U.S. Men in 2017 - articles & latest news

[Lanie]

I find myself looking at Nathan's SP and enjoying it on its face, but what was said here about it being sort of - skating by numbers, look, I can do something different, instead of really getting into the music is bothersome. It's only September but the feel of the program is just: Nathan showing us "look I can do hip and cool and modern too" and because he doesn't seem into it, it falls totally flat. The music is just there. It doesn't mean anything. It's like - they chose the choreography and the music and Nathan is trying to slot himself, a square peg, into a round hole. I dunno I'm rambling.

I love Jason but I hate his SP. Maybe because I hate the Hamilton music? But it just seems like he can do so, so much better and the song choice doesn't seem to lend itself well to skating. I was listening more to the lyrics than paying attention to his skating.

Max has improved so much and despite hating his music (this is a theme isn't it, ugh) I find he did pretty well. He seems to have a lot more confidence in him. And as someone who's not been too impressed with him in the past I find he works better with this music than Nathan does with his.

ETA for an honorable mention to Firus and Dolensky, I like these guys so much.

 

[jlai]

Oh, for fcuk's sake, this again. Every fcuking year.

And complaints about Max happen every competition. And every other page in the US men's thread. We Max "haters" endure a lot more than you think.

The thing is I like Max. But no matter how much I try to be nice about him, I'm obviously not nice enough for the ubers. I might as well not be nice and be as mean as I can about Max.

Show me where I have ever said that Max is a 90 PCS skater. I've never said that. I've never said that because it's not true. Max isn't a 90 PCS skater. But neither is Chen. The only US men who are true 90 PCS skaters are Joshua and Jason. No-one else. But PCS has been fudged and mistreated.

If Jason is worthy of 90, then Max is not undermarked in PCS. In fact, he would be overmarked. In fact, that's my point, even when Max is overmarked, it's not good enough for the ubers. Then give him a 90 and be done with it.

And PCS is not set and stone, you cannot assign it to a person. You assign it to every performance.

 

[misskarne]

The thing is I like Max. But no matter how much I try to be nice about him, I'm obviously not nice enough for the ubers. I might as well not be nice and be as mean as I can about Max.

I don't care if you don't like him or you do. Just do him the respect of actually listening to him. Every single year we get this "people choose music for Max" and it's like no, they don't, don't you listen at all? Every season Max has to explain, again, and again, and again, that he is the one who chooses. It's like it mortally offends people that Max might have that capacity.

If Jason is worthy of 90, then Max is not undermarked in PCS. In fact, he would be overmarked. In fact, that's my point, even when Max is overmarked, it's not good enough for the ubers. Then give him a 90 and be done with it.

Sure, that would be how it'd go in a perfect world - except it's not. Except the US Nationals judges gave out 91 PCS to an FS that was nothing more than skate-skate-jump, simply because of the number of quads, after effectively telling Max for years that it's not all about the quads.

 

[jlai]

I find myself looking at Nathan's SP and enjoying it on its face, but what was said here about it being sort of - skating by numbers, look, I can do something different, instead of really getting into the music is bothersome. It's only September but the feel of the program is just: Nathan showing us "look I can do hip and cool and modern too" and because he doesn't seem into it, it falls totally flat. The music is just there. It doesn't mean anything. It's like - they chose the choreography and the music and Nathan is trying to slot himself, a square peg, into a round hole. I dunno I'm rambling.

Aren't we over analyzing much? This is just the first outing of a program. If he isn't into it yet then ding Nathan on interpretation. If the choreography is uncool, ding him on choreography. If he is unsure, ding him on performance exec. But the program deserves high transition.

But next performance each skater's interpretation level can change. I don't like how some skaters are high pcs skaters and some not. Even Chan gets an off day and should get below 90 pcs and Max can have an awesome day and rock his program.

 

[jlai]

I don't care if you don't like him or you do. Just do him the respect of actually listening to him. Every single year we get this "people choose music for Max" and it's like no, they don't, don't you listen at all? Every season Max has to explain, again, and again, and again, that he is the one who chooses. It's like it mortally offends people that Max might have that capacity.



Sure, that would be how it'd go in a perfect world - except it's not. Except the US Nationals judges gave out 91 PCS to an FS that was nothing more than skate-skate-jump, simply because of the number of quads, after effectively telling Max for years that it's not all about the quads.

Or maybe I said it the way I said it (that program is picked for him so as to not assign blame on Max) knowing you take offense no matter what I said, which is exactly what happens?

Give up on the 91 pcs already. I don't remember Max ubers complaining when he gets higher ps than he should

 

[Tavi]

Aren't we over analyzing much? This is just the first outing of a program. If he isn't into it yet then ding Nathan on interpretation. If the choreography is uncool, ding him on choreography. If he is unsure, ding him on performance exec. But the program deserves high transition.

But next performance each skater's interpretation level can change. I don't like how some skaters are high pcs skaters and some not. Even Chan gets an off day and should get below 90 pcs and Max can have an awesome day and rock his program.

Over analyzing? Isn't that kind of the raison d'être of this forum? Seriously, I agree that people grow into programs, but I don't see why that means it's not okay to respond to where the skater / program are at a particular moment in time, even a first outing. I mean theoretically, that's what a competition is supposed to be about. I don't think anyone particularly said Nathan deserved lower transitions. But for performance and interpretation he got seven marks of 9.25 and one 9.50, and after this comp is over, his new official PB will be 44.40. I simply don't think this performance, on this day, deserved those scores. JMO.

 

[jlai]

But for performance and interpretation he got seven marks of 9.25 and one 9.50, and after this comp is over, his new official PB will be 44.40. I simply don't think this performance, on this day, deserved those scores. JMO.

Where did you get individual marks? I only see the average for each category.
Anyway, I said all along that the other PCS skaters (if I'm allowed to say that much) should be closer to Nathan. Since this is such a small competition, to me whether Nathan gets 6.5 or 9.5 is not as important as what he scores compared to his rivals. In a bigger competition, the pcs will be more sane (esp with Hanyu and Chan there). We all say PCS is absolute scoring but in reality, only the relative scoring (in relation to other competitors) matters.

 

[Tavi]

Where did you get individual marks? I only see the average for each category.
Anyway, I said all along that the other PCS skaters (if I'm allowed to say that much) should be closer to Nathan. Since this is such a small competition, to me whether Nathan gets 6.5 or 9.5 is not as important as what he scores compared to his rivals. In a bigger competition, the pcs will be more sane (esp with Hanyu and Chan there). We all say PCS is absolute scoring but in reality, only the relative scoring (in relation to other competitors) matters.

Courtesy of the tireless Doris at Golden Skate:

http://www.usfigureskating.org/leaderboard/results/2017/26189/results.html

Click on judge detail scores at the top for the protocol.

I would agree with you about meaningless scoring but Nathan's 44+ PCS is going to be a new PB.

Anyway. I really like the music!

 

[FSfan107]

I didn't see the show. I also didn't pay attention to lyrics in general. I'd say unless this is a song people really resonate with, (like "Music of the Night"), avoid lyrics all together.

Yeah I haven't seen the show and I don't know much about Hamilton other than I know a lot of people love it. I don't like the music and find it a bit distracting, but Jason was still entertaining to watch.

 

[Willin]

@misskarne ITA - I want a Yorktown Program (Maybe from Max? I think he could do a program about a battle well). It just feels like a much better song to skate to - it builds well, it has a simple story, and it's more musical throughout.

@aftershocks I think my point about being generic on the last two jumping passes/between spins is because he uses the generic flowy skating ballet arms. I love the sharp movements on the opening and the step sequence (that chasse in the 3A transition is great) - but it seems very much contemporary dance rather than ballet. The music is also very jazzy/blues/soul with sharp backing beats making ballet arms seem very off. I love the program minus those transitions, and it will certainly be a wonderful breath of fresh air compared to the other men's SPs.

 

[misskarne]

@misskarne ITA - I want a Yorktown Program (Maybe from Max? I think he could do a program about a battle well). It just feels like a much better song to skate to - it builds well, it has a simple story, and it's more musical throughout.

Oooooooo, Max and Yorktown I hadn't thought of yet. Actually I was listening to it in my car and I think the best song for Jason from the musical would be What'd I Miss? It's super jazzy and fun and right up Jason's alley.

 

[VGThuy]

Oooooooo, Max and Yorktown I hadn't thought of yet. Actually I was listening to it in my car and I think the best song for Jason from the musical would be What'd I Miss? It's super jazzy and fun and right up Jason's alley.

If I was casting with current skaters, I do think Jason would make a great Alexander Hamilton and Max would make a great Aaron Burr. I didn't think about it until Willin mentioned Yorktown for Max.

 

[MAXSwagg]

Where did you get individual marks? I only see the average for each category.
Anyway, I said all along that the other PCS skaters (if I'm allowed to say that much) should be closer to Nathan. Since this is such a small competition, to me whether Nathan gets 6.5 or 9.5 is not as important as what he scores compared to his rivals. In a bigger competition, the pcs will be more sane (esp with Hanyu and Chan there). We all say PCS is absolute scoring but in reality, only the relative scoring (in relation to other competitors) matters.

This did not happen at Four Continents...

 

[misskarne]

If I was casting with current skaters, I do think Jason would make a great Alexander Hamilton and Max would make a great Aaron Burr. I didn't think about it until Willin mentioned Yorktown for Max.

I actually cast them just the same way. The problem with the other characters is that if we're casting Hamilton on Ice are we double-casting like the musical?

 

[VGThuy]

I actually cast them just the same way. The problem with the other characters is that if we're casting Hamilton on Ice are we double-casting like the musical?

I forgot, is there an authorial reason why some characters are doubled? Sometimes playwrights intentionally double cast to make some sort of statement.

 

[Willin]

@VIETgrlTerifa @misskarne I'd watch that.
Jeremy Abbott as George Washington maybe? Sean Rabbit also has to be in there somewhere - he's a great performer.

 

[VGThuy]

Nathan Chen's LP to Mao's Last Dancer:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x60x0zw

 

[Pretty Vegas]

Nathan Chen's LP to Mao's Last Dancer:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x60x0zw

And The Rite of Spring.

 

[VGThuy]

And The Rite of Spring.

I know, I'm so pumped about that! I didn't list it separately because Rite of Spring is in the film's soundtrack but I really wanted to so I'm glad you did.

 

[misskarne]

I forgot, is there an authorial reason why some characters are doubled? Sometimes playwrights intentionally double cast to make some sort of statement.

Yeah, it's intentional, it gives lots of extra meaning. (I just have a few minor issues with the Laurens/Phillip double cast). So the double casts are Lafayette/Jefferson, Mulligan/Madison, Laurens/Phillip and Peggy/Maria. (We're digressing, but it's fun.)

@VIETgrlTerifa @misskarne I'd watch that.
Jeremy Abbott as George Washington maybe? Sean Rabbit also has to be in there somewhere - he's a great performer.

Maybe. Washington is supposed to be tall, so Jeremy might work for that.

 

[VGThuy]

Yeah, it's intentional, it gives lots of extra meaning. (I just have a few minor issues with the Laurens/Phillip double cast). So the double casts are Lafayette/Jefferson, Mulligan/Madison, Laurens/Phillip and Peggy/Maria. (We're digressing, but it's fun.)



Maybe. Washington is supposed to be tall, so Jeremy might work for that.

Maybe we should make a new thread talking about casting skaters in musicals/plays on ice.

 

[Rukia]

Nathan Chen's LP to Mao's Last Dancer:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x60x0zw

I can't wait to see how this progresses this season

 

[Bellanca]

Nice night for the American men and I just love me some Sean Rabbitt! Makes my day!

 

[olympic]

Nathan Chen's LP to Mao's Last Dancer:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x60x0zw

OMG. First of all. Thank you. I was scouring Youtube. Should've known it could've been on Dailymotion.

Nathan's skating is improved over last year including his spins, but the talk of this competition will be his 4L. He theoretically could do up to 7 quads. It might not happen but it's out there.

ETA - Is there anything on Max out there?

 

[misskarne]

ETA - Is there anything on Max out there?

Haven't seen any uploads yet, still waiting on IN (which has the men's medal ceremony up but not the men's FS yet). I'm extremely satisfied with a 261 in September, though, and an 80 PCS free. If he can keep that up...

At least the awards ceremony is adorable watching And also, I can say I really, really like Max's FS costume. Nathan's is nice too.

 

[cheremary]

Here's Max's program: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x60wz9q

 

[Lanie]

I liked Nathan's LP more than the SP in that I feel it has more potential but is still quad-quad-quad, must spin here... Footwork sequence is great! Did anyone else feel the music was a bit disjointed? Haven't seen anyone else yet as I have never bothered with an IN sub due to all the issues they have.

Kid could be one of the all time greats, that's for sure.

 

[misskarne]

Here's Max's program: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x60wz9q

Oh, thanks so much! It's so great! And omg his faaaaaaaaaaace right after he lands the third quad it just lights up!

Both his step sequences this season are so badass, I love it. His ChSq is pretty good in this one too. Go Max go! Go Max go!

(Now let's talk about the ending edit on that music. That's a nope.)

 

[VGThuy]

Max almost has the same edit as Akiko Suzuki. I think he should adopt her music ending as well as I think it'll give him a real moment to breathe and take in a really good performance before his final pose and the crowd can really soak it in.

 

[A.H.Black]

Nathan's free program is available on Icenetwork right now without a subscription http://web.icenetwork.com/video/v1834948083 Don't know how long it will be up.

Just got home. What a fun night of skating. Best I've had for a long time (outside of Nationals).