Shibutanis thread 3: Evolution

[Dobre]

Continue . . .

 

[VGThuy]

Hey Dobre, could you change the subtitle to "Evolution"? It'd be nice to have a title to reflect this current season and it seemed to be the title people in the previous thread liked the most.

 

[Dobre]

Sorry, guys. I'm afraid I wasn't caught up on the discussion & missed the conversation at the end of the last thread. Yes, I'll write in Evolution for the moment. But feel free to continue the discussion about thread title options below if anyone would like a different title.

Personally, I still like "Lights will guide you home" because I feel like "home" is Korea.

 

[VGThuy]

So the "Rhumba" will be a major challenge for the Shibs next season. What direction would you think the Shibs should go in to best tackle the Latin rhythm?

 

[Spun Silver]

I think cool, suave, hip and glamorous is working for them. So they can rhumba that.

 

[gk_891]

It'll be a challenge for them to portray sensual intimacy which is what the rhumba is about. But like Spun Silver said above, they can make it work for them albeit in a different way than what P&C or V&M would do. I'm really looking forward to what all 3 teams will come up with next season.

 

[sap5]

I don't think the actual rhumba ice dance pattern is all that sensual anyway, so that shouldn't be an issue. The Shibs could easily combine it with another Latin rhythm that is more about fun and general partying and there wouldn't be an issue at all.

 

[gk_891]

I don't think the actual rhumba ice dance pattern is all that sensual anyway, so that shouldn't be an issue. The Shibs could easily combine it with another Latin rhythm that is more about fun and general partying and there wouldn't be an issue at all.

Oh that's right. Sorry, my lack of knowledge in current ice dance is showing. I was thinking the theme of the SD was going to be a rhumba like the OD was in 1994. I forgot that the format of the SD is quite a bit different.

 

[marbri]

From 2012:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSuTE5R57B4

 

[VGThuy]

Finally, someone identifies the last piece of the Shibs' FD. @skatefan figured out that it was from The Truman Show soundtrack by Phillip Glass:

The final, faster section, I'm sure I recognised from The Truman Show soundtrack ... will have to dig out my CD

ETA Philip Glass, Truman Sleeps - piano piece

So they went went another minimalist piece but Alex did the arrangement himself, which made the piece go from a piano piece to a fully orchestrated one. I'm very impressed.

 

[semogal]

From 2012:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSuTE5R57B4

I try to block the memory of that season's SD from my memory. I really wish that another rhythm had been chosen for the Olympic year. In watching that video, all I could think was "take her waist Alex, take her waist"...because he came very close to grabbing her breast several times

 

[semogal]

On another note, congrats to them on their bronze medal at the GPF. Making that podium is an accomplishment!! Their FD just keeps getting better. From a snippet in conversation from the K&C it sounded to me like they are thinking about some tweeks.

 

[VGThuy]

Was the original and less entertaining version of that SD more authentic?

 

[VGThuy]

On another note, congrats to them on their bronze medal at the GPF. Making that podium is an accomplishment!! Their FD just keeps getting better. From a snippet in conversation from the K&C it sounded to me like they are thinking about some tweeks.

Maybe we'll get a Skate Canada "Fix You" like makeover at Nationals.

 

[suki]

I try to block the memory of that season's SD from my memory. I really wish that another rhythm had been chosen for the Olympic year. In watching that video, all I could think was "take her waist Alex, take her waist"...because he came very close to grabbing her breast several times

They are far different skaters than they were in 2012. Look at how they approached their dances this year, consulting experts in the genre, selecting the music, even arranging it. I have the utmost faith that the Shibs are going to put together a kickass Latin dance next year even if they can't do the sultry, sexy usual stuff that all the others will be doing.

P.S. My head is throbbing from the V/M and P/C ubers who were out in full force this morning for the GPF free dance. There is no known antedote.

 

[VGThuy]

At the beginning of last season, the Shibs were trying to maintain their position, find their spark, and see if there was any way they could improve their status from just being a "buffer" team that separated the top tier from the lower tier where they were consistently placing 6th or 5th behind the top teams and new teams that were generating excitement. They also looked like they were going to be dropped by the judges at any moment despite all the qualities that pushed them up so quickly in the first place.

Then, they fought hard and here we are a year and a half later and they are among the top three ice dance teams, with one of the three being return Olympic champions. Right now, one can argue that they acting as a buffer between the top two and the rest of the field, but the fact that the Shibs lost the silver by less of a differential here than at 2016 Worlds to the same team is a small victory for them. People aren't really considering them to be in the same conversation as P/C and V/M, but the Shibs are often underestimated and underrated and I hope the Shibs continue this upward trajectory and give us even better performances and receive even better scores.

 

[Bellanca]

the Shibs are often underestimated and underrated and I hope the Shibs continue this upward trajectory and give us even better performances and receive even better scores.

I agree.

Maia and Alex have become such well-rounded, beautiful ice dancers. Their posture etc. is so striking on the ice. Always want the best for them!

 

[kittyjake5]

Congrats to the Shibs on winning the Bronze Medal, well done! Off to watch the videos

 

[Laura4]

That FD is just a thing of beauty to me. Everything about it...the music, the costumes, the way they are skating this season is just perfection. A little fine tuning may be all that's needed, although to my eye, they've already got the goods to be serious contenders for gold at World's.

 

[VGThuy]

That FD is just a thing of beauty to me. Everything about it...the music, the costumes, the way they are skating this season is just perfection. A little fine tuning may be all that's needed, although to my eye, they've already got the goods to be serious contenders for gold at World's.

Maybe they need to add a third piece to bridge "Spiegel im Spiegel" and the second piece. It seems that although many people love this FD others are bored by it. They probably need a bit more variation in the music to keep other people's attention who need histrionics and whatnot to watch ice dance. They are also getting more criticism this season which is a sign that they've moved on up in the ice dance hierarchy so people are trying to find reasons to take them down a peg or two.

 

[semogal]

They are far different skaters than they were in 2012. Look at how they approached their dances this year, consulting experts in the genre, selecting the music, even arranging it. I have the utmost faith that the Shibs are going to put together a kickass Latin dance next year even if they can't do the sultry, sexy usual stuff that all the others will be doing.

P.S. My head is throbbing from the V/M and P/C ubers who were out in full force this morning for the GPF free dance. There is no known antedote.

I guess I should clarify, I have no beef with the Shibs' SD, I just didn't care for most of the routines that year. When I go back and revisit previous events I skip right over everyone's SD from 2012 (even my beloved Meryl and Charlie)

 

[arakwafan2006]

As a shibs fan, my worry is how even as a fan I don't take them serious as a threat to the French or the Canadians. I think that Maia and Alex are superb Dancers and immaculately trained. That free dance needs to be revved up a bit. It still seems safe to me. I want them skating out their skin with emotion. I still see some same ol same ol Zueva choreography that can be touched up. They are without a doubt USA's #1 team. I'd like them to perform well enough to challenge everyone else. They are SO damn capable.

 

[LilJen]

So the "Rhumba" will be a major challenge for the Shibs next season. What direction would you think the Shibs should go in to best tackle the Latin rhythm?

Wait, the ISU has already chosen rhumba AGAIN?? Come on, there are so many other CDs out there to choose from!

I love their FD. I don't think it needs to be revved up or added. It's just about pure skating.

 

[Dobre]

I love the first half of the free program, but the music backs off after the twizzle sequence, then appears to build right at the end & cuts off. (The final lift is recycled and unexciting, and the ending position is too similar to last season). I would like a really eye-catching lift at the end, something that highlights how together they are (or preferably to see the music build earlier and continue long enough for us to really enjoy that portion of the program). And to see a more striking final position. I don't need a tacked on Four Seasons or Polvitsian dances build up, but I don't like feeling left wanting more--as though the music has been severed mid-stride.

I LOVE the classic lines however. The opening position. How well the elements flow one to the next. Always, always the program seems to be heading somewhere. I just want to feel--at the end--as though I have truly gotten there.

I feel like all three of the top FDs this season have exactly the same problem. Fade away endings & less satisfying second halves.

I think the Shibs could make a real impact if they improve the second half. (If they don't, someone else likely will). My thoughts on how to do that are just my thoughts. Any real improvement has to come from them. I find that with the creative process, having someone identify a weakness is often helpful. But the solution has to come from me.

 

[VGThuy]

I agree. I actually love it when the second half starts, but the problem is that I feel like the program ends when it's just getting started. Although I love the way the stationary lift is timed, I do think maybe they should shorten the "Spiegel im Spiegel" part and expand the second half or add a middle piece to bridge the music and give a more satisfying ending. Sad to say, but they have to make it more accessible to the masses because they want to feel emotion and many are having a hard time connecting with the FD as it is now.

I like the concept of the final lift, but I do think it needs a much stronger and clear position to make more of a statement. I also think their ending twizzle sequence is good but it can be a lot better. Maybe replace it with a choreographed spin which will allow them to keep the ending pose that I love or do more interesting twizzle positions with different shapes and such.

I did see improvement at the GPF. They skated a lot faster there, even a poster who watched it live and didn't care for their lack of speed in the SD noted how much better they were in the FD. I think they're pretty disappointed in their score and placement even though they would have LOVED to have won bronze last season where both V/M and P/C didn't compete. To me, their disappointment and the way Alex and Maia were already going on about improvements to be made in the KnC with Marina and Massimo show that they are very motivated to improve and how they see themselves as contenders for the gold and being on V/M and P/C's level despite all the talk about how it's really a V/M v. P/C landscape and that the Shibs aren't on the same level and will never be. I'm very glad that they don't see it that way at all and will work hard to surprise the ice dance world and fandom, who have always underrated and undervalued their abilities. Champions are often people who the so-called knowledgeable types tend to overlook because of lack of imagination on how an athlete can improve.

I would also like for them to work with Hok and Aye more on the hip hop because the hip hop dancing can be a lot looser and punchier and be more authentic. They should also be a lot slinkier with their blues movement. They have a lot of off-ice work to do to get the movement just right and I think they can do it. They also need to cover more ice in the pattern and partial and skate with more conviction. People will keep harping on those two things and that is what will continue to keep them behind V/M and P/C if all three teams hit all of their levels and skate well in the SD.

That said, I'm looking forward to see how both of their programs progress because I feel like they're not close to peaking yet, which is great because I found "Fix You" to have peaked so early that they sort of lost the element of surprise that they had at Skate Canada to Nationals by the time Worlds hit.

Anyway, all of these things that they need to focus on are great things to build on (solid concrete goals which do a lot to help prepare an athlete) in the run up to Pyeongchang. I hope Marina can work the same magic for the Shibs that she did for V/M in their lead up to Vancouver. I say V/M because their current trajectory seems to mirror V/M path to Vancouver more than the D/W path to Sochi.

 

[semogal]

I know it is hard to make magic two years in a row, but I miss that goosebump moment that their Coldplay FD gives me when they start the twizzles. They need a moment in this year's dance that grabs the audience's heart. If they can create that moment this dance will move from good to great.

 

[Spun Silver]

This is not really a propos, but it just came to my mind that I would love to see them do a program on the theme/with the imagery of flying. It could even be a sad/emotional program about trying to fly and failing. (But not the Beatles with the tweetie birds!!) I have no idea what the music could be.

I share a lot of the views expressed in the last few posts. They look so good and confident this year but their programs are not magical. They almost seem overthought. Fix You had this wonderful freedom and the music was so great. Coppelia was a total contrast. This year's two programs resemble each other more, for all their differences. (Both 20th C music, both wearing black/blue-black, both more cool than hot emotionally....). It would be better if each were pushed more in its own direction, IMO. Even a costume color switch in the FD -- like a true purple as opposed to a dark purple that reads as black, or white for that matter -- would help.

 

[justtojoke]

https://www.instagram.com/p/BN4zAN4jrmB/ Maia and Eric Radford having fun with the Quickstep compulsory

 

[VGThuy]

https://www.instagram.com/p/BN4zAN4jrmB/ Maia and Eric Radford having fun with the Quickstep compulsory

Nice glimpse of what Maia would look like with another partner just for the contrast with her and Alex.

 

[Bellanca]

It is all about V&M and P&C slugging it out for the foreseeable future. I admire and cheer for both P&C and the Shibs, BUT, because I am underdog inclined, I really think that the Shibs could throw a serious wrench into the works. Dark horse potential is a beautiful thing -- Beeeaaauuutiful!!!! Go! Shibs! GO!!!!