American Women Used to Dominate in Figure Skating. What Happened?

[Vash01]

Adding to my previous post-

Russia dominated in pairs for decades, but eventually the rest of the world caught up with them. American ladies are going through something similar. In ice dance the USA and Russia seem to have switched positions.

Things change. I think both groups will make a turn around at some point.

 

[Seerek]

Also the availability of money within the X Game sponsored sports, you would find the same pattern, along with lucrative endorsement contracts.

You're right. XGames Sports prize money is decent (~$50K for the winner in some events), but the bigger reward are the many sponsorship opportunities available for the top skiers and snowboarders (essentially, the participants become walking billboards when competing).

 

[StasiyaGalustyanLove]

My wife and I watched all of the ladies skate on Tuesday. We had a tuna noodle surprise and some sparkling juices while we watched. And one thing we both noticed is all three of the US ladies made bad errors! I think they are too busy flapping their mouths in interviews and posting on Twitter and Instagrammer when they could be practicing six triple jumps in a row like the ladies from Russia.

Maybe our society has become too lazy and we have lost our ability to be competitive because everyone wants to get a gold medal just for showing up, well let me tell you that is not how the Olympics work!

I miss the days of Angela Nikodinov. I loved loved loved her! And Jill Trenary, what a head of hair!

 

[sk9tingfan]

And one thing we both noticed is all three of the US ladies made bad errors! I think they are too busy flapping their mouths in interviews and posting on Twitter and Instagrammer when they could be practicing six triple jumps in a row like the ladies from Russia.

The US skaters do not have control over the media demands. That is under the control of USFSA who needs to satisfy its agreements with NBC and other sponsors. I also think that it creates so much hype that inordinately pressures our skaters and has adverse effects on performance.

 

[snippy]

I think that a big part of it is little girls don’t just want to go up to be an Olympic figure skater anymore. They have a lot more doors open to them

 

[Barbara Manatee]

Parents now steer their athletically gifted children into sports that have the potential for college scholarship money. Only the dedicated 1% who can afford it stay in skating post middle school.

Even the 1% aren't too keen - Tanith has already said several times that baby White is going to play hockey, not figure skate.

 

[Aceon6]

You're right. XGames Sports prize money is decent (~$50K for the winner in some events), but the bigger reward are the many sponsorship opportunities available for the top skiers and snowboarders (essentially, the participants become walking billboards when competing).

X Games also has much more athlete control. It's more like the PGA than the ISU in that X Games competitors who are good enough can compete wherever they want to so the money is a bit more stable at the top levels.

 

[BlueRidge]

I don't think there is a lack of girls figure skating. We don't see a smaller number at competitions do we? People keep saying this but the problem isn't that there aren't figure skaters it is that of the girls in US figure skating, fewer are going on to become World Champions or Olympic medalists because they don't seem to have the ability to land all the necessary jumps in big comps.

 

[sk9tingfan]

I think that a big part of it is little girls don’t just want to go up to be an Olympic figure skater anymore. They have a lot more doors open to them

ITA. When one looks at the risk reward ratio, figure skating in the US just doesn't pay off. Gymnastics has a slightly higher payback.

 

[sk9tingfan]

I don't think there is a lack of girls figure skating. We don't see a smaller number at competitions do we? People keep saying this but the problem isn't that there aren't figure skaters it is that of the girls in US figure skating, fewer are going on to become World Champions or Olympic medalists because they don't seem to have the ability to land all the necessary jumps in big comps.

However, one has not been able to specify the underlying cause of this. Is it the coaching, the training, the physical conditioning or the lack of systematic search for those girls best suited to the sport. Who pursues skating in the US is a random as opposed to a systematic process.

 

[soogar]

ITA. When one looks at the risk reward ratio, figure skating in the US just doesn't pay off. Gymnastics has a slightly higher payback.

Gymnastics is cheaper and a good gymnast who doesn't make it to the Olympics has a chance to compete and receive scholarships for college. Same with all the girls going into soccer and tennis as well.

 

[BlueRidge]

However, one has not been able to specify the underlying cause of this. Is it the coaching, the training, the physical conditioning or the lack of systematic search for those girls best suited to the sport. Who pursues skating in the US is a random as opposed to a systematic process.

Well I think that's part of the issue. As I said, in my previous post, its self-selecting. Granted the top coaches probably do try to select promising skaters, but still its from a self-selected pool. One question is, was it ever any different? The US previous had more successful ladies skaters, maybe that was because the self-selection worked better when the sport was less technically demanding?

In any case I don't see any way for it to change. I'm inclined to think it is what it is given figure skatings lack of stature in US sports.

I don't think that lack of stature can be changed without radically changing figure skating. Figure skating is feminine and the feminine is devalued in the US. Girls see it as something less and not as "athletic," athletic is something tough, masculine, valued.

 

[clairecloutier]

Even the 1% aren't too keen - Tanith has already said several times that baby White is going to play hockey, not figure skate.

Where did Tanith say that?

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Maybe there are some American guys out there who might consider marrying some of Team Eteri's squad, so that Team USA can build their stock. Those girls are machines.

 

[mag]

Even the 1% aren't too keen - Tanith has already said several times that baby White is going to play hockey, not figure skate.

I hope baby White is allowed to choose what they want to do. It drives me nuts when parents make statement like that, even if they are joking.

 

[rfisher]

Where did Tanith say that?

She's said it a couple of times on the NBCSN pre-skating program.

 

[bardtoob]

The US has not been producing fully developed 14-16 year old ladies (.)

Tara was in 1998. Sarah was in 2002 ... Kwan was in 1995-96.

 

[Barbara Manatee]

Where did Tanith say that?

I hope baby White is allowed to choose what they want to do. It drives me nuts when parents make statement like that, even if they are joking.

Besides the comments on NBC, she also said it during a radio interview the other day. And yes, she says they'll teach him to skate and hope he picks hockey.

 

[snippy]

ITA. When one looks at the risk reward ratio, figure skating in the US just doesn't pay off. Gymnastics has a slightly higher payback.

Especially as you can get an education on the gymnastic scholarship

 

[LeafOnTheWind]

Gymnastics might take a hit for a while and we probably won't see the full fallout until later. Just saying......

 

[sk9tingfan]

Gymnastics might take a hit for a while and we probably won't see the full fallout until later. Just saying......

ITA. An interesting aside; one of my doctor's support staff has a daughter who was a gymnast for ten years, never was able to achieve elite status due to persistent injuries. She has made the transition to ice hockey.

 

[manhn]

Charlie and Scott both began as hockey players, so kids don't have to start out figure skating. Some connection to the ice--whether as speed skater, hockey, figure skating--should be something all countries should encourage. It's then the fed's job to pick out whether any of these kids can turn out to be elite in a specific ice sport.

 

[missing]

I think some of it comes from ethnic self-selection, if you will.

I just went through the 2018 US Nationals Figure Skating Program. A quick survey indicated to me that 10 out of the 22 senior women had Asian descent last names. In junior women the number was 8 out of 12. In novice, it was 6 out of 12. None of these numbers included Asian subcontinent or Middle Eastern last names, which would add to the total (In men, the numbers seem to be 5/21,4/13,3/12).

Then I googled the US women's Olympic hockey team and none of the names jumped out at me as Asian descent. The US women's gymnastics team also doesn't seem to have a disproportionate number of Asian descent last names.

This is neither a good thing nor a bad thing. But while it's true Asian Americans have the fastest growth rate of any major racial or ethnic group, in 2010 they constituted less than 6% of the population.

It's impossible not to notice the lack of African American and Latino American skaters in the top ranks. But it would seem that Euro Americans are also underrepresented in the sport, proportionate to their share of population.

 

[skatingguy]

A tribute to the accomplishments of skaters like Kristi Yamaguchi and Michelle Kwan, both on and off the ice.

 

[Spun Silver]

I think some of it comes from ethnic self-selection, if you will.

I just went through the 2018 US Nationals Figure Skating Program. A quick survey indicated to me that 10 out of the 22 senior women had Asian descent last names. In junior women the number was 8 out of 12. In novice, it was 6 out of 12. None of these numbers included Asian subcontinent or Middle Eastern last names, which would add to the total (In men, the numbers seem to be 5/21,4/13,3/12).

Then I googled the US women's Olympic hockey team and none of the names jumped out at me as Asian descent. The US women's gymnastics team also doesn't seem to have a disproportionate number of Asian descent last names.

This is neither a good thing nor a bad thing. But while it's true Asian Americans have the fastest growth rate of any major racial or ethnic group, in 2010 they constituted less than 6% of the population.

It's impossible not to notice the lack of African American and Latino American skaters in the top ranks. But it would seem that Euro Americans are also underrepresented in the sport, proportionate to their share of population.

I'm not sure I understand the point of your post. Since Asian Americans like Kristi and Michelle and Maia Shibutani and Mirai have been so successful, surely it's a good thing if there are lots of Asian American in figure skating now? The more the better for our medal hopes!

 

[overedge]

Gymnastics might take a hit for a while and we probably won't see the full fallout until later. Just saying......

I have to admit I've been wondering when #metoo is going to hit skating. Hopefully there isn't a Larry Nassar out there, but skating definitely has some of the same "don't say anything if you're mistreated because it will hurt your career" culture.

But back to the story - no country has a right to win medals or championships every single year, and even if the US ladies aren't on the podium every time, the US still has a lot stronger record than many other countries of consistently producing top-level competitors. It's this "if you don't win OMG the whole country is a LOSER and SOMETHING IS WRONG" mentality that is more of a problem IMO.

 

[sk9tingfan]

I have to admit I've been wondering when #metoo is going to hit skating. Hopefully there isn't a Larry Nassar out there, but skating definitely has some of the same "don't say anything if you're mistreated because it will hurt your career" culture.

Chances are that the #METOO movement won't gain steam in Russia, but I would point to Nikolai Morozov

 

[Judy]

The US skaters do not have control over the media demands. That is under the control of USFSA who needs to satisfy its agreements with NBC and other sponsors. I also think that it creates so much hype that inordinately pressures our skaters and has adverse effects on performance.

Times have changed and everyone from all sports and in general are into social media. I think they have to do something like Skate Canada with their indentifying young talent etc.

 

[missing]

I'm not sure I understand the point of your post. Since Asian Americans like Kristi and Michelle and Maia Shibutani and Mirai have been so successful, surely it's a good thing if there are lots of Asian American in figure skating now? The more the better for our medal hopes!

It's absolutely a very good thing.

But the smaller the initial talent pool, the less chance of a lot of high quality athletes. A different example of that would be pairs. The U.S. has very few pairs teams and thus less likelihood of high ranking pairs teams.

More options, more chances for success.

 

[casken]

Yes, it would be really nice if some of these articles noted U.S. success in ice dance instead of just lamenting ladies.

Kind of hard to get excited about every us dance #1 walking into 9.50+ PCS ever since our singles program died and the US needed to medal in *something*.

Look at the rise and fall of Chock and Bates. From 9.50+ PCS and almost winning worlds IN 2015 to... now.