Can't Help Falling In Love ... with Hubbell & Donohue (fan thread #2)

[topaz]

Hubbell and Donahue are officially in the GPF.

So happy for them. I hope they skate their best and I hope it lands them on the podium.

 

[semogal]

A big thank you to Madison and Zach for introducing me to Beth Hart (classic 70s rock is my thing so I had never heard of her). I have been playing her stuff on youtube and shared the "Caught out in the Rain" video with my hubby who fell in love with her music. This afternoon I showed him the FD from NHK and he was blown away. Said he thought the music fit them perfectly.

 

[vireo]

Hubbell and Donahue are officially in the GPF.

I don't think they are "officially" in the GPF yet, as it is still within the realm of possibility for them to be bumped by some of the teams competing at SA next week. I would be very surprised, though, if they didn't qualify. It would require some shocking results from SA. Here's a link to the standings for anyone wanting to do the arithmetic.

http://www.isuresults.com/events/gp2017/gpsdance.pdf

 

[blancanieves]

A big thank you to Madison and Zach for introducing me to Beth Hart (classic 70s rock is my thing so I had never heard of her). I have been playing her stuff on youtube and shared the "Caught out in the Rain" video with my hubby who fell in love with her music. This afternoon I showed him the FD from NHK and he was blown away. Said he thought the music fit them perfectly.

Here's a Beth Hart performance I think you'll love: 2012 Kennedy Center Honors

More on-topic, I feel there were attempts to hold down H/D in both of their GP events, so I'm happy that they'll be at the GPF nevertheless.

 

[Marta24]

Part 6 of a day with Madison Hubbell and Zachary Donohue
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCQyckeu4dY

 

[levineismine]

Congrats to Madi and Zach on officially making the GPF! Looking at the scores on the series, they could pass C/L and C/B and try to battle the Shibs (who are still ahead) for bronze.

 

[cocotaffy]

It definitely looks like they are ahead of C/L and C/B right now. OTOH they still need to get couple of points to catch the Shibs. I prefer H/D by far especially the FD, sophisticated, sultry and more layered emotionally but it will be a battle for them. The Shibs are so consistent and have been making good use of their full month since Rostelecom. I expect them to have a very strong showing in the GPF. H/B can't mess up and need the type of SD performance they put up at Worlds last year but for both programs.

 

[levineismine]

I think the PCS at the GPF will be telling on how judges see them in the 'hierarchy'. Until worlds last year IIRC C/B and the Shibs were close, and H/D were a step back from them in all the direct competitions. I expect that now they would (should) be rewarded at least the same if not more than C/B.
It's crucial that they skate well to at least be seen in contention for the US title. Even if the get 4th but within distance from the Shibs, would be a good step forward.

 

[semogal]

Agree. Their TES is really close to the Shibs and they actually outscore them on a few elements. It is the PCS where the Shibs are pulling out in front.

 

[VGThuy]

I honestly think technically speaking and even PCS wise, Hubbell/Donohue have pulled away from teams like Cappellini/Lanotte, Weaver/Poje, Chock/Bates, Bobrova/Soloviev, and Stepanova/Bukin who are also in the medal hunt. Watching their rhumba pattern and comparing it with W/P’s at Skate Canada IMO made it clear. I think both them and the Shibs have made clear cases that they are a step above.

 

[clairecloutier]

I honestly think technically speaking and even PCS wise, Hubbell/Donohue have pulled away from teams like Cappellini/Lanotte, Weaver/Poje, Chock/Bates, Bobrova/Soloviev, and Stepanova/Bukin who are also in the medal hunt. Watching their rhumba pattern and comparing it with W/P’s at Skate Canada IMO made it clear. I think both them and the Shibs have made clear cases that they are a step above.

I so much agree with this. To me personally, there is no longer any question that the Shibs and Hubbell/Donohue should be a level above those other teams. I feel both the Shibs' and H/D's skating skills, interpretation, choreography, and general quality have stepped up a big notch this year. Now I just hope that both teams can skate error-free at the GPF and that the judges will see it the same way!

 

[topaz]

Agree. Their TES is really close to the Shibs and they actually outscore them on a few elements. It is the PCS where the Shibs are pulling out in front.

I agree and it puzzles me really. The Shibs performed very well at both gp event this season but scoring for H/D at NHK was very disappointing. IMO, the worse dance judging this season(in regards to the teams 2nd - 5th). C/L and H/D received the same GOE for several elements. Also, C/L beat H/D in pcs at both comps. which I disagree with in regards to SS, TR, IN.

It will interesting to see how that plays out at GPF. Even though I am uber for H/D, I completely respect and like the programs that The Shibs and C/B have put out this season. I really enjoy and like C/B's free skate especially. It's going to be interesting to see The Shibs FD and H/D FD back to back. IMO, H/D and P/C have the best free dances of any teams this season.

 

[blancanieves]

From nbcolympics.com: new Q&A with Madison Hubbell

 

[Anyasnake]

"What would you be doing if you weren’t an athlete?"
"I would have liked to go to medical school, to become a forensic pathologist."
...
"Can you describe your perfect day off?"
"I would like to go to the market, buy fresh fruits and flowers. I would like to cook a big meal with family and prepare a homemade dessert. "

These 2 questions back to back are the best !

 

[Bellanca]

"Can you describe your perfect day off?"
"I would like to go to the market, buy fresh fruits and flowers. I would like to cook a big meal with family and prepare a homemade dessert. "

 

[UMBS Go Blue]

If you haven't already voted, Zach could use, ahem, some love in this poll:
https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/threads/2017-porny-skater-of-the-year-men-final-poll.102441/

I'm sure he'd be very appreciative of each and every vote.

 

[topaz]

I am completely disappointed for Madi and Zach today. They were obviously pushed down today. The lowest score of the season. Their edge quality, speed and power were closer to V/M and P/C than C/L and C/B. I truly believe the USFSA wanted to make it known that the Shibs are the US#1 without any close competition.

I can't see how Madi/Zach have shot as US Nationals champs now. In fact, it looks like they may be 3rd at Nationals. Madi/Zach were the only team to score considerably less than their season average with no mistakes at all.

 

[levineismine]

I wouldn't be so discouraged. They have a great fd so if they skate well they can pass C/B as a solid #2 and get close to that 3rd place. We know unfortunately that ice dance hierarchies are not revolutionized overnight so if they keep moving up I would still consider it a good sign.
I think their time will come in the next couple of years (although I believe they deserve it now). Usfs and international judges are still for the Shibs as the 78 with non brilliant skating showed.

 

[lauravvv]

I can't see how Madi/Zach have shot as US Nationals champs now. In fact, it looks like they may be 3rd at Nationals. Madi/Zach were the only team to score considerably less than their season average with no mistakes at all.

They had level 3 twizzles and level 3 partial sequence, so it's 2.50 points less in base value than at Skate Canada and NHK Trophy, meaning that with the same base value their score here would have been higher than at Skate Canada. Their PCS are higher than at NHK, and around the same (actually a tiny bit higher) as at Skate Canada. Judges haven't "dumped" them at all.

 

[topaz]

They had level 3 twizzles and level 3 partial sequence, so it's 2.50 points less in base value than at Skate Canada and NHK Trophy, meaning that with the same base value their score here would have been higher than at Skate Canada. Their PCS are higher than at NHK, and around the same (actually a tiny bit higher) as at Skate Canada. Judges haven't "dumped" them at all.

And I rewatched it, they hit all the key points with speed and edge quality. There was no reason to give them level 3 twizzles. In fact they have not received level 3 on clean twizzles in a long time. They have received level 4 all season on twizzles. Also, pattern steps sequence was slightly better than Skate Canada and they received a lower score here. In fact they received their lowest score of the season in pattern steps here.

As with NHK, IMO it became clearer that the judges are "rank" scoring TES. However they feel the teams should be ranks, they are giving levels and GOE according to this. Giving C/L the same GOE on elements like twizzles and pattern dance. How do two or three teams get the same GOE and level for the same elements for two competitions? The truth is that is not really possible.

And yes, I think Madi and Zach are slightly underscored PCS wise. I feel they should be scored higher than the Shibs in some elements of the pcs(SS and PE) and comparable on others(TR, CH and IN)

I'm on my out to work so no time to give additional details. However, look at the element scoring in the SD for H/D, C/L at NHK. Compare it to this competition along with C/B.

 

[cocotaffy]

I'm puzzled too because they lost a lot of levels and their skating really doesn't show it. I will rewatch carefully but the twizzles are a mystery. Shibs were very tentative and with a level 2 they shouldn't have been nearly as close as their SB, they were the most nervous I've seen in a long time. But also H/D being that close to C/B is even more of a puzzle. Anyway, I hope they have a strong comeback in the free.

 

[lmarie086]

I've watched a couple times now and I'm not seeing what they missed on the twizzles, or on the steps. Really surprised that didn't end up with a SB. But I hope they put it behind them, or use it for extra motivation and nail everything in the FD Saturday.

 

[VGThuy]

Watch Madison's second set of the twizzles. There was a slight near miss and her rotation was interrupted slightly. It was slight, but to me it was noticeable and any interruption no matter how slight affects the level since Twizzles are all about continuous uninterrupted rotation and movement. Of course, it helped that I was watching them trying to figure out why they received a level 3 which is unusual for them. As for the NTMSt, I'm not as in-tecknik as I'd like but compared to the Shibs turns and steps, there was a sloppier execution on the exit overall and in one particular step in the beginning where I felt the exit wasn't as clean as it could have been.

 

[GreenGan]

@VIETgrlTerifa haha was about to post this. If you want to see this kind of mistake on an other couple, it's why Chock and Bates got level 3 twizzles in Boston's SD : look at Evan's feet https://youtu.be/ILdza-qlGAg?t=2m30s

On the other hand, I'm finally getting H/D's SD. I couldn't get in any of their program this year but I've really liked this outing. Madison is selling the heck out of it and I finally noticed Zach too. Great !

 

[blancanieves]

I am completely disappointed for Madi and Zach today. They were obviously pushed down today. The lowest score of the season. Their edge quality, speed and power were closer to V/M and P/C than C/L and C/B. I truly believe the USFSA wanted to make it known that the Shibs are the US#1 without any close competition.

I can't see how Madi/Zach have shot as US Nationals champs now. In fact, it looks like they may be 3rd at Nationals. Madi/Zach were the only team to score considerably less than their season average with no mistakes at all.

For what it's worth, S/S were 4th at the GPF before going on to win gold at the 2016 U.S. Championships. So I'm not losing hope. H/D are certainly doing what they need to do to help their case, skating great.


Edited to add: Despite a 2.8 BV point deficiency (against S/S), H/D earned the greatest GOE total out of the three U.S. teams, 8.92 points. S/S earned 8.75, and C/B with a 1 BV point advantage (against H/D) earned 7.78 in GOE.

 

[lauravvv]

And I rewatched it, they hit all the key points with speed and edge quality. There was no reason to give them level 3 twizzles and step sequence was better than Skate Canada and they received a lower score here.

I didn't say dumped I said pushed down. I didnt see any reason for level 3 on the twizzles and the quality of the step sequence compared to the shibs was comparable.

I didn't mean to quote you with "dumped". I put it in quotation marks as an expression that other people often use in such cases. As for pushed down, the technical panel had no real reason to push H/D down. They must have known that judges were going to give higher GOE and PCS to Shibutanis anyway. And they also gave level 2 on the rhumba sequence to Shibutanis. While the judging on step sequence and compulsory pattern levels is often arguable, I have practically never (or never) seen technical panels give lower levels on twizzles without a reason. There have been quite many cases when the reason (for a lower level) was not easy to spot, but eventually someone has always spotted it. In this case, I haven't seen the SD myself yet (am at work, so couldn't watch), so I can't tell anything about Madison and Zachary's twizzles.

I'm on my out to work so no time to give additional details. However, look at the element scoring in the SD for H/D, C/L at NHK. Compare it to this competition along with C/B.

I will look at it a bit later.

In any case, my point was that H/D's GOE and PCS haven't gone down from the previous competitions, so there is no reason to be so pessimistic about their chances at Nationals yet. Only select few people thought that they have real hopes of beating Shibutanis for US number one this season, especially after Skate America, so their placement here in relation to Shibutanis is not some huge surprise. But they are in front of Chock/Bates and have a higher technical mark than them even despite a lower base value. The PCS difference is smaller than it could and should be, but the higher GOE is a good sign.

 

[lauravvv]

Sorry, a repeat post.

 

[blancanieves]

sorry, double post

 

[semogal]

Looking at their SD elements, I would like to see them address their lift. They have received a level 4 at each GP outing but the actual element score has been going down: 6.13, 5.87, 5.79. The Shibs rotational lift is scoring over 6 at each outing: 6.04, 6.21, 6.13. Every tenth of a point matters at this stage of the game.

 

[UMBS Go Blue]

I agree with your sentiment on getting as many points as possible, but what I'd personally love to see is their finally attaining level 4s on the step sequences in the SD. The difference between +2 and +3 GOE on what's already a Level 4 lift is not as big as that between Level 3 or 4 on the step sequences. That (and the level 3 on the twizzles) is why their base value lagged in the SD here at GPF versus their two GP events.

Not meant to be a criticism of them either. It's just that when the stars are aligned, both execution and the levels can combine for a breakthrough, win-win situation.

Edited to add: Madi is way behind in the Women PSOTY poll. Vote for her here and help get her to a stronger finish!
https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/threads/2017-women-psoty-final-poll.102549/