Pairs Discussion Thread 2017-18--"Two Skating as One"

[s_parks]

Sui/Han's lp may be a disappointment, but i love their short and it's clear regardless that they're the best team right now. S/M are the only ones that can beat them, but aliona landing both throws cleanly looks even less likely than sui going clean on her sbs 3s.

 

[MAXSwagg]

If Stolbova and Klimov can get it together, they can win because they have so many good qualities, he has the best footwork of any man win it comes to the lifts, she is dynamic, and they have the best skating skills. They are young enough to go to 2022 though. Sui/Han would also be worthy of OGM. S/M, I can't get over his poor qualities. Their points come mostly from Aliona. D/R winning would be damaging to the art of "pair" skating.

 

[barbarafan]

Jumping on to say that it was nice having David P. doing the commentary (CBC channel) for Cup of China. Throughout he was providing technical details which made it more interesting.

I agree...he really pts out what exactly what has gone wrong on the elements. On MTM2 the last lift you could see Michael was losing it but he recovered so you think he did something wrong but David pointed out KMT's leg in wrong place which threw off balance.

 

[firstflight]

Sui/Han's lp may be a disappointment, but i love their short and it's clear regardless that they're the best team right now. S/M are the only ones that can beat them, but aliona landing both throws cleanly looks even less likely than sui going clean on her sbs 3s.

This is exactly what I was saying. Regardless of thoughts on the worthiness of a program to win Olympic gold, we’ve all watched the same Grand Prix outings of the top teams. It’s just pretty straightforward that a clean S/H will probably win. Once mistakes from any of the top teams come into the mix, then of course any other finish order can happen.

 

[slipchuk]

Stolbova & Klimov cant even do the triple twist properly at the moment. With their inconsistency this whole quad apart from great performances to win the 2016 GPF it is likely they wont even be politiked as Russian #1 which will likely be the consistent Tarasova & Morozov. Given this even if they skated great at the Games, assuming they still have the poor twist with it, they probably wouldnt win, and might not even medal, depending how the other pairs performed.

I agree they could recover, but it probably wont be this season. Too much going against them. Any color medal at the Games will be a victory for them.

 

[Deleted member 19433]

Sui/Han's lp may be a disappointment, but i love their short and it's clear regardless that they're the best team right now. S/M are the only ones that can beat them, but aliona landing both throws cleanly looks even less likely than sui going clean on her sbs 3s.

Aliona did land both throws cleanly (with GOEs of +2 and +3 across the board) in the Skate Canada FS. Granted, one was only a double axel, so that still might not be enough (especially if Bruno messes up both side-by-side jump elements like he did there...).

 

[s_parks]

Aliona did land both throws cleanly (with GOEs of +2 and +3 across the board) in the Skate Canada FS. Granted, one was only a double axel, so that still might not be enough (especially if Bruno messes up both side-by-side jump elements like he did there...).

Precisely... while clean, a 2A and 3S won't cut it. She needs to stop trying the 3A and focus on getting a 3f throw clean.

 

[rfisher]

Lifts S/M have better, more complicated lifts. Basic skating, Savchenko is waaaaaay better (pity Massot is not). It will depend on who skates best. I wouldn't give it to anybody at this point. And Sui/Han will skate against Stolbova/Klimov this weekend (who also have way better basic skills). I don't expect Stol/Klim to win because their twist is a shadow of itself and injury lurks around every skate.

 

[Ka3sha]

Trankov's comment on Sui/Han breaking V/T's record

For me, this result did not come as a surprise. They skate well, and they should have done it long ago. I think it’s unlikely that other pairs will reach our record (in the free program), not to mention the result of the Chinese. I always said that they are the main contenders for Olympic gold. They are the current World Champions. This pair has consistent skating and they are the only pair in the world who is in harmony with choreography and technique.

http://fs-gossips.com/maxim-trankov-sui-and-han-should-have-broken-our-record-long-ago/

 

[mattiecat13]

My friends and I were discussing how it seems dance couples tend to stay together for years whereas pairs couples (at least in the United States) do not. Does anyone have any ideas why this may be so? Is it because pairs skating is more dangerous so fewer parents/girls want to willing to try it or stick it out?

 

[antmanb]

Sui and Han's SP is my favourite of the season it is just I might come round to their LP later in the season, it just didn't grab me the same way that the SP did.

Pairs is turning out to be very interesting this season.

 

[MAXSwagg]

Ksenia and Fedor never cease to just blow me away with their skating skills. 10s every time, no matter what they do.

 

[Amantide]

Ksenia and Fedor never cease to just blow me away with their skating skills. 10s every time, no matter what they do.

I could watch them for hours just stroking. That's how good their SS are.
The problem is that they are not fully fit though. They have improved a lot since Russia and they got good scores. But they need to skate clean and give good performances in the GPF, and continue to do so at the Russian nationals as well as in the European Champ. There is still time so if they do that they have a good chance, otherwise they don't. It's such a pity cause when they are in good form they are fantastic to watch. They are still young but I don't think they will continue after the Olympics.

 

[whiteskates]

I think you may be right, Amantide. S/K may not continue after the Olympics unless they do very well. If so they may do Worlds as well which I hope they do and I hope they go on for another couple of years as well. There is of course also the question of whether Savchenko/Massot will continue after the Olympics (provided Bruno gets his citizenship so they get to go at all!). After all, Aljona will be 34 years old in January. We know she's the type who never quits but still... If S/M decide not to go to Worlds, S/K will be rid of a strong rival.

 

[Quadjump]

I think you may be right, Amantide. S/K may not continue after the Olympics unless they do very well. If so they may do Worlds as well which I hope they do and I hope they go on for another couple of years as well. There is of course also the question of whether Savchenko/Massot will continue after the Olympics (provided Bruno gets his citizenship so they get to go at all!). After all, Aljona will be 34 years old in January. We know she's the type who never quits but still... If S/M decide not to go to Worlds, S/K will be rid of a strong rival.

Aljona has mentioned that she would love to continue for at least one more season. I expect her and Bruno to compete at worlds because she will not miss her 11th world´s medal.

2022 still in the rooms of possibilities.

 

[Aimless]

This may not be the best place for this inquiry but here goes. It seems to me that standards for SBS jumps for pairs are not scrutinized as closely as they are for singles. If they can just stand up and be synchronized, that seems to be enough. Is this so?

 

[RoseRed]

This may not be the best place for this inquiry but here goes. It seems to me that standards for SBS jumps for pairs are not scrutinized as closely as they are for singles. If they can just stand up and be synchronized, that seems to be enough. Is this so?

I don't know if they're looked at as hard, but it's not that rare to see UR calls I think. Cali/Leduc get them often enough I think. And Bruno Marcotte told a story about how as a tech caller he downgraded a triple for Meagan Duhamel and her partner at JW because he didn't get the rotation. Apparently she still never lets him forget it.

 

[barbarafan]

I could watch them for hours just stroking. That's how good their SS are.
The problem is that they are not fully fit though. They have improved a lot since Russia and they got good scores. But they need to give go clean and give good performances in the GPF and continue to do so at the Russian nationals and Europeans as well. There is still time so if they do that they have a good chance, otherwise they don't. It's such a pity cause when they are in good form they are fantastic to watch. They are still young but I don't think they will continue after the Olympics.

They got good scores in Finlandia and Russia because they were marked on past performances not on the night. If they make GPF it is a gift. Flopping around on the ice does not make for good PCS. However they were beautiful again last outing and it looks like the twist is the only problem that is not working right. I do love this pair and it is sad when injury comes to such talent.

 

[clairecloutier]

This may not be the best place for this inquiry but here goes. It seems to me that standards for SBS jumps for pairs are not scrutinized as closely as they are for singles. If they can just stand up and be synchronized, that seems to be enough. Is this so?

I don't think so, really. There have been quite a few UR/downgrade calls this season on pairs side-by-side jumps. And judges take negative GOE off for hands down, 2ft, etc. It's just that overall, pairs are doing many fewer jumps than singles (only 3 passes in a competition versus 11 or so for singles), so the sheer volume of calls/-GOE on jumps is much less. To get a sense, here's the LP protocol for NHK.

 

[Amantide]

They got good scores in Finlandia and Russia because they were marked on past performances not on the night. If they make GPF it is a gift. Flopping around on the ice does not make for good PCS. However they were beautiful again last outing and it looks like the twist is the only problem that is not working right. I do love this pair and it is sad when injury comes to such talent.

No I meant they got good scores in Japan. I never take as ref. scores that skaters receive in their own country tbh. Whether skaters do well or not, they always are inflated smh in their own country.
How many places are avaliable for GPF, 6? Are they at risk of not making it? I don't remember now who's competing where and the calculations.

 

[hanca]

I love Sui/Han's short program. Their Turandot just doesn't do it for me and I can see them losing to other top teams if everyone goes clean. The reason Turandot worked so well for Shen/Zhao is that S/Z had this raw, almost unpolished energy, so they turn the familiarity of the music into their advantage. S/H's artistry is a little more subtle; they have better skating skills but less presence, so they would be better suited for a less dramatic but more nuanced piece of music.

The judges are not marking the program, they are marking the skating, otherwise Savchenko/Massot would win worlds last season. Their program was a masterpiece.

 

[Dobre]

Sui & Han are the complete package and brilliant performers. Both of them.

Savchenko & Massot haven't reached their limit. It will be a tremendous Olympics if both teams do.

And if not, we may wind up with Duhamel & Radford or Candyman . . .

 

[Amantide]

This may not be the best place for this inquiry but here goes. It seems to me that standards for SBS jumps for pairs are not scrutinized as closely as they are for singles. If they can just stand up and be synchronized, that seems to be enough. Is this so?

UR yes, they are called on that most of the time. The right or wrong edge maybe not.

 

[MAXSwagg]

The judges are not marking the program, they are marking the skating, otherwise Savchenko/Massot would win worlds last season. Their program was a masterpiece.

I saw it live. It was pretty sloppy.

 

[hanca]

I saw it live. It was pretty sloppy.

I saw it live too. I was there. It definitely was not sloppy. It was very close between Savchenko/Massot and Sui/Han. Both pairs had some mistakes. But if the judges were marking how great the program is as @ssminnow suggests, the balance would tip to S/M. The fact that Sui/Han came on top shows that the judges don’t really care about the program, they care only about skating (as it should be in my view).

 

[antmanb]

I love Stolbova and Klimov but I'm not a fan of their Carmen LP I don't find it engaging enough. If I just watch her she's trying to sell it, but he's just not up to her level....I actually think Bruno (despite some issues with his lines and posture) is going that extra mile this season that Fedor isn't (to use an example of another pair where the female is the stand out star of the show.

I agree that Sui/Han are the complete package and I like their Turandot a little more after watching the NHK LPs. Savchenk/Massot will have to land every element if they want a hope of beating them. If Duhamel and Radford clean up the elements by the Olys they are also in the hunt.

There are things I like about all four couples so I don't really mind how they all end up placing as long as they all skate the best they can.

 

[Areski]

Sui & Han are the complete package and brilliant performers. Both of them.

Savchenko & Massot haven't reached their limit. It will be a tremendous Olympics if both teams do.

And if not, we may wind up with Duhamel & Radford or Candyman . . .

Candyman 2.0 OGM LP. The sheer thought of it makes me cringe. They're good people and their technical skills are mighty but please skating gods don't let this happen!

 

[rfisher]

Candyman 2.0 OGM LP. The sheer thought of it makes me cringe. They're good people and their technical skills are mighty but please skating gods don' let this happen!

Sorry, but if Massot doesn't get his German citizenship and Sav/Mass can't compete, I sincerely hope Candyman and Xtina rule the day. Skating Gods have a warped sense of humor anyway.

 

[Areski]

Sorry, but if Massot doesn't get his German citizenship and Sav/Mass can't compete, I sincerely hope Candyman and Xtina rule the day. Skating Gods have a warped sense of humor anyway.

You don't like Empress Wenjing Sui & Emperor Cong Han?

 

[rfisher]

You don't like Empress Wenjing Sui & Emperor Cong Han?

First, the Empress is Savchenko
Second, they're OK, but I prefer Sav/Mass and Stolbova/Klimov, but I also like the Russian kids. If I don't get Sav/Mass for the Olympics, then I want chaos to reign and Xtina to rule.