As of this moment, I am. I'm not seeing the stratospheric score difference you appear to be claiming.
The Shibutanis Thread 4: Ready for Paradise
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As of this moment, I am. I'm not seeing the stratospheric score difference you appear to be claiming.
Anyasnake
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I don't really speak spanish very well but I can understand itDo you speak spanish? cool!
They said : ¨ The program has a lot of variety and contrast of movements, power. Twizzles always to the rhythm of the music, twizzles super well choreographed, in the opportune moment, speed, power, variety, very good, very good. And what a precision of edges, cleanliness and subtlety. They have done a formidable job. ¨
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I am glad especially about that they noticed that the program has a lot of variety and contrast of movements
I'm happy they liked it too haha, I wish we had BESP commentary !Oh come on. Do you really think the top ice dance teams aren't aiming for gold? Hell, in any discipline. "Oh no, gold is too hard and unreachable; bronze'll do me just fine."
chapis
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Gala https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POv6yOv00Ec (That´s life), I love that program so much.
At the olympics they will be skating to Pérez Prado, Coldplay, Frank Sinatra and Jay-Z, they will reach the widest range audience possible.
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Medal Ceremony https://youtu.be/1LE21zIBsGA?t=638 Very cool that their mambo music was chosen in their presentation https://youtu.be/1LE21zIBsGA?t=653, usually they play the FD music. It is so unfair that they were forced to return to dressing and putting on make-up just for the ceremony. The dress of Ekaterina looks much better in close up.
At the olympics they will be skating to Pérez Prado, Coldplay, Frank Sinatra and Jay-Z, they will reach the widest range audience possible.
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Medal Ceremony https://youtu.be/1LE21zIBsGA?t=638 Very cool that their mambo music was chosen in their presentation https://youtu.be/1LE21zIBsGA?t=653, usually they play the FD music. It is so unfair that they were forced to return to dressing and putting on make-up just for the ceremony. The dress of Ekaterina looks much better in close up.
I'm sorry you feel this way but it's completely understandable. I've started to slowly withdraw from some of the threads involving ID especially after some escalation in the ice dance thread recently. I don't think I'm cut off for the cut throat fan wars. So I've now retreated to the sheltered fan threads and the non ID ones to get my figure skating fixI've always enjoyed reading your very well-informed posts, you're always trying your hardest to be objective and as an uber, it's mighty hard. Hope you'll come back soon
Yeah, ice dance can get very nasty among fans. Look at most Grishuk & Platov videos on youtube and there are a ton of nasty comments on many of them because many still haven't forgiven them for beating Torvill & Dean in 1994 and also because Zhulin had an affair with Grishuk (even though neither him nor Tatiana Navka get nearly as much vitriol). Many of them are Bourne & Kraatz ubers. I like replying to them and breaking down why B&K had no business being anywhere near G&P.
marbri
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What do you say to the T/D ubers and the Usova/Zhulin (or fidelity?) ubers?
Rukia
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Watching the actual NBC replay it's interesting because you can see the party line. Of course it was 50% Nathan Chen, but they showed the Shibutani's FD. Johnny and Tara loooved it. They gave a lot of compliments to them. I know they don't know much about dance, but it's nice to see them pushing them in their non-Chen time.
I don't usually respond to T/D ubers because their grips about G&P's 1994 free dance are very much legit since that rock'n'roll free dance was one of the most choreographically lacking programs G&P ever skated.
For U&Z ubers, I usually point out that Zhulin's affair with Navka was maybe even more instrumental to destroying U&Z's marriage. And he was even seeing Navka while Grishuk was 'waiting' for Zhulin since Grishuk got booted out of Dubova's camp due to the affair (and allegedly got beat up by Dubova's husband in the process).
aftershocks
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The Shibs know enough to filter and not pay attention to the envious 'noise' from detractors. The Shibs have a fabulous SD, and another wonderful FD which is still a work-in-progress that will steadily build in strength and nuance over the course of the season. The Shibs are right where they expect to be, and they are pacing themselves. Just as Charlie said about their FD: in this debut, the Shibs were more focused on control, precision and cleanliness, plus they've got their SD rockin on all cylinders, which is cool because it too will become even better!
aftershocks
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The party line to me seemed more about being sure to pump up Olympic faves Hanyu and Medvedeva. Sure there was a lot about Nathan, as they showed Nathan's winning sp which deserved to be shown. However, Johnny made a lot of critical comments about Nathan as part of the 'must nitpick Nathan' contingent.
It's fine, as nothing about the figure skating competitive process and rampant politics seems to faze Nathan. People forget that even despite his young age, Nathan has loads of experience skating and winning against competitors much older than him at every level of the sport over the years.IMO, NBC is apparently making sure not to over-hype Nathan too much, as they learned their lesson from the boot snafu Nathan faced at Worlds which led to his having trouble prevailing for at least a podium spot. And yet he still set records at Worlds too. In fact, Johnny had some overly critical things to say about Nathan, as did Ryan Bradley on the Olympic channel coverage. I'm fine with them tempering the over-hype of Nathan, but they are not exactly correct about the specifics of what Nathan needs to work on nor are they giving him enough credit for his clear growth and improvements since 2015. Probably they are as usual trying to show they are not being overly partisan to U.S. skaters. (I'll cross-post the above in Nathan's thread).
But yeah, I'm glad they at least showed the Shibs' FD, as they usually don't show any ice dance performances.
marbri
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IOW you add your opinions which are influenced by your biases just as the others
I don't typically read youtube comments but I've heard they can be nasty. I'm sure you of course don't fall into that category even if you feel the need to answer decades old history IOW you add your opinions which are influenced by your biases just as the others
More or less I guess. I basically agree that G&P probably shouldn't have won in 1994 because of the issues with their programs that season. But some of the vitriol they spew about G&P's skating can get pretty ridiculous. They talk about her affair with Zhulin or Grishuk's crazy days as Pasha as reasons to mark them down. But if they think G&P should've been marked down in 1994 because of the illegal separations and how there wasn't good content in that dance, that is justified and I basically agree.
With B&K ubers, I often bring up actual technical reasons why B&K should've been marked down whereas why G&P`s higher marks are justified (like how Kraatz's counters and Bourne's twizzles were not performed properly during the compulsories and the actual content in both their ODs and FDs). Most of the time they have no response for me in that regard.
I was able to see the SD and FD in real time. I was so impressed with how polished, prepared and confident the Shibs were. Of course I adore them so much and am such an uber so it's not surprising I felt that way. However, I'm just now catching up on FSU. I went to the U. S. Ice Dance thread assuming I would fine lots of kudos for their performances. VIETgrlTerifa--you're the only one I could find that commented so I can see why you're so disappointed. I started to share how upsetting that was to me but then I too remembered it was the same way after Worlds 2017--which I believe I did comment on back then. This time I decided why bother.
But please do not quit posting until Skate America (on this thread). I'm no techie and I so look forward to your opinions as well as Dobre, chapis and others. We really need you here.
Spun Silver
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This is a shame, @VIETgrlTerifa. They just set themselves up to have a great Olympic season and as their no. 1 fan with a mystical pipeline to their minds you should be part of it celebrating here and beaming your suggestions to them.
JMO. Phoeey on those who can’t appreciate them. I know it stings, esp if you consider any of those posters friends, but it’s really not personal and they probably cant help their lack of perception. Poor things. Compartmentalize and carry on - don't let it spoil the Olympic season for you! Big congrats to Maia and Alex for bringing home another gold for Team USA!!!
I was wiped out from entertaining yesterday and used what little brainpower I had left to commiserate with fellow Mirai fans about her disastrous Ros Cup. (Ugh. You think it’s hard being a Shibs fan! Let me tell you...!) I also wanted to get a better sense of the Shibs’ FD before commenting on it.
So... I dont love it like the SD but I like it a lot. For starters, there is something a little more “elite” (for lack of a better word) and confident about them right from the get go. They look Olympian, they look like winners. Their costumes are totally fab. That red is a throwing-down-the-gauntlet look for them. They seem light, fleet and completely committed, and are moving in the twinny way I’ve been wanting for them, as fluid as swimming. Choreographically, I love all the spinning and the twirls/rotating lifts in this program - they fit the themes of dreaming and paradise so well. It’s also just beautiful and ties the program together. (And thank heavens, I loved all the spinning and rotating on para, para, para so much that I completely forgot the elephants!)
As far as what it still might benefit by (besides the dang levels which I’m sure they’ll figure out):
- as people have discussed, being able to hear the lyrics better would really help, even if it means switching to a studio performance of the song.
- the shape or storyline of the program IMO needs to be sharpened a bit. The first time I watched it, I felt like it had three acts of dreaming, falling and winning/reaching paradise. The next couple times I wasnt sure I even saw those things. Thinking choreoliterally (or whatever the term is), I am not sure why Maia is spinning on her knees in paradise (even though it is a very cool move) - I felt the last part was crying out for one of those exultant lifts where she is flying (standing) on top of Alex’s knee. I would rather see her do the knee spin in the second section.
- to the end of sharpening the program, IMO the music could be improved. I was hoping the violin part would be at the end and make a more socko ending than the song itself contains. I didnt find that addition to the music very noteworthy or helpful - what did you guys think? Also, I am not sure the twizzles are placed as advantageously as they could be. If I am right about the three movements, the twizzles seem to come at a transition between falling and winning. I would rather see them more firmly in the final section to a virtuosic violin riff.
JMO of course and no doubt you guys will explain what I missed (thanks in advance).
Spun Silver
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I was just looking at the ice dance matchups in the rest of the GPs, except France which isnt posted on FSU yet. It looks to me like Maia and Alex have an excellent chance at another gold at NHK, whereas it seems C/B and H/D will have tougher fields all the way. Has this already been discussed? What do you make of it? To me it looks as if the USFS has decided the Shibs are officially US no. 1. By the medals they already are, but it was a little squeaky at Worlds....
NinjaTurtles
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In a lot of way the Shibs suffer from an outdated narrative. It’s quite common in sports. For example (from another sport), from early on in his career Tony Romo was pegged by ESPN as a choker. “ESPN says so, it must be true,” says the typical football fan. Stats did not support that narrative over time, but it never stopped. Said once and then just repeated ad nauseum -lazy opinions driven by the seed of a media comment from years ago and propelled by fandom/tribalism. When Tony retired last year, the narrative magically changed. “He carried bad teams and made them look like contenders via his immense talent. What a shame he never won a Super Bowl; he should probably be in the Hall of Fame!” Now that he was safely no longer a contender, the narrative happily shifted to something more accurate.
I think the Shibs suffer from two narratives/prejudices among skating fans that need reexamination:
I think the Shibs suffer from two narratives/prejudices among skating fans that need reexamination:
- They’re a sibling team, so they inherently can never be the ‘best’ dance team.
- They didn’t deserve their Worlds bronze in 2011. Canton is the source of all evil in Ice Dance; boring North American content that wins via politiks over RudeEuro teams.
Sylvia
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You mean Skate America.
ETA:
CBC broadcast of their FD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBkqgwWRrAo
NBC's broadcast of their FD today: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HVmbOntYW0
Free Dance (no commentary): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBOBbZZsTMg
"That's Life" exhibition gala performance (no commentary): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zeG-LBTq8Y
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Spun Silver
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Yes, I do. You understand me so well, LOL. I was talking with my Mirai fan head. I am still exhausted.You mean Skate America.
Ena Grins
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The top three teams at Worlds are always assigned to different Grand Prix events, so the Shibs wouldn't have had the tougher competition of Papadakis/Cizeron and Virtue/Moir. P/C and V/M are then at each event the Shibs are at, which is where Chock/Bates and Hubbell/Donohue are too. So I don't think it had to do with USFS deciding ahead of time that Shibs are their #1.
Spun Silver
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Got it. Thanks.
Anyasnake
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You're right, I think 1,2 and 3 at worlds basically take different GPs (I think it's mandatory, and it's not, it's fortunate that they're all from countries with a GP). V/M chooses their 2nd GP first (NHK).They have 2 weeks between GPs, it's fine to wrap it up since they already did a Senior B. P/C have the choice between Russia and China, and since Russia was the first GP, too close to Finlandia, and to wrap up their GP as fast as possible, they might have chosen China (2 weeks between GPs = done, let's move on) and this is also the 1st GP they won. If this is their strategy, it worked out well for the Shibs who didn't compete at a Senior B and have plenty of time to train between the first and last GP. And since they won here, I'm 99,9999% sure they qualify, they need a disaster for that not to happen.
This is interesting for me as the Duchesnays were viewed by some as the 'best' of their era.
Rukia
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It's a pretty common sentiment though. A number of times just this weekend I read "I just don't like sibling teams." I mean points for honesty I guess, but it's a strange requirement that they have to dance with someone not related to them.
MRani
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Just watched their That’s Life exhibition expecting it to be a carbon copy of their SD but it’s really different and even more fun to watch than when they were competing it! Without the competition constraints they really brought a whole other dimension of excitement and flair to that program. Loved it and I’m sure Olympic audiences will go crazy for it.
Incidentally, I get that same sense of unreserved fun and excitement from their SD this year. That shows a lot of growth to me, that they can hit the levels while giving themselves up to the joy of the performance. I hope they can bring that same feeling to their FD too. It’s not quite there yet but we have evidence that they can do it!
Incidentally, I get that same sense of unreserved fun and excitement from their SD this year. That shows a lot of growth to me, that they can hit the levels while giving themselves up to the joy of the performance. I hope they can bring that same feeling to their FD too. It’s not quite there yet but we have evidence that they can do it!
Strange indeed.
I also remember it was mentiond earlier in this thread about how there was a comment on youtube about how they wish Maia had another partner. Is there something about Alex that's objectionable besides the fact that he's her brother?
Spun Silver
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A few years ago people were calling for Alex to find a new partner. I guess it is a swingset for some people - Maia can only go up if Alex goes down?
Rukia
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I for one appreciate the eye candy-factor that Alex brings. But not everyone has my good taste.
Anyasnake
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I doI for one appreciate the eye candy-factor that Alex brings. But not everyone has my good taste.
. And he is going to have a hard time in Korea because of that (not in skating but outside of the rink). He'll get noticed and is going to get contracts to become a Kpop idol
MRani
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I think the Shibs are equally talented and each brings something invaluable to the partnership. Alex is amazing not only for his technical skills but his expressiveness. In their SD I almost want to watch him more than Maia because he really exudes this infectious excitement I can’t get enough of. In the FD Maia is the focus and she brings not only beautiful shapes and positions but also a lovely connection to the music and audience.
We can speculate but who knows if either would be as good with another partner as they are with each other? I think they bring out the best in each other and their bond is a beautiful thing to see on the ice. There’s enough room in ice dance for many different kinds of relationships to be shown, not just romantic ones.
We can speculate but who knows if either would be as good with another partner as they are with each other? I think they bring out the best in each other and their bond is a beautiful thing to see on the ice. There’s enough room in ice dance for many different kinds of relationships to be shown, not just romantic ones.
NinjaTurtles
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A couple of years ago people were calling for Cizeron to get a new partner.
