ISU Grand Prix Assignments 2018/19 season

[Carolla5501]

So maybe part of the solution to getting more participation in the Grand Prix is to quit requiring the Grand Prix hosts to underwrite the travel costs and require them to have 18 spots instead of the 12 now?

 

[Coco]

Or maybe giving all Grand Prix medalists direct entry to World Championships in addition to their country's allocated spots. The short program or Rhythm dance could be used as a a filter so that a country can only send as many competitors to the free skate or free dance as they had original spots for.

 

[Moustaffask8r]

Because even if she leaves USA Federation and skates for another country, at the worlds and olympics she still will have to skate against Tennell and Bell (or other ladies who are beating her at US Nationals), and she will loose to them Internationally, just like she did at Nationals.

... and here is another point, which i suspect some people will not agree with, and lets not pick on Alexia, but make it "general". If a US girl picks to skate for "obscure country A", and she is not as good as top US skaters, but better than "obscure country A" skaters, then she is taking away the chances from the girls born in that country. If there are circumstances where the whole family immigrates to "obscure country A" for political, employment, escaping various forms of disaster, then it is one thing. But one switched countries strictly for convenience of skating, then it is not fair to local skaters born there.

Oh My!!!! Don't you know Isabella Tobias!!!!!! She switched country twice to be at the Olympics!
The difference with Alexia is that I think she actualy had citizenship prior to switching for Switz.

 

[kwanfan1818]

I actually think USFS made a big mistake by releasing her

I don't think they should be allowed to make a "mistake" or not. Holding onto skaters, especially when they have been self-funded far more than their federation has ever given them, is unconscionable; had the small federations not voted against Germany's proposal to amend the ISU Constitution to have a maximum hold period, that would be not be possible.

Because even if she leaves USA Federation and skates for another country, at the worlds and olympics she still will have to skate against Tennell and Bell (or other ladies who are beating her at US Nationals), and she will loose to them Internationally, just like she did at Nationals.

Tell that to Dianne de Leeuw. Or Keegan Messing. Or Samuel Contesti. Or who knows where Misha Ge would have been, had he skated for China or Russia, his parents' countries.

And, what @vesperholly said:

There's no way to know how Paganini would have progressed had she continued to represent the US. Perhaps being exposed to GP/World/Olympic level competition helped push her skills along.

It’s not just about the money - given FB/S training situation it’s clear they have had money available - but about the federations general influence.

Quebec has better financial support for its skaters than any other province or territory, and now that he's a PR, their results starting this season could qualify them for National Team or Olympic funds. (I think the rules are that they can get one or the other each.)

Also, there is no minimum TES requirement to enter a JGP... its purpose is developmental.

Or not JGP total minimums. The ISU touts GP as "the best of the best," which is the opposite of developmental, unless we're talk Russian or Japanese Ladies.

The difference with Alexia is that I think she actualy had citizenship prior to switching for Switz.

According to her ISU bio, her father is Swiss (and her mother is Dutch).

 

[Vagabond]

Tell that to Dianne de Leeuw.

Dianne de Leeuw never tried to switch federations. She always represented the Netherlands. Doing so allowed her to compete internationally earlier than she likely would have done had she represented the U.S. (She was nineenth at Euros in 1971, when she was fifteen. By contrast, had she competed at U.S. Nationals that year, she would have faced, among others, Julie Lynn Holmes, Janet Lynn, and Suna Murray, who were, respectively second, fourth, and tenth at that season's World Championships.

It was a similar story for Seattle-born Susanna Driano, who first competed internationally representing Italy in 1975, when she was sixth at Euros and ninth at Worlds but would have had to face Dorothy Hamill, Wendy Burge, and Kath Malmberg, all of whom finished in the top five at that season's Worlds.

 

[tony]

So maybe part of the solution to getting more participation in the Grand Prix is to quit requiring the Grand Prix hosts to underwrite the travel costs and require them to have 18 spots instead of the 12 now?

18 spots will never happen. That would surely add another day to the competition (although several stops this year opted for the three-day schedule anyways) and the ISU is all about making the competitions move along quickly. That’s an additional 36 spots in ladies and men’s events, and while it would be nice to see some of the skaters from smaller countries who didn’t get events because of their world ranking or seasons best, it is meant to be the elite series for the first half of the season. I know it’s also unfortunate for the big-name countries and skaters missing out even with high standings, but spreading out 18 assignments seems fair.

The Challenger Series was basically instituted as a way for these on the bubble skaters to get more events in a circuit of their own and then get the scores to be considered either that same season after withdrawals or for the next season.

My one idea that I’ve floated around for the last 6 years or so is to allow the three medalists in the GPFinal a wildcard entry into the World Championships- ie. they go without using a spot for their country. Of course, it’s likely to be the powerhouse countries taking all the spots, but A) it gives those skaters an incentive to competing in the series rather than withdrawing for whatever reasons and B) it gives the skaters below them a chance to make the big events as well.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Dianne de Leeuw never tried to switch federations. She always represented the Netherlands. Doing so allowed her to compete internationally earlier than she likely would have done had she represented the U.S. (She was nineenth at Euros in 1971, when she was fifteen. By contrast, had she competed at U.S. Nationals that year, she would have faced, among others, Julie Lynn Holmes, Janet Lynn, and Suna Murray, who were, respectively second, fourth, and tenth at that season's World Championships.

The point is that skating for the Netherlands, she gained experience and worked up the ranks, eventually beating most skaters from the US at championships and the Olympics, while had she skated for the US, she might not have gotten to championships, or if she had, she'd likely have been ranked as US #3 without the chance to establish a reputation and wait her turn in the figures era.

It was a similar story for Seattle-born Susanna Driano, who first competed internationally representing Italy in 1975, when she was sixth at Euros and ninth at Worlds but would have had to face Dorothy Hamill, Wendy Burge, and Kath Malmberg, all of whom finished in the top five at that season's Worlds.

There is a very long list of skaters who chose a smaller Federation and placed lower at championships than skaters who went to championships from the larger Federation. Silvia Fontana was another Lady with a US passport who chose to skate for Italy; her competition in the US at the time she first competed for Italy internationally were Kerrigan, Ervin, Kwiatkowsky, Harding, Kwan, and Bobek, and a couple of years later, Lipinski.

 

[Tinami Amori]

Oh My!!!! Don't you know Isabella Tobias!!!!!! She switched country twice to be at the Olympics! The difference with Alexia is that I think she actualy had citizenship prior to switching for Switz.

First of all, i don't think it is decent to switch countries "just to be at the Olympics", i call it immoral, given the medalists have their flags raised and winner's country anthem played... But i said this 1000 times already. And, i have no issues with Alexia (if you note my post regarding her).

 

[screech]

Quebec has better financial support for its skaters than any other province or territory

Yep! Which is why despite Duhamel and Radford both being extremely proud Northern Ontarians, they represented Quebec (I believe she did with Buntin too). They got $$ for doing so, but if they represented NO, no money.

 

[kwanfan1818]

It makes it great for Gauthier and Marcotte, who have their pick of skaters.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Considering none of Canada's top skaters of the last decade or so are competing this year, I think that Keegan being first alternate is a huge accomplishment, especially since before this season he'd never placed higher than 5th at a GP event. His 7th place in the overall rankings is also the highest GP series ranking of any non-Chan Canadian male since 05/06 (that year we had 2 men actually qualify for the GPF).

Another positive is that despite being 3rd alternates, MT-M have had their best GP season to date (3rd and 4th). The 'disappointment' IMO is that Gilles/Poirier are only second alternates.

Gilles & Poirier were probably in the two most packed dance fields at their allotted events. That they medalled at both is still a huge accomplishment.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

It's nice if skaters attending a Junior Grand Prix at least have the minimum technical level required for international competition. to treat such events like a learning curve, and a solid stepping stone to the future.

However, that would also explain how the pair who went to the JPG in Taipei City twelve years back came off looking like a massive insurance liability to everyone else, as well as a legitimate danger to themselves. From memory, I don't they were given positive credit for a single element (of those that were actually acknowledged). They couldn't even do a hockey stop.

 

[Colonel Green]

Gilles & Poirier were probably in the two most packed dance fields at their allotted events. That they medalled at both is still a huge accomplishment.

I wouldn't say "huge accomplishment"; they were favoured to do no worse than bronze at both their assignments.

Both they and Kirsten/Michael ended up having uniquely bad assignments, though, despite performing well, due to a combination of withdrawals and just bad performances in the other events. KMT/Marinaro's SCI score would have been good for gold or silver at any of the events that they didn't complete at, and they're third alternates behind two teams who got silver medals with weakish or weak scores (especially Efimova/Korovin, whose 178.98 at SkAm wouldn't have sniffed the podium at any of the other events).

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

18 spots will never happen

Agreed.. i think ISU will keep chopping and not adding.

CD was eliminated in Dance, Now the mens and Pairs are down to 4 minutes..Give it another 10 years and skaters will FaceTime their programs to the judges or submit via apps.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Agreed.. i think ISU will keep chopping and not adding.

CD was eliminated in Dance, Now the mens and Pairs are down to 4 minutes..Give it another 10 years and skaters will FaceTime their programs to the judges or submit via apps.

Three teams. Two elements each. Only one can be declared the winner!
Grand Prix Series Final Death Challenge!

Actually, I'm waiting for the day that the athletes race each other around the rink like the time the Japanese Figure Skating Association used those cute go cart zambonis to resurface the ice at the world championships in Saitama.

 

[Carolla5501]

Oh My!!!! Don't you know Isabella Tobias!!!!!! She switched country twice to be at the Olympics!
The difference with Alexia is that I think she actualy had citizenship prior to switching for Switz.

You missed a country

1. USA
2. Georgia
3. Lithuania
4. Israel


And my personal favorites were always the Reeds. Between them they have 5 countries I think

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

My one idea that I’ve floated around for the last 6 years or so is to allow the three medalists in the GPFinal a wildcard entry into the World Championships- ie. they go without using a spot for their country. Of course, it’s likely to be the powerhouse countries taking all the spots, but A) it gives those skaters an incentive to competing in the series rather than withdrawing for whatever reasons and B) it gives the skaters below them a chance to make the big events as well.

I'd like to see the day when athletes are entered into the world championships based on ranking points and points they have earned. Until a few years ago, qualifying rounds served that purpose to a point before the main event, as it were.

Meaning, like international tennis, more than a maximum number of three per country can be entered. But in effect, while a world championship may end up looking like Russian or Japanese nationals, the best of the best would take part.

Otherwise, Europeans and Four Continents could act as pre-qualification for all countries. Not just USA and Canada sending their B Teams from time to time, as a booby prize for athletes who finished fourth at their respective national championships.

 

[tony]

I'd like to see the day when athletes are entered into the world championships based on ranking points and points they have earned. Until a few years ago, qualifying rounds served that purpose to a point before the main event, as it were.

Meaning, like international tennis, more than a maximum number of three per country can be entered. But in effect, while a world championship may end up looking like Russian or Japanese nationals, the best of the best would take part.

Otherwise, Europeans and Four Continents could act as pre-qualification for all countries. Not just USA and Canada sending their B Teams from time to time, as a booby prize for athletes who finished fourth at their respective national championships.

I believe the reasoning for all World Championships in sport (or at least in sports where there are Olympics) is that all nations must have a fair shot at being represented. A long time ago I remember a thread and someone brought up a rule saying something of this nature, but I don’t remember the specifics. Yes, a Worlds with 8 Japanese ladies and probably about 12 Russian ladies would be amazing, but that’s not how any of the Worlds work in any other sports, either. Gymnastics keeps lowering the amount of athletes in the team event and to have a chance at all-around individual gold, you have to be in the top two of your own nation during that team event.

Tennis doesn’t have an ultimate ‘World’ Championship, but they do have the four Major events that are done in a qualifying way- much like it takes to get on the GP in the first place. They also have two weeks to complete many events and the top finishers play more times than any skater could imagine skating.

While the ‘best of the best all in one competition’ is something we all dream of, I doubt we ever see it even close to happening.

 

[Yehudi]

You missed a country

1. USA
2. Georgia
3. Lithuania
4. Israel


And my personal favorites were always the Reeds. Between them they have 5 countries I think

Well to be fair, most of the country hopping was done by one sibling. The other 2 switched early on and to a country they at least had ties to, with Cathy choosing to live there after retirement

 

[Rhino]

I believe the reasoning for all World Championships in sport (or at least in sports where there are Olympics) is that all nations must have a fair shot at being represented. A long time ago I remember a thread and someone brought up a rule saying something of this nature, but I don’t remember the specifics. Yes, a Worlds with 8 Japanese ladies and probably about 12 Russian ladies would be amazing, but that’s not how any of the Worlds work in any other sports, either. Gymnastics keeps lowering the amount of athletes in the team event and to have a chance at all-around individual gold, you have to be in the top two of your own nation during that team event.

Tennis doesn’t have an ultimate ‘World’ Championship, but they do have the four Major events that are done in a qualifying way- much like it takes to get on the GP in the first place. They also have two weeks to complete many events and the top finishers play more times than any skater could imagine skating.

While the ‘best of the best all in one competition’ is something we all dream of, I doubt we ever see it even close to happening.

I really like your idea of having the 3 wildcards with them being the top 3 finishers at the GPF.

Such an approach would strengthen the field, but without fundamentally detracting from the nature of the competition. Also it would it make it more attractive to viewers/TV companies which has to be good thing - the World Champs this year could be a bit under-powered what with the probable/possible lack of the top Canadian Ladies/Carolina Kostner, and only 2 American Ladies.

 

[Moustaffask8r]

Yep! Which is why despite Duhamel and Radford both being extremely proud Northern Ontarians, they represented Quebec (I believe she did with Buntin too). They got $$ for doing so, but if they represented NO, no money.

Don't mean anything bad for saying it but Virtue and Moir also switch to Quebec section!!! after being Western Ontario for ever....

 

[Erin]

the World Champs this year could be a bit under-powered what with the probable/possible lack of the top Canadian Ladies/Carolina Kostner, and only 2 American Ladies.

I’m not really sure that a third American lady would add much to Worlds this year

 

[soogar]

I don't know who pays for Alexia Paganini's skating, but I can certainly understand why an ambitious and reasonably talented young skater, surrounded in her country by other ambitious and reasonably talented young skaters, could decide to compete for a country that would send her to Worlds and the Olympics, rather than sticking with her birthplace country where she'd have much less likelihood of success at that level.

Well it looks like her father has his own import business http://www.bellavitafoods.com/about/our-story/ and being based in New York, where it is expensive to skate, I'm sure her family supports her skating. Most of these skaters bear the costs of training; why not compete for a federation that will send you to the Olympics and Worlds?

Majority of skaters aren't going to win medals at top events, however having that competitive experience is meaningful for a coaching and/or choreography career. It looks good on a resume to have that experience and the best coaches/choreographers aren't the top skaters.

 

[Vagabond]

4. Israel

Except that Isabella Tobias didn't actually compete at the Olympics for Israel.

Chalk that one up to credulity -- both hers and her partner's.

 

[soogar]

First of all, i don't think it is decent to switch countries "just to be at the Olympics", i call it immoral, given the medalists have their flags raised and winner's country anthem played... But i said this 1000 times already. And, i have no issues with Alexia (if you note my post regarding her).

Please, people move from country to country to find better opportunities. I think the Olympics is outdated with clinging to nationality. Mountain climbing has become a demonstration sport for the summer games. the top 20 men and women were invited, regardless of countries. There are so many rich people competing for nothing countries just to get a trip to the games. It's a waste of time to have some last place cross country skier representing a tropical country who had just strapped on skis for 6 months bringing up the rear in an event.

 

[toddlj]

I’m not really sure that a third American lady would add much to Worlds this year

Harsh, but probably true. A couple possibilities:
1. Let's see how Karen Chen does this morning in Tallinn.
2. Ting Cui's ~70 short program SB score would be competitive enough to get her in the mix, but it's high-risk and she's still green (and probably destined for Junior worlds.)

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

I really like your idea of having the 3 wildcards with them being the top 3 finishers at the GPF.

Such an approach would strengthen the field, but without fundamentally detracting from the nature of the competition. Also it would it make it more attractive to viewers/TV companies which has to be good thing - the World Champs this year could be a bit under-powered what with the probable/possible lack of the top Canadian Ladies/Carolina Kostner, and only 2 American Ladies.

Same.

With Osmond sitting out the year and Daleman struggling with health issues, will Canada be able to maintain two spots for 2020 Montreal? The magic number they need is 28 points, and with a top fifteen potentially claimed by 3 ladies from Russia, 3 from Japan, 2 from the USA, and 1 each from Belgium, Italy, Korea, Finland, Kazakhstan, Germany and France, meeting that goal is going to be very tough.

 

[Erin]

Same.

With Osmond sitting out the year and Daleman struggling with health issues, will Canada be able to maintain two spots for 2020 Montreal? The magic number they need is 27 points.

28 points

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

28 points

Thanks, Teach. Still a big ask, though.

 

[believed]

I’m not sure where to put this so I’ll put this here for now:

Yuzuru Hanyu has withdrawn from the GPF https://twitter.com/kyodonewsports/status/1067994033643896833?s=21