VGThuy
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Having North Korean athletes at the Olympics in South Korea is way more important than a figure skating competition. It's like beyond and totally is what the Olympics strives to be.
North Korean pair team of Ryom/Kim qualify for the Olympics in South Korea (NYT articles)
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Karen-W
YMCA is such a catchy tune!
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Look, the US Pairs are no great shakes but they did actually earn two spots for Worlds this year. It just so happens that, because of the limited number of athletes and a perfect storm of teams qualifying ahead of them, the US only gets to send one pair to Korea. The USFSA wasn't even given a chance to qualify a second team at Nebelhorn (and given the unique circumstances, I personally think an exception should have been made).
Furthermore, if this was any other country (say, Israel) that neglected to inform the ISU that they would be using their pairs spot, would the IOC be granting them an additional wild card spot? Not a chance.
Furthermore, if this was any other country (say, Israel) that neglected to inform the ISU that they would be using their pairs spot, would the IOC be granting them an additional wild card spot? Not a chance.
ChiquitaBanana
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Nombrilisme is the first term that comes to my mind. [google translate]
misskarne
Handy Emergency Backup Mode
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*bemused expression* So the failure of one of the top US pairs to make the FS at Worlds somehow equates to taking away a spot from the little country pairs for...what reason, exactly? Do you want to tell Duskova and Bidar they qualified in the top 5 qualifiers at Nebelhorn but they can't go because the US pair they beat in Helsinki are gonna get to go instead because the US threw a strop over rules they already knew were in place? Or Conners/Krasnopolski?
thvu
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USFS had a chance to qualify a second pair, at worlds. It’s not the ISU or IOC’s fault our 2nd best pair and grand prix medalists couldn’t qualify for the Free. It’s also not the ISU or IOC’s responsibility to make-up for that shortcoming.
Wow, are you being purposefully dense, or do the geopolitical issues surrounding wanting NK athletes at the games just not make sense to you? Because they are major, they are big, and they are real.
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nimi
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Karen-W
YMCA is such a catchy tune!
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No, I am not being purposefully dense. Quite the opposite. I have not been a supporter of the bargaining method of dealing with North Korea's pursuit of nuclear weapons for at least the last decade. It has been an ill-fated policy that has led the world to this point, where we have legitimate reason to be concerned that some punk dictator is going to blow not just NE Asia to bits but a significant portion of the West Coast as well. I am not convinced that tossing another bone, like "oh, please, participate in the Winter Olympics," is going to accomplish anything beyond a two month delay in NoKo's inevitable march towards nuclear weapons. Study history and tell me what happened when the rest of the world tried the pacification and bargaining approach with a madman. That's right... WWII and the Holocaust.
Vagabond
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It's possible to do all three at the same time.I'm not sure whether to,
, or
.
MsZem
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Never thought I'd see a Duck Godwinning a discussion about pairs skating.
Karen-W
YMCA is such a catchy tune!
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Ducks fans are not some monolithic bunch of like-minded thinkers, no matter how blue our state routinely votes.
thvu
Usova's Apprentice
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Touché.It's possible to do all three at the same time.
nimi
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Just came across this on twitter
ETA: The AP article contains no new info re: Ryom/Kim but let's hope we'll hear from the IOC soon...
ETA: The AP article contains no new info re: Ryom/Kim but let's hope we'll hear from the IOC soon...
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Skittl1321
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So sad for the North Korean pairs skaters that their country is now participating (joint hockey team- wow), but they lost their spot.
And if they get it back, that's really sad for those who were told they would get it who will now lose it. Maybe the IOC can just add an extra team. There are so few pairs.
And if they get it back, that's really sad for those who were told they would get it who will now lose it. Maybe the IOC can just add an extra team. There are so few pairs.
VGThuy
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I thought the idea was just to add another team to the pairs event since they could easily do that and not mess with the warm-up groups. If that is what ends up happening, then them not registering in time (I truly believe it was due to no fault of the skating fed or the pairs team but rather something higher above) actually gave an Olympic opportunity to another pair while still allowing them to compete at the Olympics.
No definitive news, but this article discusses which North Korean athletes might attend given the unified team situation: http://www.cbc.ca/sports/olympics/who-is-north-korea-sending-olympics-1.4490928
Vagabond
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I am not being overly nationalistic and I believe the PKR team absolutely deserves a spot as they earned it, but if we are throwing in extra pairs spots I don't understand why they couldn't accommodate the United States for two since they earned it, but were knocked out due to a technicality. My issue is not with the Nebelhorn qualifiers or N. Korea, but the fact they are allowing extra spots, so IMO the US should get one as well. Yes, I know the rules, yes I know we blew it ourselves, and we don't need a 2nd spot, per se, but it seems fair as long as we are adding spots.
Tinami Amori
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This is an International discussion board, not "american".... so how many non-US posters do you think know who Sen. Graham and the "issues" are? Or are the "americans" the "inn-circle" here who know Graham.... and the rest are just by passing visitors?... really.....
Vagabond
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They are allowing an extra spot for North Korea because it's special. I wouldn't wish that kind of specialness on my own worst enemy.
Every single one who read post #41 in this thread.
Skittl1321
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This is an International discussion board, not "american".... so how many non-US posters do you think know who Sen. Graham and the "issues" are? Or are the "americans" the "inn-circle" here who know Graham.... and the rest are just by passing visitors?... really.....
I'm American but didn't know what exactly this refered to- I just know that Graham is a very conservative politician. Surely from context, non Americans would at least know he is a politician, which is nearly the same amount of information I was working with.
So I googled "Senator Lindsey Graham North Korea" and got this headline from an hour ago
US War With North Korea More Likely Because South Korea Is 'Undercutting' Trump, Lindsey Graham Claims
and
https://breakingdefense.com/2018/01...er-of-time-til-north-korean-redlines-crossed/
"Graham, regarded as one of the few senior GOP lawmakers who can both work with and criticize President Trump, appeared unhappy that South Korea has invited North Korea to the 2018 Winter Olympics. “How do you tell somebody in one breath, ‘hey little rocket man, you’re a bad man,’ and then invite him to the biggest party on the planet?”"
They are allowing an extra spot for North Korea because it's special. I wouldn't wish that kind of specialness on my own worst enemy.
Every single one who read post #41 in this thread.
NO, I get it. But wouldn't the US being knocked on out a technicality be special too? I see the logic. I get it's a very complicated situation and I am not saying I need to see a 2nd us team in the event, but it gets jumbled when it's a political situation like this. I mean, if we are letting PRK in let's just fill the warm up with Oberstdorf alternates and the US. Because why not?
Vagabond
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It's not a "technicality," it's a rule, and it would have been applied to any other country in the same position. So we're not special.
It's not as if the U.S. has a Pairs Team that is particularly deserving of a second spot anyhow. As Aerobicidal said of the European Pairs SP today:
Stiff upper lip. Life goes on. Them's the breaks.
morqet
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The US wasn't knocked out on a technicality. There were only 16 spots available from Worlds in 2017. The US only ranked high enough to qualify the 16th spot. They didn't have a 2nd spot taken from them on a technicality, that spot never existed to be taken from them. So can you all get over it and stop rehashing it again and again months after it was all explained the first time. PRK athletes earned their spot, it was actually taken from them by forces beyond their control, and their participation in the Games is far more important to the Olympic movement than giving spots to the US or any other country.
Funny how its only people wanting another spot for the US skaters and not fans from the countries that just missed out at Nebelhorn that are complaining
Karen-W
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Actu
And, while we are at it, fix the weirdness that is only 24 dance teams at the Olympics and make it 25 with 5 FULL warm-up groups.
Actually, I agree, if we are going to wind up with a 5th warm up group then fill it up. Give the next Nebelhorn qualifier a spot and the US one as well, and make it 24 teams instead of 20.The US wasn't knocked out on a technicality. There were only 16 spots available from Worlds in 2017. The US only ranked high enough to qualify the 16th spot. They didn't have a 2nd spot taken from them on a technicality, that spot never existed to be taken from them. So can you all get over it and stop rehashing it again and again months after it was all explained the first time. PRK athletes earned their spot, it was actually taken from them by forces beyond their control, and their participation in the Games is far more important to the Olympic movement than giving spots to the US or any other country.
Funny how its only people wanting another spot for the US skaters and not fans from the countries that just missed out at Nebelhorn that are complaining
And, while we are at it, fix the weirdness that is only 24 dance teams at the Olympics and make it 25 with 5 FULL warm-up groups.
Vagabond
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Would you be just as happy if they gave spots to the next two Nebelhorn qualifiers instead?
Karen-W
YMCA is such a catchy tune!
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Well, if the spots available was increased to 24 going forward, then chances are, the US team, as well as the 1st Nebelhorn qualifier (the Aussies), PRK and the Czechs (both of whom finished ahead of Australia at Worlds) would have qualified at 2017 Worlds, so we wouldn't be having this discussion about the perfect storm of qualifying spots that were taken last spring.
What I will say is that if it was Italy or France that got screwed out of a second Olympic team, the way the US was, I would be advocating for that country to get an Olympic spot just like I am the US. That whole scenario doesn't sit right with me, because, in reality, the country was good enough, overall to earn two spots for Worlds. Olympic quotas should be the same.
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The US wasn't knocked out on a technicality. There were only 16 spots available from Worlds in 2017. The US only ranked high enough to qualify the 16th spot. They didn't have a 2nd spot taken from them on a technicality, that spot never existed to be taken from them. So can you all get over it and stop rehashing it again and again months after it was all explained the first time. PRK athletes earned their spot, it was actually taken from them by forces beyond their control, and their participation in the Games is far more important to the Olympic movement than giving spots to the US or any other country.
Funny how its only people wanting another spot for the US skaters and not fans from the countries that just missed out at Nebelhorn that are complaining
Well, this 'special' spot never existed to begin with either. PRK earned their spot. Rightfully. Fine. I have no issue. They also rightfully gave it up by not completing the proper paperwork. If we are creating spots the US should get one as they finished with 28 points therefore earning them theoretically 2 spots. The chips fell where they did. If they weren't creating another spot now for PRK I have no problem with the US getting one spot. The two alternates at Nebelhorn and the US should get a spot as well if we are creating another warm up group. If the countries on the bubble want to complain it's fine with me. I just consider that fair, especially when France gave away their second spot. I think in that case it should go to the US. Those aren't the rules. I get it, but to me France giving away the spot should default to the World qualifier. So there are two different ways I feel the US should have gotten that second spot. I guess I am just an obnoxious American, but I firmly believe it's a crime the US and Canada have 3 ladies spots and Japan has 2 that's the rule. I get it but with a max of 16, no 17 teams now it does seem a little unfair. So the rule was 16, but now it's a goodwill 17. Add that to the fact there was no need for a 'goodwill' spot because the PRK team qualified fair and square. That is a little bizarre.
I guess I am just not clear as to why the rules stipulate the US doesn't get an alternate spot because of worlds, but we can dig all the way down to the bottom of Nebelhorn results to find subs. It's not the teams, it's not the countries, it's the very odd rules I object too.
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Vagabond
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One of the purposes of the Olympic movement is to bring athletes together from all over the world. From an Olympic perspective, it is better to include countries that may have only one Senior-level Pair Team than to give a country a second or third entry in the same discipline.
