniors, who could earn them with a solo double jump or a 2/2 combo, but probably not both, at least for the Worlds minimums, but that would be the trade-off. They have the protocols, to which they could apply algorithms programatically, even readjusting TES to the maximum that a double solo and/or 2/2 combo could earn in seniors.

Well, they didn’t.

 

[gkelly]

harsher than for seniors, who could earn them with a solo double jump or a 2/2 combo, but probably not both,

Not sure what you mean. The only double jumps that count for anything in a senior short program now are ONE of the jumps in the combination, and the axel.

The other jump in the combination gets 0 points if it isn't triple (or quad for men), and GOE for the double that does count must be -5 regardless of how well a 2+2 might be performed.

A double solo jump in a senior SP gets 0 points, regardless of how well performed or what the skater did in the combination.

So the maximum points for jumps a skater can earn in a senior SP without attempting any triples would be 1.05 for a double lutz (2.10 base value) with -5 GOE in the combination, plus whatever they get for the double axel -- even if they get +5, for a total of 4.95 on that element, that's a maximum of 6.0 for jumps in a senior SP with no attempted triples.

Are there enough points available in the spins and steps to make up the difference between 6.0 and the senior minimums?

 

[kwanfan1818]

A double solo jump in a senior SP gets 0 points, regardless of how well performed or what the skater did in the combination.

Thank you for the correction: I though they changed this to giving -5 GOE credit to the much smaller base value of the double or single jump for the solo jump.

I never claimed that it was a great number of points difference that asenior could earn with content that didn't meet the stated requirements, just that it was harsher, and the senior skaters who've barely made their SP minimums are happy to take it, however small. It would make the programming a lot easier to take the protocol and to zero out any solo jump with less than three rotations, unless the jump qualified for the axel spot.

As far as whether a skater could make up the points with the other elements, between base levels and most of us have equal access to the documentation/tables from which we could figure it out. Any specific spin requirements would impact the the total possible.points based on where it fit into the GOE scales and base value.

 

[gkelly]

Thank you for the correction: I though they changed this to giving -5 GOE credit to the much smaller base value of the double or single jump for the solo jump.

That was originally the case (early in the +3/-3 days), but they changed it several years ago from that to no points at all.

 

[kwanfan1818]

That was originally the case (early in the +3/-3 days), but they changed it several years ago from that to no points at all.

I thought they changed it back, under the theory that everyone should get some credit for what they attempt, even if they don't get called for the required number of rotations, separate from quality and mandatory deductions that are different for the SP.

But, clearly not.

 

[thvu]

I thought they changed it back, under the theory that everyone should get some credit for what they attempt, even if they don't get called for the required number of rotations, separate from quality and mandatory deductions that are different for the SP.

But, clearly not.

You may be thinking about the Yuna rule about doubles, where a 3rd repeated double jump invalidated an entire combination. Now, just the 3rd double is invalidated, but the other jump(s) in combination still get credit.