From Russia with love [#28]: Autumn to Winter 2017

caseyedwards said:
They send two people with some of the worst work ethic in Skating to North America and they blame the horrible results on training in North America rather than the total lack of work ethic! Need to send a team with great work ethic to Montreal and also not be so nationalistic!
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There are many fine ice dancing coaches/centers throughout North America and Europe. Gadbois is hardly the only choice if Russian ice dancers want to train outside the country. Gadbois is just the "flavor" of the moment.
 
suki said:
There are many fine ice dancing coaches/centers throughout North America and Europe. Gadbois is hardly the only choice if Russian ice dancers want to train outside the country. Gadbois is just the "flavor" of the moment.
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Very true. Novi is also very crowded! Milan is exploding due to Fusar-Poli!
 
I do not think the Russians should go to foreign country. They have enough ex great dancers who can teach the new generation. Maybe they have a problem with the real talent ..
 
lala said:
I do not think the Russians should go to foreign country. They have enough ex great dancers who can teach the new generation. Maybe they have a problem with the real talent ..
Click to expand...
No the talent is there. There are also many natural talents. For example, Ivan Bukin has an ease on the ice and a knee bend that is remarkable, he just is not the best performer out there but that can be adjusted and worked on. Stepanova has some incredible lines and agility but no one is telling to go deeper on the ice (when you can see she could do it). Bobrova/Soloviev have a skating quality but their program and training years make their performance always look scrappy and rushed. The young team of S/A in junior have an elegance, and S/S have quite the skating skills.
Loboda/Drozd is one major issue for me : talent but horrifying packaging. They can get a level 4 quite easy on the pattern, but the style is a no. Them and Step/Bukin have in their programs some lifts and movements that seems out of place "oh look, I'm flexible, I can be a contortionnist"... but it does not look appealing and it breaks the choreo. Sometimes, Stepanova goes "ninja" with Bukin throwing her around with no real purpose.
I think they have to search somewhere out of the skating world for choreo sometimes. And sometimes (Not always !), get advice from international judges. Not just Russian judges.
 
Anyasnake said:
No the talent is there. There are also many natural talents. For example, Ivan Bukin has an ease on the ice and a knee bend that is remarkable, he just is not the best performer out there but that can be adjusted and worked on. Stepanova has some incredible lines and agility but no one is telling to go deeper on the ice (when you can see she could do it).
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I doubt they are not telling her, it is ice dance, they and everyone know it. And they admire V/M who are known for their quality of skating.
 
chapis said:
I doubt they are not telling her, it is ice dance, they and everyone know it. And they admire V/M who are known for their quality of skating.
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So right! If the ice dance fans know what they have to do the world champions, Olympic champions, medalists also know it.
 
Ka3sha said:
Big interview with Anna Pogorilaya
https://rsport.ria.ru/winter2018_analytics/20180116/1131205299.html

Her back still hurts a lot, she doesn’t know what to do with it and how to heal it as the doctors can’t make a right diagnosis, but still wants to continue.
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She needs to keep looking for doctors that can help her back. Surgery may not be out of the question, if that's what the doctors recommend. She shouldn't be training without fixing this problem or it could get even worse, affecting her off ice life as well.
 
lala said:
I do not think the Russians should go to foreign country. They have enough ex great dancers who can teach the new generation. Maybe they have a problem with the real talent ..
Click to expand...
I have definitely thought about the talent not being there anymore too! But almost all of ice dance talent is going to the new power centers. Half of European dance teams are in novi montreal or canton. They know. You don’t see this in singles. Even if the dancers are talented they’ve got to get to North America and be coached by dubreuil.

Anyasnake said:
No the talent is there. There are also many natural talents. For example, Ivan Bukin has an ease on the ice and a knee bend that is remarkable, he just is not the best performer out there but that can be adjusted and worked on. Stepanova has some incredible lines and agility but no one is telling to go deeper on the ice (when you can see she could do it). Bobrova/Soloviev have a skating quality but their program and training years make their performance always look scrappy and rushed. The young team of S/A in junior have an elegance, and S/S have quite the skating skills.
Loboda/Drozd is one major issue for me : talent but horrifying packaging. They can get a level 4 quite easy on the pattern, but the style is a no. Them and Step/Bukin have in their programs some lifts and movements that seems out of place "oh look, I'm flexible, I can be a contortionnist"... but it does not look appealing and it breaks the choreo. Sometimes, Stepanova goes "ninja" with Bukin throwing her around with no real purpose.
I think they have to search somewhere out of the skating world for choreo sometimes. And sometimes (Not always !), get advice from international judges. Not just Russian judges.
Click to expand...
The answer is to be trained by dubreuil or any of the North American schools. In the Russian school it’s ok for one person to be far inferior. In North America it’s all about both skaters being of equal strength. I think you are exactly right. Russian coaches aren’t telling Stepanova to be better because Bukin is considered good enough for both. It’s the whole of one is great that covers both of them philosophy that’s so engrained in Russian ice dance. But if Stepanova went to dubreuil she would be taught she needs to be better. She needs to be equal. This is why s/b aren’t moving up in the world.
 
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caseyedwards said:
I have definitely thought about the talent not being there anymore too! But almost all of ice dance talent is going to the new power centers. Half of European dance teams are in novi montreal or canton. They know. You don’t see this is singles. Even if the dancers are talented they’ve got to get to North America and be coached by dubreuil.
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There is potential talent in every single country. The main question is how these potentials are being breeded into greatness? Development, talent ID and great coaching will lead to great results. Ice dance has changed, have the Russians coached changed their training methods? Eteri has great results be ause she trains her girls differently than what was being done before. It has lead to a revolution and great results... The same has to be applied to ice dancing.
 
ChiquitaBanana said:
There is potential talent in every single country. The main question is how these potentials are being breeded into greatness? Development, talent ID and great coaching will lead to great results. Ice dance has changed, have the Russians coached changed their training methods? Eteri has great results be ause she trains her girls differently than what was being done before. It has lead to a revolution and great results... The same has to be applied to ice dancing.
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There has been no changing of any methods. Even though she never worked in ijs ice dance and really knows nothing about it Tarasova is still influencing all major dance teams. Why is this so? Why is she given power over ijs ice dance programs? It’s a terrible situation. Here you have this legend of ice dance being given great respect by current teams while their whole program collapses and they don’t want to put 2 and 2 together. To accomplish a revolution ice dancing the old guard needs to be ignored.
 
chapis said:
I doubt they are not telling her, it is ice dance, they and everyone know it. And they admire V/M who are known for their quality of skating.
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But that's the thing. While their upper-bodies are very dynamic, I noticed a couple of things in the legs where it's not that difficult to correct - and this has a lot to do with how you were taught. Especially the pattern at some point they get their leg up but on knee bend (from both) so no power, not more ice coverage, just a leg. It sounds silly, but had they been taught the right way from the beginning, they would have gotten their KP more often. Or an ease into the steps too.
(An example among others).
 
Why have all the Russian men (at least those in Singles and Pairs) looked so depressed these past few days?
 
Vagabond said:
Why have all the Russian men (at least those in Singles and Pairs) looked so depressed these past few days?
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:rofl::rofl:
I am not doing my annual speech again on “cultural differences” about “happy faces” and “Russia”. They are not depressed, they are “serious, sophisticated and respectable”, so they think… Russian saying: “acting too cheery makes you look silly” (смех без причины, признак дурачины)....

… and! these guys are doing pretty well… given that Kolyada is pissed off at himself…
http://g2.nh.ee/images/pix/900x600/LCPsmVfQvL4/iluuisutamine-80836349.jpg
https://rg.ru/img/content/149/88/45/RIAN_3277620_1000_t_650x433.jpg

… and it's pretty darn hard to get Russian guys to smile on a podium (with few exceptions) even with gold medals on their necks….:D
https://s5o.ru/storage/simple/ru/ugc/92/93/51//ruub45337abe6.jpg
http://www.spletnik.ru/img/2017/02/liza/16022017-led-06.jpg
http://www.relook.ru/data/cache/2015sep/07/44/182241_11179nothumb500.jpg
http://s56.radikal.ru/i152/0912/da/568744cf39f6.jpg
 
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Tinami Amori said:
I am not doing my annual speech again on “cultural differences” about “happy faces” and “Russia”. They are not depressed, they are “serious, sophisticated and respectable”, so they think… Russian saying: “acting too cheery makes you look silly” (смех без причины, признак дурачины)....
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They looked depressed before they took the ice, while they were skating, while they were coming off the ice, and when they were in the Kiss and Cry. This was not true of the female pair skaters, by the way.

Depressed people can make themselves smile. That doesn't mean they aren't depressed.
 
Vagabond said:
They looked depressed before they took the ice, while they were skating, while they were coming off the ice, and when they were in the Kiss and Cry. This was not true of the female pair skaters, by the way.
Depressed people can make themselves smile. That doesn't mean they aren't depressed.
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Oh, i see, during the times they were fighting for a place on a pedistal.... Then surely it's because Putin's pet-bear chased them and said they will be sent to Siberia if they don't medal.

caseyedwards said:
Men are just stems the women flowers!
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You got your musicals mixed up in content and country: "women are flowers and men are bees, who fly from flower to flower".
 
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Tinami Amori said:
:rofl::rofl:
I am not doing my annual speech again on “cultural differences” about “happy faces” and “Russia”. They are not depressed, they are “serious, sophisticated and respectable”, so they think… Russian saying: “acting too cheery makes you look silly” (смех без причины, признак дурачины)....

… and! these guys are doing pretty well… given that Kolyada is pissed at himself…
http://g2.nh.ee/images/pix/900x600/LCPsmVfQvL4/iluuisutamine-80836349.jpg
https://rg.ru/img/content/149/88/45/RIAN_3277620_1000_t_650x433.jpg

… and it's pretty darn hard to get Russian guys to smile on a podium (with few exceptions) even with gold medals on their necks….:D
https://s5o.ru/storage/simple/ru/ugc/92/93/51//ruub45337abe6.jpg
http://www.spletnik.ru/img/2017/02/liza/16022017-led-06.jpg
http://www.relook.ru/data/cache/2015sep/07/44/182241_11179nothumb500.jpg
http://s56.radikal.ru/i152/0912/da/568744cf39f6.jpg
Click to expand...

Oh...Aliev is the tallest..I didn't think so. All of them are so fragile and tiny.

I noticed the Russians aren't a smiling nation (There are except, of course).
 
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