Adam Rippon on Quiet Starvation in Men’s Figure Skating

[ChiquitaBanana]

Well, they (Seguin/Bilodeau) were the only senior pairs team to get a Level 4 on the triple twist in the SP at 2018 Canadians, including Duhamel/Radford. Seems like their twist is just fine.

I am saying their twist is usually higher, I am not discussing level. Shhh. And you know what? I know them, two generous, dedicated skaters. Their twist can be bigger and has been bigger and I guess they know themselves. People get on their teeth when talking about body composition, weight and shape...

 

[mag]

People get on their teeth when talking about body composition, weight and shape...

I don’t think people would be upset about talking about body composition or fitness if the people talking actually knew what they were talking about. The thing is you can’t tell anything by just looking other than if a person looks bigger or smaller, and even that is tricky when watching on TV or a computer screen. Ge’s comment is also a sound bite. He is unlikely to go into a long explanation of what he did to get into better shape and even if he did, it is unlikely to be reported. Skaters are human and like compliments. Getting skinnier is one of the few things that almost always gets you a compliment (unless you are perpetually skinny, then the criticism starts.) It seems the general public likes to see people get bigger and then smaller, wash, rinse, repeat, because it makes us feel better about our own lack of ability to stay in shape.

Given what we know about eating disorders in figure skating, and given that our comments, no matter how well intended are not going to be helpful in anyway, we would all do well to simply leave the body conditioning to the professionals. This is the bit I really do not understand. Talking about skaters’ weights, making comments about their bodies does nothing positive for the skater no matter how well intentioned. Why do people continually post when then know all they are doing is potentially hurting someone? Why would someone do that? Why is the need to make a post about weight so much more important than the want to be kind or at least the want to not hurt someone?

 

[MIsty Blades/Skate Mom]

This type of behavior tends to affect people in the entertainment/modeling industry.
You will see even male actors/models starving themselves. For example, I was watching Million Dollar Listing NY, I remember ex-model/realtor, Steve Gold, saying, "I don't eat" to another realtor.

 

[lala]

Look at the top 5 after the short program! Except Shoma, who is very short all of them are really skiny. So we can write many pages in this thread but the essence is there! If you are lightweight and strong you can jump higher, faster, and you probably can land in the jumps without injuries.. This is not only esthetical question.

 

[MacMadame]

Look at the top 5 after the short program! Except Shoma, who is very short all of them are really skiny. So we can write many pages in this thread but the essence is there! If you are lightweight and strong you can jump higher, faster, and you probably can land in the jumps without injuries.. This is not only esthetical question.

I think the essence of this thread is: People are idiots.

You can't take one event out of one competition and say "the top 5 are skinny except 1" so you have to be skinny. I'm sorry but that's just ridiculous. Why top 5 and not top 6 or top 10? What defines "skinny"? How do we separate out causation from correlation?

What you've done here is called confirmation bias. You believe skaters have to be skinny so you notice when they are and when they do well and not when they aren't and don't do well. I could just as easily say: Nathan Chen is skinny, was expected to vie for a medal and now he's in 17th place. See? Being skinny is a disadvantage! And it would be as meaningful as your post.

If we want to know the factor that weight plays, we'd have to study lots of data of ALL the competitors and decide if the ones with a lower BMI or lower body fat do better overall at all the competitions all the time after you come up with a reasonable criterion for what "doing better" means as well as what skinny vs. normal weight vs. overweight means. i.e., Do you use BMI or body fat or absolute weight or something else? You'd also have to figure out what variables to control for such as the amount of training they do on average.

 

[gkelly]

We could also say that it's an advantage for jumping to be short.

That doesn't mean that skaters should go out of their way to change their own bodies to be shorter than their genetics determine.

Each skater needs to find the optimum level of fitness and technique within their own body, not try to emulate someone else with a different body type.

 

[mag]

I think the essence of this thread is: People are idiots.

I think we need a super like button.

 

[lala]

I think the essence of this thread is: People are idiots.

You can't take one event out of one competition and say "the top 5 are skinny except 1" so you have to be skinny. I'm sorry but that's just ridiculous. Why top 5 and not top 6 or top 10? What defines "skinny"? How do we separate out causation from correlation?

What you've done here is called confirmation bias. You believe skaters have to be skinny so you notice when they are and when they do well and not when they aren't and don't do well. I could just as easily say: Nathan Chen is skinny, was expected to vie for a medal and now he's in 17th place. See? Being skinny is a disadvantage! And it would be as meaningful as your post.

If we want to know the factor that weight plays, we'd have to study lots of data of ALL the competitors and decide if the ones with a lower BMI or lower body fat do better overall at all the competitions all the time after you come up with a reasonable criterion for what "doing better" means as well as what skinny vs. normal weight vs. overweight means. i.e., Do you use BMI or body fat or absolute weight or something else? You'd also have to figure out what variables to control for such as the amount of training they do on average.

You played with the words. Shoma's advantage is his height.
But do you know what? All of you write an open letter to the coaches , the skaters and say them: you are wrong you have to get weight! No matter if you can't win, if you won't have great jumps! We think you are so skinny!

This is ridiculous. Probably they know better than we altogether here what is good for them. Probably they have experiences. Probably the skaters feel when they are strong, when they are in very good sporty shape. This is phisics and probably for ex Mishin who is a engineer and professor understands it. We don't know how much harder to jump if the skaters have plus weight.
I find this controversy very unnecessary. But you know I don't say you are idiots because you have totally wrong opinions.

 

[lala]

I think we need a super like button.

I think you are idiot.

 

[mag]

I think you are idiot.

I will take that as a compliment

 

[lala]

I will take that as a compliment

Congratulations! If you have no meaningful thoughts you are rude. Does this characterize the American people?

 

[madm]

USFS has a program for sports nutrition and they regularly deliver presentations on this topic to skaters and parents at Nationals. I attended one of them put on by Dr. Dan Bernardot from Georgia State University. If you are interested, here are the presentation slides: http://www.usfigureskating.org/content/2007 RFTS Nutrition Presentation.pdf. I believe PSA is also tied into this information and requires nutrition training in its coach education curriculum. The bottom line is that any elite athlete would be well served to be working with a nutritionist to discuss ideal body weight, composition, etc. as well as the timing of food intake for optimal performance.

 

[Vagabond]

The Secret Behind Adam Rippon’s Olympic Abs

After bouts with disordered eating, Rippon, 28, now adheres to a healthier, high-protein diet, rich in fruits and vegetables, and a grueling gym workout to give him the stability and strength he needs to spin, jump and twirl in the air....

Here’s Rippon’s workout for his abdominal muscles, as described by[his trainer, Steve] Zim....

Recovery Meal: After the workout, I require Adam to eat within 30 minutes. He eats protein — chicken, fish or beef and maybe a salad. You need your carbs, but nobody needs bread, pasta or rice. He gets his carbs from fruits and vegetables, like yams.

 

[ChiquitaBanana]

I don’t think people would be upset about talking about body composition or fitness if the people talking actually knew what they were talking about. The thing is you can’t tell anything by just looking other than if a person looks bigger or smaller, and even that is tricky when watching on TV or a computer screen. Ge’s comment is also a sound bite. He is unlikely to go into a long explanation of what he did to get into better shape and even if he did, it is unlikely to be reported. Skaters are human and like compliments. Getting skinnier is one of the few things that almost always gets you a compliment (unless you are perpetually skinny, then the criticism starts.) It seems the general public likes to see people get bigger and then smaller, wash, rinse, repeat, because it makes us feel better about our own lack of ability to stay in shape.

Given what we know about eating disorders in figure skating, and given that our comments, no matter how well intended are not going to be helpful in anyway, we would all do well to simply leave the body conditioning to the professionals. This is the bit I really do not understand. Talking about skaters’ weights, making comments about their bodies does nothing positive for the skater no matter how well intentioned. Why do people continually post when then know all they are doing is potentially hurting someone? Why would someone do that? Why is the need to make a post about weight so much more important than the want to be kind or at least the want to not hurt someone?

I guess the rest of the post was addressed to the community in general. Coaches and some people confuse weight with body built, fat, BMI, shape size, and so on. I stand in the middle in this thread. Skaters must be fit and put physics on their side. Losing weight for losing weight is silly. Working your body to get the max of what it can give, that is what an Olympic athlete should thrive for. I don’t get people calling Daleman « different »... To me, she seems like a size 0 and fit as hell (she is back to last season’s physical state). Of course your body shape affects your jumps. Each one has to find on which factors they need to work, by it body composition or explosive power.
Let’s not buried our heads in the sand neither, some people in here cringed when they hear a skater worked on his body composition. It is part of the sport, to at least maintain a certain weight, whatever is the best number for the skater, not to get over or under. Their body is like a F1 car, it has to be tu ed to the best settings.

 

[ChiquitaBanana]

I think the essence of this thread is: People are idiots.

That was rude, don’t you think?

 

[Tavi]

Congratulations! If you have no meaningful thoughts you are rude. Does this characterize the American people?

So, are you an elite skater yourself? Or a scientist, perhaps, who has conducted controlled studies on the optimal power/ weight ratios for skaters?

I didn’t think so.

Yet you’re asserting your unsupported personal opinions as if they are facts - they’re not - and attacking someone who correctly told you that correlation does not equal causation. You’re entitled to your opinions, but you should perhaps remember that’s all they are, nothing more, and they’re no better than Mag’s or anyone else’s.

By the way, resorting to name calling based on someone’s presumed nationality is incredibly tacky and will not serve you well, either here or in real life.

 

[dramagrrl]

I think the problem with any weight discussion threads here are that a) they always seem to stem from articles or posts that are talking about disordered eating in skating or even full-blown eating disorders that have been acknowledged as such by the skaters themselves (and therefore cannot be said to just be "weight loss"), b) they then disintegrate into "is thinner better for skating?" arguments, which become dominated by posters who are deeply involved in the skating community and therefore have a very skewed opinion of weight and aesthetic issues within the sport, and c) posters then start using specific skaters as examples.

I don't think anyone here would disagree that to be an athlete at max capacity in any sport, there is an optimal weight for each person competing and an optimal body type that best suits the sport. That does not mean that people who are not at that optimal weight or do not possess that optimal body type cannot reach elite level and be equal to or even greater athletes than people in said sport who do possess the optimal body type naturally and are always at an optimal weight. Also, that optimal weight is different for every skater and unless you are the skater themselves, their coach, or someone who is extremely close to that skater, you a) have no idea what the skater weighs at any given time, b) what the composition of that raw weight level is in terms of muscle/fat and c) know what that skater feels is their optimal competitive weight. Looking at a skater on TV and guessing, "Wow, she looks like she's gained ten pounds!" is pure conjecture.

Also, even if a skater had the exact optimal body type that was perfect for the sport as it exists when they are competing (because that is also dependent on trends - if the trend for female singles skaters suddenly started focusing way more on rewarding those who could land a 3A instead of, say, 3-3 combos, then the optimal body type for that era would likely be different), and also was able to constantly maintain the optimal weight that was best for them, that would only give them the advantage of starting at a baseline of 100%. There would then be a myriad of other factors that could add to their advantage or take away, starting with actual skating/jumping technique, which all the "thinner is always better!" posters seem to consistently ignore.

Yes, if a skater whose optimal weight was around 120 lbs (just as a random number) suddenly gained 30 lbs, that skater would very likely be at a competitive disadvantage and a disadvantage in reaching their own maximum potential in the sport. But it would not make every skater who was in that situation uncompetitive and some skaters could even stay at close to the level they were at their optimal weight with that much weight gain if their technique and other factors were strong. There would also likely be an equal or even worse effect if the same skater suddenly lost 30 lbs.

And the fact is, whenever these threads get started, people are never talking about or using examples of skaters who have gained a great deal of weight. They use examples of skaters who have gained or lost maybe 5-10 lbs. and start arguing that that has made a huge difference in their skating success, and then get into discussions that are about aesthetics in the sport and not physical ability (e.g., saying that skaters who are "long and lean" will always score better, should get higher PCS because their positions are more "pleasing", etc.). They also then start using ridiculous examples such as saying that Gabby Daleman or Tessa Virtue represent more "curvy" physiques in skating (I don't understand how anyone who has ever seen Tessa IRL could ever have done anything but laugh heartily at the "Tessa Virtue is fat!" posts that were rampant in the run-up to Sochi) or using skaters who have gained large amounts of weight, but have also acknowledged that they have full-blown eating disorders to prove their points.

I don't think any of the posters who are arguing against all the weight discussion or "thinner is better in skating" nonsense are trying to say that elite skaters do not have to have eating plans that will be more restricted than they would be if they were not high-level competitive athletes, nor that their optimal skating weight is probably less than what their average weight would be if they suddenly quit the sport and were just leading non-athletic daily lives. But "restricted" should not mean a constant diet of extreme deprivation and "optimal" should have some room on both the plus and minus side. Coaches and judges should not be telling skaters to lose weight for aesthetic purposes (or even athletic purposes - that should be up to the skater and their medical support team only). Fans should not be deciding they know about skaters' weights by watching them on TV and deciding they know better about what would improve an athlete's training by making irresponsible public comments about their presumed weight, size or body type.

 

[MacMadame]

This is ridiculous. Probably they know better than we altogether here what is good for them. Probably they have experiences. Probably the skaters feel when they are strong, when they are in very good sporty shape. This is phisics and probably for ex Mishin who is a engineer and professor understands it. We don't know how much harder to jump if the skaters have plus weight.

You mean the skaters and coaches we have quoted here who talk about how they thought skinny was always better until they got too thin and lost power and then skated better when they started eating better and gaining some muscle?

That was rude, don’t you think?

Probably but I get tired of that poster responding to posts over and over where people point out that it's not just "skinny is better" and show actual skaters and coaches who say they lost power and skated poorly when they got too thin with skinny is better! and you if you don't agree, you have your head in the sand!

 

[lala]

So, are you an elite skater yourself? Or a scientist, perhaps, who has conducted controlled studies on the optimal power/ weight ratios for skaters?

I didn’t think so.

Yet you’re asserting your unsupported personal opinions as if they are facts - they’re not - and attacking someone who correctly told you that correlation does not equal causation. You’re entitled to your opinions, but you should perhaps remember that’s all they are, nothing more, and they’re no better than Mag’s or anyone else’s.

By the way, resorting to name calling based on someone’s presumed nationality is incredibly tacky and will not serve you well, either here or in real life.

Oh, yeah I wasn't attacked.. I was the bad! Yes I was rude, that is not my typical attitude but I tried to be. I will learn how to be rude. It seems that is allowed for some posters but not for everybody. You would have been fair if you have some critical words for mag or MacMadame.

 

[lala]

You mean the skaters and coaches we have quoted here who talk about how they thought skinny was always better until they got too thin and lost power and then skated better when they started eating better and gaining some muscle?

Probably but I get tired of that poster responding to posts over and over where people point out that it's not just "skinny is better" and show actual skaters and coaches who say they lost power and skated poorly when they got too thin with skinny is better! and you if you don't agree, you have your head in the sand!

Did you read I was talking about skeletons? Did I say the skaters do not need muscles? Did I say Javi, Yuzuru, Aliev etc have no muscles? And who is too skinny for your taste? Misha Ge posted this pic some days ago.. https://www.instagram.com/p/Bev2jNeB-pj/?taken-by=mishage8 Do you think he is too skinny? For me he is not too skinny he is lightweight but strong. (He can't jump quads but that is another reason we all know....)
I said a lightweight but strong skater can jumps more easily he can lift his body more easily and that is good for the knee and spine when they land. Can you imagine what power is applied to a spine when a skater lands in a quad?

 

[Tavi]

Oh, yeah I wasn't attacked.. I was the bad! Yes I was rude, that is not my typical attitude of me but I tried to be. I will learn how to be rude. It seems that is allowed for some posters but not for everybody. You would have been fair if you have some critical words for mag or MacMadame.

You are the only poster in this thread who said directly and specifically to another poster, “you are an idiot.” Let’s remember here that Mag did not call you an idiot. You may not have liked the fact that she liked someone else’s post that you felt was derogatory to you, but you chose to handle it in the worst way possible, by escalating and attacking her personally. And you escalated even more when you showed an anti American bias. You asked why I didn’t criticize anyone else in the thread. Partly, it’s because I thought your statements were worse. But it was also because you made an anti American remark for no reason at all. I’m an American, and I didn’t like it. That’s why it’s not a good idea to say things like that. It makes people who might have been neutral towards you feel negative instead.

 

[lala]

You are the only poster in this thread who said directly and specifically to another poster, “you are an idiot.” Let’s remember here that Mag did not call you an idiot. You may not have liked the fact that she liked someone else’s post that you felt was derogatory to you, but you chose to handle it in the worst way possible, by escalating and attacking her personally. And you escalated even more when you showed an anti American bias. You asked why I didn’t criticize anyone else in the thread. Partly, it’s because I thought your statements were worse. But it was also because you made an anti American remark for no reason at all. I’m an American, and I didn’t like it. That’s why it’s not a good idea to say things like that. It makes people who might have been neutral towards you feel negative instead.

Of course... you are right. I was the worst I make an "anti American" LOL! statement. You are so sensitive. I will use this statement "the people are idiot" if I have argument with someone. Thank you, I has learned.

 

[Tavi]

Of course... you are right. I was the worst I make an "anti American" LOL! statement. You are so sensitive. I will use this statement "the people are idiot" if I have argument with someone. Thank you, I has learned.

Have you indeed? As far as I can see, you still think you’re a blameless victim, that everybody else - now including me, I guess - is a bad guy attacking poor little you. I don’t think you see that people here simply got tired of responding to you politely and rationally because you weren’t listening to what they had to say and just kept pushing your own opinions as if they were the truth. I’ve pretty much reached the same point, so I’m going to bow out of the conversation now. Cheers.

 

[lala]

Have you indeed? As far as I can see, you still think you’re a blameless victim, that everybody else - now including me, I guess - is a bad guy attacking poor little you. I don’t think you see that people here simply got tired of responding to you politely and rationally because you weren’t listening to what they had to say and just kept pushing your own opinions as if they were the truth. I’ve pretty much reached the same point, so I’m going to bow out of the conversation now. Cheers.

I moved on.

 

[peibeck]

Look at the top 5 after the short program! Except Shoma, who is very short all of them are really skiny. So we can write many pages in this thread but the essence is there!

So why didn't other skinny skaters land their jumps if all they need to be is lightweight? On the Russian broadcast Lipnitskaia called Nathan Chen "fat." Yet he managed to land 6 quad jumps.

 

[lala]

So why didn't other skinny skaters land their jumps if all they need to be is lightweight? On the Russian broadcast Lipnitskaia called Nathan Chen "fat." Yet he managed to land 6 quad jumps.

I'M not Yulia. I don't think Nathan is fat.

 

[Spun Silver]

So why didn't other skinny skaters land their jumps if all they need to be is lightweight? On the Russian broadcast Lipnitskaia called Nathan Chen "fat." Yet he managed to land 6 quad jumps.

Was she joking? I am surprised at her, of all people! I wonder if she will be calling little skaters fat in her new academy.

 

[Red Hot Chili Keegan]

I moved on.

I'M not Yulia. I don't think Nathan is fat.

I am very confused by so many things in this thread but mostly I think must not understand the meaning of "moving on" because you are still here?

 

[lala]

I am very confused by so many things in this thread but mostly I think must not understand the meaning of "moving on" because you are still here?

sigh...I moved on from the debate with Tavi.. I'm here if I receive a post. I think we can argue in a civilized way as well..

 

[lala]

Was she joking? I am surprised at her, of all people! I wonder if she will be calling little skaters fat in her new academy.

She has no academy. I think they will hold masterclasses in some rented icerinks in different places. But @Tinami Amori probably can help us with explanation. I read it with gogle translater. And I'm sure the weight is problem only for the highest level skaters not for the little skaters.