Victoria Sinitsina: In America I learned to stand up for myself. Marina, Diet, Tough-girl.

[hanca]

These two paragraphs are contradictory to me (and I agree with the second one).

For me, they are indeed many reasons why people do not exactly "choose" their food :
- economic constraints
- other practical constraints (are they good healthy shops nearby ?)
- habits, especially developed during childhood where when are very sensitive to sugar
- and worst than habits, addictions to sugar (https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2017/08/23/bjsports-2017-097971)

It would not surprise me that people can be as hooked to bad food (that is more artificially sugared) as other people can be addicted to coffee and cigarettes. The way to counter that addiction is not by giving people choices, because we are free adults and stuff, but by regulation. That's what working for the cigarettes in the US right now.

This not a US problem btw, this is a industrial world problem.

If you look at this map however, you find that the obesity situation is worse in the US than in other Western countries: https://www.worldobesity.org/data/map/overview-adults). The worst EU country (obesity wise) for example, Romania, has a 29/34 F/M obesity percentage, and that's significantly less than the US 37/41 score. Sweden's score, one of the EU winners in the 2010s, is at 16/17 percent. Less than half the US score.

They are only a handful explanations for this :
- 1) Americans do not exercise enough
- 2) Social or economic constraints make it harder for Americans to eat healthy (that's the explanation you seem to reject ?)
- 3) Americans want to be obese because they find it bootylicious
- 4) Americans are freely making stupid decisions about their health
- 5) The map is wrong : it was funded by the EU and as always Europeans want to make Americans look bad.
- 6) Vikings raids keep the Swedes very active and healthy and annoyingly always first at everything.

I go with 2) btw.

Common sense would say that No 2 is correct, but from some reason I love option 3.

 

[ostile17]

Maybe someone can find it from the archives, but I think there was an article about Krylova a couple years ago about their focus on weight too. I forgot which skater was involved. After seeing this article and several others, it seems to be acceptable for some coaches from Russia to do this as a part of "training". It definitely doesn't seem like a healthy way of going about it. Having said that, it is entirely possible that everyone does it, but their skaters don't talk about it. The honesty in Russian interviews in just amazing.

It is true that back in the days Linichuk and the Federation put Kylova on a strict diet or else, they told her, she would not be allowed to skate.

The same they did with poor Natalia Mishkutenok who was replaced by a thinner Kazakova.

Another frightening thought: in the later Morozov/Takahashi era Moro used to have Dai training wrapped in plastic (to these days I'm convinced that's what damaged his health and ultimately was the cause of Dai's very bad conditions during his last 2 seasons).

I think Russians are CRAZY-strict when it comes to weight for their athletes.

On the other hand I cannot remember one single Russian skater who moved to the US that didn't complain of the same problems with US food.

 

[ostile17]

Tonight, we had skinless chicken breast seasoned with fresh basil and fresh cucumbers and tomatoes.

The basil, cucumbers and tomatoes were from my own garden.

So explain to me exactly what part of that meal was bad quality ingredients that I am too dumb to understand are horrible for me and have caused me to have bad taste and allegedly be obese? The hand trimmed chicken breast (one piece sliced into three thinner pieces, by the way)? Or did someone sneak into my garden and add corn syrup to my cucumbers?

Here's the thing...you don't know what every single person in this country is eating. A lot of us are eating meals like I did tonight and have been cooking and serving all summer. And the assumptions get old. I don't like American exceptionalism but the "we totally suck and are awful people with horrible habits in all things" routine is just as stupid and uncalled for.

Was it your chicken? Otherwise the hormones in the chickens are not healthy!

When I move from Italy to NYC for a few years all my Italian friends and I noticed our breasts would enlarge!!! It was the hormones in the chickens that we were not used to have here (at least in the 80's). Hormones also make you swallen and havier.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Warned about it? If someone told me that if I go to a different country and the same fruit and vegetables will look same or even much better but will not taste same, I would think they are mad

Tomatoes grown in Washington taste different than tomatoes grown in California taste different than tomatoes grown in NJ, so your point doesn't hold. Just a simple example.

If someone tells you that the meat used in McDonalds in the US is different than the meat used in McDonalds in Canada, and you don't believe it, that's on you.

If you are told that, especially for prepared foods, and especially by your coach or fellow athletes, that you need to look at the ingredients and not go by the visuals only or the name of the product (ex: "Eggplant spread"), and you think they are "mad," then you'll find out for yourself, and you deserve to.

 

[Debbie S]

You can buy organic/free range chicken. Are chickens even fed hormones? They are fed antibiotics (and organic and free range is usually antibiotic-free) but I thought it was cows that are fed hormones. But you can also buy organic beef and milk.

 

[kwanfan1818]

You can buy organic/free range chicken. Are chickens even fed hormones? They are fed antibiotics (and organic and free range is usually antibiotic-free) but I thought it was cows that are fed hormones. But you can also buy organic beef and milk.

You need to know that you need to ask for it, ie. that the walk-into-the-supermarket-and-grab-it default meat isn't the equivalent of what you're used to, and it needs to be available.

 

[AJ Skatefan]

When I went to Australia and New Zealand I had some of the best meat I’d ever had. And other kinds of great food. Came back to the US and had to diet to get the weight off. I can relate to what misskarne said.

 

[kwanfan1818]

When I went to Australia and New Zealand I had some of the best meat I’d ever had. And other kinds of great food. Came back to the US and had to diet to get the weight off. I can relate to what misskarne said.

And milk -- I drank it like wine.

 

[alchemy void]

Don't we have this exact same discussion every year?

 

[AJ Skatefan]

And wine—— I drank it like wine!

 

[kittyjake5]

What is this wrapped in plastic diet. I have never heard of it. Is it supposed to make you sweat calories?

 

[kwanfan1818]

What is this wrapped in plastic diet. I have never heard of it. Is it supposed to make you sweat calories?

Yes. It similar to the rubber suits that I remember seeing advertised growing up.

 

[shine]

Yes. It similar to the rubber suits that I remember seeing advertised growing up.

Except how does it make scientific sense? Other than losing water weight and electrolytes, I’m not sure how that’s going to achieve anything.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Except how does it make scientific sense? Other than losing water weight and electrolytes, I’m not sure how that’s going to achieve anything.

It's all short-term, but if you're weighed multiple times a day, it could be the difference.

 

[wickedwitch]

Don't we have this exact same discussion every year?

I think Marina doing daily weigh-ins is new.

 

[kwanfan1818]

wrong thread

 

[twizzletoes76]

I think Marina doing daily weigh-ins is new.

I think Marina doing regular weigh-ins for skinny adolescent girls is batshit crazy.

 

[Tinami Amori]

Except how does it make scientific sense? Other than losing water weight and electrolytes, I’m not sure how that’s going to achieve anything.

It's a treatment that is offered in beauty spas, and seems it is not illegal..
look starting 4:00 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w39ABSDxwlg
and this..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxj8SIRbM6M

 

[Bigbird]

It's a treatment that is offered in beauty spas, and seems it is not illegal..
look starting 4:00 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w39ABSDxwlg
and this..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxj8SIRbM6M

Desperate is as desperate does. Mercy.

 

[MrMystery]

I think the weight and weigh-in topic is a very tricky one. Marina is widely known for her... intense... methods. As are many Russian coaches. This isn't a slam at them, but a simple fact. But, these methods and others are enforced by coaches globally. It certainly isn't a "Russian" thing only.

That said... there are some basic facts that can't be ignored. As an elite athlete, a certain diet is needed in order to perform at the highest levels. And, like it or not, so are specific weight parameters. Especially when it comes to dance and pairs where the girls are being lifted.

Also, boys/men experience the same sort of "enforcement" as the girls/women do when it comes to their weight. Sometimes, with pairs and dance, it's that they don't have enough muscle, etc. And with the single skaters, they too face weight restrictions.

 

[supergirl573]

I suppose weight is more relevant in Ice Dance as there is a lifting component to it that affects the male partner. I'm sure male partners wouldn't want the responsibility of having to be the bad guy of saying something if they were noticing issues lifting.

Not entirely true. Tanith was easier to lift for Ben once they moved coaches and she gained muscle. Scott said that Tessa being muscular helps a lot in the lifts they perform. That’s why they are able to difficult lifts with extension where the woman is supporting herself through lifts which is the way they are supposed to be, unlike other couples who struggle with lift difficulty and extension.

Maybe someone can find it from the archives, but I think there was an article about Krylova a couple years ago about their focus on weight too. I forgot which skater was involved.

Tessa Virtue. Krylova basically had a hit piece on Virtue and Moir to prop Weaver and Poje and talked about how VM hadn’t won GPF, Tessa was to heavy to lift, and implying that WP would surpass them. I think that was after GPF 2015/before 2016 Nationals. Of course, WP inexplicably choked at Worlds and 4CCs and left Krylova st the end of that season. Also, people were defending her trashing a skater that she didn’t coach, who wasn’t currently competing, who had to gain muscle to prevent injury, and who was vastly superior to any skater she ever coached. I think we know who got the last laugh.

 

[believed]

Tessa Virtue. Krylova basically had a hit piece on Virtue and Moir to prop Weaver and Poje and talked about how VM hadn’t won GPF, Tessa was to heavy to lift, and implying that WP would surpass them. I think that was after GPF 2015/before 2016 Nationals. Of course, WP inexplicably choked at Worlds and 4CCs and left Krylova st the end of that season. Also, people were defending her trashing a skater that she didn’t coach, who wasn’t currently competing, who had to gain muscle to prevent injury, and who was vastly superior to any skater she ever coached. I think we know who got the last laugh.

Yeah, didn’t she say that after 2012 Worlds, V/M got lazy, specifically Tessa and it was shown in her supposed weight gain? It was a gross article with a gross attitude.

 

[Tinami Amori]

About the weight.
Different sports (and activities) require different body types. It's a fact.
In figure skating an athlete must keep to certain weight and form to be competitive, and in pairs/dance be able to lift the partner or be lifted.

If one's body type and predisposition to weight gain prevents one from achieving the desired results, alone or with a partner, one has options:
a) try another sport, and/or quit.

b) accept the fact that one is not likely to go past certain level and stay in sport.

c) try to bring your form/weight/muscle mass to the required condition.
- if the only methods available to reach the "required condition" will cause damage to health, realize it and see sections a) and b).

Too bad, so sad, but perhaps one should think why skaters like Meryl Davis is staying in same form, during and after her competitive career while winning top medals. She has the right forms and matabolism which did NOT require to starve or take crazy powders.

Meryl then: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-oaD1CYUHO...gure+Skating+Winter+Olympics+NKnrj9ax46El.jpg
Meryl now: https://www.instagram.com/p/Blt7INtHUPR/?taken-by=meryledavis

A trainer can say "you need to be in certain form to get to certain level". It is up to the person to evaluate what it will take.

Nobody forces "sports" on people, and "high sport" is not a life's primary need to survive. If you don't have the body, either quit, or try to change something, if what requires changes cause damage, then don't do it, and accept it.

 

[misskarne]

No. People who try and defend this shit with "you have to be a certain weight" are disgusting.

You have to be fit for skating, no doubt. But athletic, fit, trim does not have to equal "weigh every day and if you gain a few grams you're not allowed to skate!" That's unhealthy. Additionally? YOU NEED MUSCLE TO JUMP! Do you know how NOT to get muscle or how to lose it? STARVING YOURSELF. Muscle is more dense than fat which means that a slim but muscular person may weigh more than a slim less muscular person.

This kind of thinking is so incredibly stupid and harmful that a perfectly fit, but more muscular woman would likely be barred from skating under these coaches because she's too "heavy". Meanwhile she might have bigger better jumps because hey, muscle! But these people seem to think "thin above everything!". And so we get these horrendous interviews where skaters talk about weighing every day and being afraid of the scale as if it's normal. Or Arutunian calling Adam Rippon an elephant because Rippon had a bit of muscle.

This type of thinking is toxic and must be destroyed and removed from our sport.

 

[hanca]

Easy for you to say it if you are not pair male trying to lift the female, or if you are not the skater trying to do the quads. No one doubts that muscles are needed, but at the same time any extra weight can be harmful to your joints long term, if you try to do the harder jumps. If the skaters themselves (Cohen, Weir etc) are saying that they jump better when they lose weight, I have no reason to doubt them.

 

[dramagrrl]

If the skaters themselves (Cohen, Weir etc) are saying that they jump better when they lose weight, I have no reason to doubt them.

I do. They are the products of an extremely weight and looks-conscious sport. They have been in an isolated community since they were children in which one is told that they need to be a certain weight and look to succeed and that they need to look immaculate everywhere they are seen because they are "judged" every moment, even when they are not on competitive ice. Of course most of these athletes grow up buying into and believing that weight loss will help them win even when it is not always (or even often) true.

 

[hanca]

I do. They are the products of an extremely weight and looks-conscious sport. They have been in an isolated community since they were children in which one is told that they need to be a certain weight and look to succeed and that they need to look immaculate everywhere they are seen because they are "judged" every moment, even when they are not on competitive ice. Of course most of these athletes grow up buying into and believing that weight loss will help them win even when it is not always (or even often) true.

I see. So you know better than the skaters themselves. You think they are confused and believing things that are not true. Have you ever considered that they know their bodies better than you do? They trained day after day, they must know better what worked for them. But you are the expert...

 

[triple_toe]

It's definitely easier to jump under pressure when you aren't worried about everyone whispering about how "fat" you are...

 

[hanca]

True. It is also easier to jump when you are lighter. I know that from my own experience. As an adult skater, I was doing only single jumps and no axel, but every time we went on holidays, I put on weight and struggled with my jumps until I lost the extra weight. It felt like if I was jumping with a heavy bag on my back and the jumps were suddenly very tiny, nearly not leaving the ice. After losing the weight, the jumps returned to normal. And that’s only single jumps, which are relatively easy. Imagine how affected the skaters must be if they are doing triples or quads. Putting on any amount of weight makes difference. So many skaters said that in their interviews, I am not sure how can anyone claim that they are all wrong.

 

[PRlady]

I think the Canadians have it right. So many of their skaters have muscle tone to die for, from Duhamel and Rochette to Osmond and, in her later years, Virtue. They look healthy and great even if they weighed a bit more than the Russian/American ideal.