Papadakis/Cizeron #7 - A Matter of Confidentiality

[Peepsquick]

Were you there....who is everyone...another mystery of your own making, alack!
Why do you always have to throw shade and innuendo and bring forth all kinds of conspiracy theories. Move on...I have . I supported PC since 2015 August when I saw them in Barrie and I will continue to be their fan.

Was it the autumn classic? I found a couple of videos ...

 

[alain06fr]

Were you there....who is everyone...another mystery of your own making, alack!
Why do you always have to throw shade and innuendo and bring forth all kinds of conspiracy theories. Move on...I have . I supported PC since 2015 August when I saw them in Barrie and I will continue to be their fan.

Feel free to believe in fary tales saying that thousands of north koreans suddenly built signs in a language they don’t speak a word, then payed a fortune for OG seats just to cheer V/M and no one else! ? ?

 

[alain06fr]

You are really lucky to have seen them so many times live!

True but I missed Shanghai! ?
Anyhow, watching P/C’s performances inside an arena is definitely a very special and amazing moment. You can feel it yourself and you can see it on the face of the people. In Milan, when G&G were about to start their FD, a lady seating next to me simply said “Ohhh these two are so different just like they come from another planet”. Everything was said.

 

[GreenGan]

Oh that would be fun to see. Do you have any idea of what type of music would go with that and suit them?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6yyUvl-wE0 maybe ? Not exactly joyful, but it's full of energy and it's empowering methinks.

 

[Emdee]

Was it the autumn classic? I found a couple of videos ...

Yes, it was the Autumn Classic. I was totally blown away and it was instant love...

 

[lauravvv]

Don’t be that naive. Everyone knew that these north coreans didn’t have the money to buy that many expensive seats. None of them spoke a word of english but they managed to build so many fancy signs in english! LOL

Feel free to believe in fary tales saying that thousands of north koreans suddenly built signs in a language they don’t speak a word, then payed a fortune for OG seats just to cheer V/M and no one else! ? ?

Emdee was talking about South Koreans, not North Koreans. There was no delegation of 2000 North Koreans at the Olympics - they were there and they were very noticeable, but their number was much smaller than that. That is your own fantasy which you have made up to explain why V/M got the reaction they got because in your mind no one apart from an extremely select number of V/M "ubers" could possibly be moved by them and/or like them that much.

Sorry to everyone else here. I come to this thread every day to read news and discussions about P/C and I am waiting to see their programs with great impatience, as I absolutely love them and am also very excited about the direction which they may choose now. I usually don't post, though (actually I don't post all that often at all), but here my patience came to an end for a moment.

 

[Orm Irian]

I come to this thread every day to read news and discussions about P/C

Precisely, and conspiracy theories constitute neither news nor discussion.

So, do we think Guillaume designed Morgan Cipres's costume as well as Vanessa James's for their short program? Because it does look rather like his style...

 

[Peepsquick]

Precisely, and conspiracy theories constitute neither news nor discussion.

So, do we think Guillaume designed Morgan Cipres's costume as well as Vanessa James's for their short program? Because it does look rather like his style...

I don't think so ... a bit flashier than what he does these days imo.
But I can't wait to see Vanessa skate in her new outfits (I am biased towards her catsuits ... love them!)

 

[Emdee]

I don't think so ... a bit flashier than what he does these days imo.
But I can't wait to see Vanessa skate in her new outfits (I am biased towards her catsuits ... love them!)

After Aliona has given up her catsuits we now have Vanessa’s.

 

[Orm Irian]

I don't think so ... a bit flashier than what he does these days imo.
But I can't wait to see Vanessa skate in her new outfits (I am biased towards her catsuits ... love them!)

The sleek lines reminded me of some of Guillaume's FD costumes - while still retaining Morgan's decided preference for tunic styles, of course! I like the extra detail of the one sheer sleeve, too, which struck me as a very Guillaume thing. But whoever designed it, it looks good!

(Now the wait is on to see Gabi and Guillaume's costumes, or at least the SD one as something more than a photo or two from an awkward angle. Hurry up, NHK!)

 

[RoseRed]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6yyUvl-wE0 maybe ? Not exactly joyful, but it's full of energy and it's empowering methinks.

I still like the idea of something very happy, but that would definitely be super interesting to see from them.

 

[alain06fr]

Emdee was talking about South Koreans, not North Koreans

And I am NOT talking about South Koreans but North Koreans.

There was no delegation of 2000 North Koreans at the Olympics - they were there and they were very noticeable, but their number was much smaller than that.

They were thousands and barely noticeable until V/M performed their FD. Whether you like it or not is a different story.

That is your own fantasy which you have made up to explain why V/M got the reaction they got because in your mind no one apart from an extremely select number of V/M "ubers" could possibly be moved by them and/or like them that much.

All these North Koreans coming with these big signs in a language they don't speak and cheering V/M and no one else were for sure not V/M "ubers". They were not even figure skating fans! True figure skating fans support almost all competitors and they don't care about nationalities. The behavior of these North Koreans was for sure something else. Fortunately, we never saw things like that in championships competitions. G&G got standing ovations for their free dances in all major competitions since Europeans 2015 (I listed them in the previous page) but it was not a coincidence if there was no big public reaction to their OG free dance. It was the same for all competitors except one couple. That's a matter of fact.

The situation at OG was completely different with a rink lost in the middle of nowhere, very far away from Seoul even though a special train was targeted to bring the public from the capiral. The price of the seats was unbelievable, even for South Koreans! In most of the competitions, the public was composed by 50% of journalist, the rest being other athletes supporting their friends and getting bored at staying in their Olympic "village" (there was no real "village" as the athletes (even from the same country) were spread in different buildings which could be quite far away from each others).

Sorry to everyone else here. I come to this thread every day to read news and discussions about P/C and I am waiting to see their programs with great impatience, as I absolutely love them and am also very excited about the direction which they may choose now. I usually don't post, though (actually I don't post all that often at all), but here my patience came to an end for a moment.

A lot of G&G fans suffered a lot (especially in the past 2 years) by posts targeted to prevent them from talking about what happened here and there simply by the pressure of a group of people never posting anything in this thread and driven mostly by nationalist considerations. At some point, we are adults and need to address things as they are even some of them are really nasty, ugly, shameful and completely disconnected with sport spirit and sport values.

 

[cocotaffy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6yyUvl-wE0 maybe ? Not exactly joyful, but it's full of energy and it's empowering methinks.

Good find, I would love for something with that type of energy. I share your concern about Rachael Yamagata choice. I didn't know her but from what I listen it's rather slow and meditative when I would love them to explore the same type of fast pace program like their Woodkid and their 2016 Waltz. They are so fast on the ice that that type of dramatic music requiring them to zoom across the rink fits them perfectly.
Please just nothing in the style of their James Gruntz EX

 

[twinklestar]

Having looked at both, I immediately see your point. What style is the Kitri variation?

However, I don't agree that P/C are doing a lyrical style (at which point I could point out programmes where I do think a couple are doing a lyrical style and also the negatives that I think can be applied to what they are doing which don't apply to P/C, but that will set a lot of people off). I think what P/C do can be more developed (as in greengan's post) but that the basis should remain the same; and its basis is in freedom of movement.

Kitri's variation (the one at the beginning with the castagnettes) is a very fast danse de caractère, I think.

P/C have their own way of moving, if that is their "style"...

 

[twinklestar]

Good find, I would love for something with that type of energy. I share your concern about Rachael Yamagata choice. I didn't know her but from what I listen it's rather slow and meditative when I would love them to explore the same type of fast pace program like their Woodkid and their 2016 Waltz. They are so fast on the ice that that type of dramatic music requiring them to zoom across the rink fits them perfectly.
Please just nothing in the style of their James Gruntz EX

I agree(yes, their exhibitions...) and I would have loved to see them skate Zagorski/Guerreiro's sexy blues.

 

[cocotaffy]

I agree(yes, their exhibitions...) and I would have loved to see them skate Zagorski/Guerreiro's sexy blues.

Don't know about Blues though but even though I love Blues as music, on the ice it's not always my cup of tea but then again I thought that too about Tango and I can appreciate couple of tangos this year. Anyway, usually without fail I fall head over heels for their programs I have yet to dislike anything they have done. I'm just hopeless when it comes to them and fully ready to contradict anything I've said previously

 

[maya1985]

I find because they internalize their skates the bulk of people see them as a thing of beauty but are not touched. Witness the very lukewarm reception midnight sonata had at the olympics. I watched it again just yesterday.

People are touched by them. Milan standing ovation
Since 2014, it's 4 seasons and magic programs and people touched by their universe (I also count 2016-2017 and 2017-2018, even if you seemed to be much less under their charm during these two seasons...I know there was a come back)
Regarding the Olympics, it's really not a good memory for many fans of P/C ...

 

[princeton123]

All these North Koreans coming with these big signs in a language they don't speak and cheering V/M and no one else were for sure not V/M "ubers". They were not even figure skating fans! True figure skating fans support almost all competitors and they don't care about nationalities. The behavior of these North Koreans was for sure something else. Fortunately, we never saw things like that in championships competitions. G&G got standing ovations for their free dances in all major competitions since Europeans 2015 (I listed them in the previous page) but it was not a coincidence if there was no big public reaction to their OG free dance. It was the same for all competitors except one couple. That's a matter of fact.

Are you saying V/M paid for 3000+ North Koreans to cheer for them and no one else to make it look like they were more popular? I'm confused by what you're implying.

 

[Icetigger]

The tactic of placing fake fans at a performance in order to give a false impression of how it has been received is as old as Nero.

The practice of giving out fake signs in order to give an impression of incredible popularity is an ongoing modern practice, most obviously witnessed when you watch any reality TV show with an audition process, where you can pretty much guarantee that every sign you see held by someone in the crowd have been made and handed out by the production company. Similar tactics with regard to the manufacturing of reality are employed throughout the production of such shows. I also point out that Tessa and Scott were the subject of a "reality" show.

This is without commentary on the factual accuracy of what happened at the Os.

But one thing I did notice was that the fans or "fans" were screaming even when V/M took to the ice for MR, which for me is an indicator of something quite odd.

To dismiss what Alain is saying as a conspiracy theory beyond the realms of possibility is just not correct. Maybe the number was smaller; maybe it was the combination of that number plus the number of Canadians who had reason to the Os because of the likely success of Canada in the team event (I am sure they were proportionally higher than any other) which produced that reaction, along with the hyping of V/M within the Canadian echo chamber of figure skating reporting.

Regardless of what the actual factual truth is, this could be a tactic employed by Skate Canada or any other skating federation at any other event.

Bearing in mind that their own judge was the Head of Skate Canada, who gave out marks not in line with the other judges for P/C, and who also placed W/P 3 to 5 places higher than any other judges at the Os, in order to try and lever them on to the podium, I don't think a tactic like this can be thought beyond them.

 

[fscric]

And I am NOT talking about South Koreans but North Koreans.



They were thousands and barely noticeable until V/M performed their FD. Whether you like it or not is a different story.


All these North Koreans coming with these big signs in a language they don't speak and cheering V/M and no one else were for sure not V/M "ubers". They were not even figure skating fans! True figure skating fans support almost all competitors and they don't care about nationalities. The behavior of these North Koreans was for sure something else. Fortunately, we never saw things like that in championships competitions. G&G got standing ovations for their free dances in all major competitions since Europeans 2015 (I listed them in the previous page) but it was not a coincidence if there was no big public reaction to their OG free dance. It was the same for all competitors except one couple. That's a matter of fact.

The situation at OG was completely different with a rink lost in the middle of nowhere, very far away from Seoul even though a special train was targeted to bring the public from the capiral. The price of the seats was unbelievable, even for South Koreans! In most of the competitions, the public was composed by 50% of journalist, the rest being other athletes supporting their friends and getting bored at staying in their Olympic "village" (there was no real "village" as the athletes (even from the same country) were spread in different buildings which could be quite far away from each others).


A lot of G&G fans suffered a lot (especially in the past 2 years) by posts targeted to prevent them from talking about what happened here and there simply by the pressure of a group of people never posting anything in this thread and driven mostly by nationalist considerations. At some point, we are adults and need to address things as they are even some of them are really nasty, ugly, shameful and completely disconnected with sport spirit and sport values.

The bold sentence is quite comical coming from you.

Can you create another thread to air your conspiracy theories against the dirty Canadians so you and your fellow Canadian haters can carry on and leave this thread for those who just want to discuss and get information about GG's programmes?

 

[maya1985]

It's funny... there are people who just come in this thread to "defend" V/M and skate canada ... They do not care about P/C

 

[lauravvv]

alain06fr - Some of what you are saying may be right (except, at least on TV, I did not see such huge numbers of North Koreans holding support signs of V/M), but the only fact I know for sure is that you would not be saying any of this if it was the oher way around (that is, if P/C would have gotten the reaction that V/M did).

Secondly, I personally am not Canadian - just to be clear. I am Latvian, so there can't be any national bias from me in ice dancing. Sadly, there are no notable ice dance teams from Latvia. I just happened to be a V/M fan for much longer than I have been a fan of P/C, so they (V/M) were sentimental favorites to me more than anything else. But now that is in the past. Or at least it should be. I would like to be allowed to be a fully devoted Gabriella and Guillaume fan now when their rivals a fan of whom I also was have obviously retired from competitive skating. But, unfortunately, posts like yours don't allow me that "luxury".

On the other hand, as a P/C fan I am really appreciative of and thankful for your other, informative "insider" posts about Gabriella and Guillaume and their programs. So, unlike some others, I don't really want you to go away from this thread and I am not going to put you on 'Ignore' either.

 

[GreenGan]

During the 2018 Olympics, there were a lot of events where a group of numerous North Korean were singing, dancing together, in sync thanks to a coach. This was a propaganda measure by NK regim. But I saw it in acrobatic snowboard, in speed skate and other sport, including figure skating.
Virtue/Moir are the dance team that was/is the most famous in South Korea. It's not preposterous to think the directive by the "coach" was only on Virtue/Moir because it was the only couple he knew about.

I'm fed up seeing all the conspiracies theories here, especially on Olympics. Let's just agree to disagree with the V/M fan. Most of us PC fan think that PC would've won if it wasn't for Gabriella costume's malfunction. VM's fan don't think so, but it's sport, and we won't be able to know for real. In the end, V/M upped their FD at the right time for the Olympics and the gap was enough. Can we move on now, just like Gaby and Guillaume did, it seems ?

It's only bringing rant and not constructive discussion on P/C. They are young, have an amazing career already and guess what ? It's not over. Does anyone have found guitar song by Yamagata that are skatable ?

 

[Icetigger]

During the 2018 Olympics, there were a lot of events where a group of numerous North Korean were singing, dancing together, in sync thanks to a coach. This was a propaganda measure by NK regim. But I saw it in acrobatic snowboard, in speed skate and other sport, including figure skating.

Yes, let's all just agree that there was a strong element of bogusness to the crowd reaction at the Os, and that the original point that P/C artistry is somehow the less because of the reaction to them at the Os in comparison to V/M is not valid because of that.

 

[Isabelle.G]

G&G’s free dance at Europeans and Worlds (with arenas full or almost full!) have been crazy and very emotional moments I will never forget.

I remember this unbelievable moment in Bratislava (Europeans 2016) and this British guy seated next to me and crying at the end of their FD. “That was sublime” he said adding he came to Bratislava for this free dance as he knew it would be a unique moment.

I remember these dozen of US friendly guys seating around me in Boston. When G&G got a standing ovation at the end of their program, these guys got really confused, thinking for a few seconds G&G was a US couple! ?

Helsinki was also a fantastic moment. The arena was full for the free dance. We knew that getting a standing ovation with “Stillness Oddudua” would be really challenging even though we saw the positive reation of the audience at Europeans. The arena was conpletely silent during most of their FD (like In Stockholm and Bratislava) and at the end, the audience stood up. That was soooo amazing and impressive.

Reading your post, esp. the part about Bratislava reminds me of the reaction (throughout the whole performance) of the two Spanish ladies commentating for the TDP. It speaks for its own.

And yes, being in the arena while they're on the ice is indeed something special. As I've already written in my previous posts, one can feel/experience so many emotions he/she didn't even know he had.

 

[Andora]

It's funny... there are people who just come in this thread to "defend" V/M and skate canada ... They do not care about P/C

That is decidedly untrue. Many VM fans have come in here because they also love P/C, and have stated as much. I am like Emdee in that I was instantly a fan from the Autumn Classic in Barrie, 2015, seeing them live. I want to say they competed earlier that year and were already on my radar, to boot. To Build A Home remains one of my absolute favourite programs of all time.

But coming in here to see P/C news and running into these super defensive and nefarious posts is just frustrating and honestly petty. Davis & White fans who also loved V/M must have felt the same post-sochi. It's not right either way.

Why is it impossible to consider that V/M had a crowd-pleasing FD that they absolutely nailed at the Olympics, garnering the most applause? They learned their lesson from their drippy FD in Sochi. That doesn't mean P/C didn't also have a brilliant FD - they just weren't the best team at that competition. Tragic timing for them, but they didn't lose to some second-rate team at least?

I'd love for @alain06fr to provide some sort of backup/proof of his newest conspiracy theory regarding these thousands of NK fans who single-handedly turned the tide for V/M. I preferred blaming Gadbois.

 

[VGThuy]

I don't think you guys understand V/M's fan history in Korea. They are huge there. Huge in social media by Korean fans. Yuna Kim stated about ten years ago that she loved V/M. Her Korean fans then started following them. V/M had about a decade worth of performances to gain Korean fans, including but not limited to two 4CC wins there. V/M's performances at the Olympics were huge on social media as well, outside of Korea, and made a huge impact there and in U.S. media because people couldn't stop talking about them because of the actual skating.

This doesn't mean P/C hasn't had a similar effect on skating fans for the past 4-5 seasons. They have a huge and dedicated fan base as well. But we all know Olympic audiences are much more casual than die hard fans. Even Evgeny Platov talked about it when describing Nagano and things that usually make skating fans go wild may not reach casual, never-seen-figure skating before audiences in the same way. That's probably why the Shibs used Coldplay again because they knew most of the Olympic audiences in the arena and on TV would have never seen their "Fix You" before and it'd be like making a first impression. It just so happened that at this competition V/M had the biggest impression. It's not like it's a surprise considering that V/M are as close to household names as one can get in ice dance. It's just a fact you have to deal with even if you don't particularly like V/M. They have a big fan base (in ice dance terms).

 

[maya1985]

That is decidedly untrue. Many VM fans have come in here because they also love P/C, and have stated as much. I am like Emdee in that I was instantly a fan from the Autumn Classic in Barrie, 2015, seeing them live. I want to say they competed earlier that year and were already on my radar, to boot. To Build A Home remains one of my absolute favourite programs of all time.

Why do you feel concerned by my post? I never said you did not like them (I did not mention anyone)

 

[Andora]

Why do you feel concerned by my post? I never said you did not like them (I did not mention anyone)

 

[alain06fr]

It's funny... there are people who just come in this thread to "defend" V/M and skate canada ... They do not care about P/C

Yep, these people just behave the way I described it. How funny!