The Shibutanis Thread 4: Ready for Paradise

[kittyjake5]

Just now learned the results. I was afraid of this. Losing their title before the Olympics
must be so disappointing for them. Group hug to the Shibs.

 

[Spun Silver]

Re: Charlie, I think he is just close with the Shibs and it’s probably more difficult to find things to say about such a disappointing moment for them.

I really don't think that was it. He had like 20 seconds of things to say about the Shibs and 10x as much about HD. It was as if he were crowning them before the judges did. Well, of course, he was looking at the TES tracker (does he see the judges' marks in real time?).

 

[VGThuy]

I think he honestly prefers H/D's program. That's fair.

 

[Spun Silver]

I think he honestly prefers H/D's program. That's fair.

Right... but it wasn't just the program he was raving about. It truly felt as though he dumped the Shibs. I hope you're right and I'm wrong, though.

 

[chapis]

I think he honestly prefers H/D's program. That's fair.

Maybe. No wonder why I always prefered to V/M over D/W.

 

[VGThuy]

I've suspected that for a while. Same with the Euro Brits and others. H/D are in and the Shibs are out. That's how it is inside the skating community. Outside the community, the Shibs are just hitting their potential in popularity. At the Olympics, I see the Shibs still being two of the big names there.

 

[DreamSkates]

Just now learned the results. I was afraid of this. Losing their title before the Olympics
must be so disappointing for them. Group hug to the Shibs.

By such a close margin, too. .2 of a point? Wow. Just a trip and loss of a title. Still my favorite ice dancers.

 

[Spun Silver]

I have a lot to say but I also need to rewatch the final skates. I only watched half of C/B because I thought they were boring and not in the mix. So much for first impressions.

So, what does everyone think about the changes to the program? I am still missing the big new lift they had in the first part of the season. As @chapis said after SA, it was the highlight of the program and the entire event. I am puzzled by all these backwards nods to FY. FY is done! Also, the FY music going straight into the twizzles --that didn't work IMO. The twizzles came out of nowhere instead of being a dramatic climax.

I almost wish they would just put the program back the way it was at SA and ENOUGH, just skate and stop making mistakes and they'll be fine!

 

[DreamSkates]

Yes, it is a positive thing that being national champions, H/D won´t be seen anymore like the poor victims who never win over the Shibs.
And Olympics are very different from any other competition, yes, the last two competitions Maia and Alex made mistakes, but H/D made mistakes too, this FD spin level 2, we can´t deny that H/D are more prone to mistakes and Korea will be their first olympics games.

And the Shibs had their years of "could never win." Yes, let's see what happens at the Olympics, I'm still cheering for the Shibs.

 

[DreamSkates]

Ha, glad I left that thread early

The Shibs probably know not to take boards such as these, too seriously. They will look at the scores the judges gave them, knowing why they gave up points, work with their coaching team, and come back stronger in February.

 

[Spun Silver]

Well I'm here in the arena. I thought the Shibs were great. I know Maia made the costly mistake on the step sequence, but I was still blown away by their skating. Truly. (I guess that means I'm just an uber??) I feel very dissatisfied with the results of this event.

Claire, how would you have ranked the top four? I have to include H/B because their skate and TES were phenomenal. I am a little surprised that you are dissatisfied because I know you love H/D too.

Personally, I felt Maddie and Zach skated magically and their program is just a more powerful vehicle than the Shibs', so when they finally hit it and the Shibs messed up, the loss was inevitable. I was blown away at the beginning of the program but then the music change and mistake (and Charlie's commentary - he said they couldn't afford that mistake) broke the mood for me and I got tense. The Shibs keep tinkering with their program. Every change means less muscle memory and more time spent on things other than practicing. It's been tough. I don't understand why they needed to change it after SA. But anyway, the scoring was so close! Without that one error the Shibs would have won. I'm disappointed but not shocked or worried about the future.

 

[chapis]

Now I realize how lucky I was to see their performances live on Skate America, they really just need to repeat those performances to get those points. No idea why they changed the straight line lift, they got GOE all 3 and only one 2 in the Nationals, but we do not know what they will get in an international competition

 

[chapis]

But I noticed that they were skating very fast, great ice coverage and especially deeper edges. And after the mistake, they did not change the mood, Alex even smiled just after the mistake and Maia was giving face too.

 

[Vash01]

That small mistake turned out to be costly.

As Marina told them, Your Paradise is in Pyongchang. I hope they win an Olympic medal there.

 

[VGThuy]

You know what happened last time at a competition in February after the Shibs underperformed at Nationals?

 

[Firedancer]

Without the error in the step sequence the Shibs would have won. I’m sure they realize that and will go back, review what happened with their coaches and drill the FD until the Olympics to make sure that does not happen again. I went back and rewatched the Shibs and until the second step sequence I loved it and thought the program was going great. That one mistake (thank god Alex caught her) was the difference.

I like the music change. I think it helps tell the story better if someone didn’t already get it. And I felt more impact on the twizzles. If they skate well at the Olympics they will be fine.

 

[Spun Silver]

You know what happened last time at a competition in February after the Shibs underperformed at Nationals?

Actually, no. I am staring at their results and trying to figure out what you mean. It must be 4CCs but I dont see the pattern you mean.

 

[VGThuy]

They got personal bests at 2017 4CC and were only like 2 points away from V/M in the FD and the loudest ovation in Korea for a FD not many people liked earlier this season despite all the medals they won with it.

 

[Spun Silver]

They got personal bests at 2017 4CC and were only like 2 points away from V/M in the FD and the loudest ovation in Korea for a FD not many people liked earlier this season despite all the medals they won with it.

Oh gosh. How could I forget last year's drama? Thanks. I am glad to see you have already started thinking positively. They lost by 0.19 points. It is not earth-shaking.

 

[VGThuy]

And they lost due something within their control. It wasn't like they hit all of their elements and were just passed over. A lot of Olympic champions lost their nationals right before the Olympics. I just wanted Alex and Maia to get the publicity and fame that comes from being champions going into Pyeongchang.

 

[Firedancer]

Other than H/D’s cosmo article, the Shibs are the only US dance team I have seen getting attention.

 

[Spun Silver]

And they lost due something within their control. It wasn't like they hit all of their elements and were just passed over. A lot of Olympic champions lost their nationals right before the Olympics. I just wanted Alex and Maia to get the publicity and fame that comes from being champions going into Pyeongchang.

A lot of publicity comes with a good rivalry and being underdogs too.

 

[Spun Silver]

Other than H/D’s cosmo article, the Shibs are the only US dance team I have seen getting attention.

HD got a Cosmo article? Cool. I hate that mag but it's still good PR for them.

 

[skatfan]

I was in the arena this afternoon, and thought the results were fair. The stumble cost them. I love the first half of the program, and I know they want to add more energy into the 2nd half. It felt a little obvious to me to do the Fix You section, but mileage will vary on that. I also thought their last lift lost a little control, and she had a really minor issue on the 2nd twizzle. Cumulatively, it broke the spell a bit, which is why I think the PCS fell a bit.

In the arena, the Shibs are the favorite, and while all the standing O's were partial this afternoon, the Shibs probably had the largest one.

The message was clear: we will reward you if you skate at the highest level, but all 3 teams are very, very close.

 

[VGThuy]

Glad to see it wasn't a total bust, and am glad to hear that the first half was loved by multiple in-arena reports I've read.

 

[Spun Silver]

Now I realize how lucky I was to see their performances live on Skate America, they really just need to repeat those performances to get those points. No idea why they changed the straight line lift, they got GOE all 3 and only one 2 in the Nationals, but we do not know what they will get in an international competition

It got 5.79 at the GPF with a 1 and only 2 3s. So basically all 2s and a 3. I feel a little guilty as at one point I suggested this kind of "triumph" lift in this thread. But it comes at the wrong point of the program. Right after the triumph lift come the lyrics "Stuck in reverse" --no no no. They haven't reached paradise yet. The original lift reflects the theme of falling that goes with the middle section of the program.

 

[Spun Silver]

I've suspected that for a while. Same with the Euro Brits and others. H/D are in and the Shibs are out. That's how it is inside the skating community. Outside the community, the Shibs are just hitting their potential in popularity. At the Olympics, I see the Shibs still being two of the big names there.

H/D are definitely in this year and I think they earned it fairly. But let's not forget how In the Shibs were with FY. Euro Brits thought it was about the best FD they'd ever seen.

It's very hard to stay at that peak of critical acclaim. TBH I dont think this Trilogy was the best way to do it. But Alex and Maia have worked their butts off not only to build their own brand, but also to skate the heck out of the Trilogy programs. And when they do them cleanly and all-out they win. Paradise isn't quite strong enough to carry them past a mistake or a "head-driven" performance. That's unfortunate. But I still think they are better off returning to the SA version and drilling it over and over than continuing to tinker with it. Tinkering leads to patchwork like the misplaced "victory lift", and also to less ability to reply on muscle memory. With enough drills, when the time comes they can let go and skate without thinking while their bodies do the work.

 

[VGThuy]

Yeah, all of the other revamps worked except for the lift and the explicit "Fix You" music cut. Take that cut out, go back to the old lift, use your disappointment from Nationals and the GPF to carry the emotion in the first half and remember your triumph and how much you worked to become the American leaders in 2018 after being close to being passed over for the second half. Enjoy the Olympic moment for what it is and know that they have the most fans from all over the world cheering for them.

 

[Spun Silver]

Yeah, all of the other revamps worked except for the lift and the explicit "Fix You" music cut. Take that cut out, go back to the old lift, use your disappointment from Nationals and the GPF to carry the emotion in the first half and remember your triumph and how much you worked to become the American leaders in 2018 after being close to being passed over for the second half. Enjoy the Olympic moment for what it is and know that they have the most fans from all over the world cheering for them.

Please send this message to them now!

What were the other changes? If you have time.

 

[VGThuy]

I heard more violin in the opening and a lot more guitar in the end. I thought that really worked.