Grammar question

[Susan1]

I have always wondered why they use 'an' before historic. It just seems wrong because 'H' is not a vowel.

Thank you!!! Exactly!!!! And it's not even a vowel sound. You pronounce the hard H. (I haven't even read the other comments yet.............)

 

[Susan1]

Another one that bothers me, especially in written form: the placement of "only" in a sentence.

"He only landed one quad in his program." Drives me nuts!
"He landed only one quad in his program." Much better.

Yeah, first sentence would grammatically mean that the quad was the only thing he landed. But, even picky me figures that we know that's not what it meant. Context, I guess?

 

[Susan1]

ETA: My pet peeve is "Just between you and I." Or really, any misuse of I, as in "You are getting a Christmas gift from my husband and I." Grrrrrrrrrrr.

Somehow, over the last 50 years, kids must have been taught it's grammatically incorrect to use the word "me" EVER. (In general, the way I would teach it is - it's "I" before the verb and "me" after the verb? Professors???? ) Which brings me to (I love this thread!!!!) "myself". "If you have any questions, please call John or myself." Double Grrrrr!!!

 

[Susan1]

I am not only amateur, i am a foreigner and only playing with English.

- "Badly done, Emma!" (Mr. Knightly, Jane Austen, "Emma")

#1. Good luck!!!! You can see how much FUN it is for those who have been speaking it all our lives.

#2. That makes sense because it is an adverb describing how something was done. "Feel" is a passive (???? - I don't remember the techie term) verb. "Feeling badly" makes me think that something might be wrong with your fingertips!!!!! You wouldn't say "Your hair looks badly."

(I have always had a mental block on punctuation and quotation marks, so anyone please feel free to correct me as necessary.......)

 

[skatingfan5]

Somehow, over the last 50 years, kids must have been taught it's grammatically incorrect to use the word "me" EVER. (In general, the way I would teach it is - it's "I" before the verb and "me" after the verb? Professors???? ) Which brings me to (I love this thread!!!!) "myself". "If you have any questions, please call John or myself." Double Grrrrr!!!

In her memoir "Between You and Me: Confessions of a Comma Queen," Mary Norris expounds on her views about why so many seem to think that "I" should be used when "me" is the correct pronoun. From an NPR review of her book:

"My fondest hope is that just from looking at the title you will learn to say fearlessly 'between you and me' (not 'I') whether or not you actually buy the book and penetrate to the innards of the objective case," she writes.

Saying "between you and I" is an error that comes from trying to sound refined and from "putting another person first." Norris explains that if people weren't "so f——— polite, if they occasionally put themselves first, they would know they had it wrong. No one would begin a confidence with 'Between I and you.'"

 

[ItalianFan]

Another one that bothers me, especially in written form: the placement of "only" in a sentence.

"He only landed one quad in his program." Drives me nuts!
"He landed only one quad in his program." Much better.

I feel there is a difference in nuance between the two imo. The first sentence has a critical tone to it. he ONLY landed one quad. The 2nd is a statement of fact without the critical "opinion" of the speaker.
thanks for the clarification of wellness, didn't know it was an antique expression, recently resuscitated!

 

[Skittl1321]

Thought those in this thread might like this?

A friend recently posted on facebook "Can you fill in the blank?" Followed by this:
"He drives ___ fast. (to, too, or two?)"

My husband posted "Is this a trick question? It seems like it should be too, but what if he is driving so that he doesn't have to eat?" He later came up with a justification for two as well. Apparently that involved "he" driving two (oxen) at a high rate of speed.

 

[Prancer]

Somehow, over the last 50 years, kids must have been taught it's grammatically incorrect to use the word "me" EVER. (In general, the way I would teach it is - it's "I" before the verb and "me" after the verb? Professors???? )

I teach that when in doubt, there are two ways to test the usage--either remove the other party or parties and see what is left (You will get a Christmas gift from [my husband and] me) or use a plural form (we=you and I, us=you and me--so "Just between us" not "Just between we.").

For myself, I teach them that the word is always self-referential and so should not be used in a sentence without the word "I." I gave myself a pat on the back, I went to the movies by myself, I hurt myself yesterday, I myself would not do that, etc. The "remove the other party or parties" method works well with this one, too--Please contact [my husband or] myself .

In general, I avoid using terms for parts of speech when I talk about grammar because a lot of students don't really know the parts of speech well. Even I sometimes have a hard time with adverbs (described by my first linguistics professor as "the trash can of English usage, where we throw anything that doesn't fit elsewhere") and remembering some of the more obscure parts of speech. For me, the purpose of grammar is to communicate ideas effectively, so I try to focus more on practical reasons for saying things a certain way rather than teaching rules. Rules often actually aren't rules, no matter what people were taught in middle school English classes.

 

[DaveRocks]

But it depends on what you mean (although everyone here always means the latter) .

I think both are fine, actually. There is a slight difference in terms of inference. The first suggests that multiple quads were attempted, but only one was landed. to the skater's detriment. The second is more just a statement and less a judgement. It could easily read 'He landed only quad in his program, but also landed two triple axels and a 3-3-2 sequence'.

That's my interpretation, in any case.

I feel there is a difference in nuance between the two imo. The first sentence has a critical tone to it. he ONLY landed one quad. The 2nd is a statement of fact without the critical "opinion" of the speaker.

As Prancer alluded to, people usually mean the latter, but write the former. That's what I was getting at. It's not a big deal, but for some reason it's been on my radar lately, so I notice it all the time. Bah!

 

[Prancer]

As Prancer alluded to, people usually mean the latter, but write the former. That's what I was getting at. It's not a big deal, but for some reason it's been on my radar lately, so I notice it all the time. Bah!

Well, for what it's worth, I think you are correct--the first sentence means one thing and the second another. Neither expresses a judgment as far as I can see; both are statements of fact. The difference is in the fact being stated, not in what is implied.

Another pet peeve of mine--one implies when one states, infers when one reads or listens.

 

[skatingfan5]

Another pet peeve of mine--one implies when one states, infers when one reads or listens.

That's another one of mine, too.

He: What did you mean to infer by that remark?
Me: Why nothing, nothing at all! What did you?

 

[PeterG]

'An hIstoric' is one my pet peeves. There is an 'h' in the word history. The word is not 'istory'.

But I fink it is, Guv'nuh!

 

[Susan1]

In general, I avoid using terms for parts of speech when I talk about grammar because a lot of students don't really know the parts of speech well. Even I sometimes have a hard time with adverbs

"An adverb modifies a verb, adjective or other adverb". Ouch - Catholic school is pecking at my brain. I was probably one of the very few who ever went through those doors who did not groan when it was time to diagram sentences.

There was a poem on the parts of speech? A noun is a person, place or thing......(something, something, something rhymed......) Guess I better go look it up. Maybe it was Schoolhouse Rock.

 

[DaveRocks]

There was a poem on the parts of speech? A noun is a person, place or thing......(something, something, something rhymed......) Guess I better go look it up. Maybe it was Schoolhouse Rock.

My 7th grade English teacher made us memorize: "A noun is a person, place or thing, unseen thing or quality." That has stuck with me to this day.

 

[Susan1]

"An adverb modifies a verb, adjective or other adverb". Ouch - Catholic school is pecking at my brain. I was probably one of the very few who ever went through those doors who did not groan when it was time to diagram sentences.

There was a poem on the parts of speech? A noun is a person, place or thing......(something, something, something rhymed......) Guess I better go look it up. Maybe it was Schoolhouse Rock.

Ta-da...........

(edited to remove image!!!!!)

 

[Prancer]

Um, please don't include images in posts. It sucks up a lot of bandwidth and is nearly always a copyright violation.

"An adverb modifies a verb, adjective or other adverb".

Yes, I've heard the definition of an adverb once or twice. But then you have prepositional phrases that are adverbs as well as being prepositional phrases. And adverbs that are also adjectives and connectives. And let's not forget conjunctive adverbs, which don't modify anything at all that I can see, but are still classed as adverbs.

 

[Artemis@BC]

Another one that bothers me, especially in written form: the placement of "only" in a sentence.

"He only landed one quad in his program." Drives me nuts!
"He landed only one quad in his program." Much better.

I feel there is a difference in nuance between the two imo. The first sentence has a critical tone to it. he ONLY landed one quad. The 2nd is a statement of fact
without the critical "opinion" of the speaker.

I agree that either could be correct, with subtle differences.

Reminds me of that old word puzzle, where placement of the word "only" in the sentence "He said he loved her." can have 6 different meanings:

Only he said he loved her. (he's the only one who said it)
He only said he loved her. (said it, but didn't necessarily mean it -- or didn't demonstrate it)
He said only he loved her. (and no others do)
etc.

 

[Susan1]

Um, please don't include images in posts. It sucks up a lot of bandwidth and is nearly always a copyright violation.

Gosh, sorry, I didn't think!!!! I did get it off images. Never again!!!!

I deleted it.

 

[just tuned in]

Every time my husband hears someone say, "Hopefully, something-or-other will happen," he replies, "And, hopelessly, it won't."

 

[nlloyd]

Yes, I've heard the definition of an adverb once or twice. But then you have prepositional phrases that are adverbs as well as being prepositional phrases. And adverbs that are also adjectives and connectives. And let's not forget conjunctive adverbs, which don't modify anything at all that I can see, but are still classed as adverbs.

Talking about words jumping grammatical categories, there is also the case of gerunds and the use of the possessive pronoun. I was always taught that, "Your taking first place is encouraging to me" was correct. The use of "you" instead of "your" was not. However, since moving to North America I have been told that either is correct and even that "your" sounds pretentious.

 

[gkelly]

What drives me crazy at work is scientists writing in passive voice using "using" as if it were a preposition. Results in many dangling participles/sentences with ludicrous meanings if interpreted literally.

 

[Susan1]

Yes, I've heard the definition of an adverb once or twice. But then you have prepositional phrases that are adverbs as well as being prepositional phrases. And adverbs that are also adjectives and connectives. And let's not forget conjunctive adverbs, which don't modify anything at all that I can see, but are still classed as adverbs.

I know! It's just that those exact words rolled across my brain like I was reading them out of a book! The rest of it just gives me a headache!

 

[Skittl1321]

Today I learned that "Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo." is a grammatically correct sentence in English.

 

[antmanb]

Is there an exploding-head emoticon anywhere?

 

[nlloyd]

I know! It's just that those exact words rolled across my brain like I was reading them out of a book! The rest of it just gives me a headache!

Oops, the words you quoted were Prancer's, not mine.

 

[Susan1]

Oops, the words you quoted were Prancer's, not mine.

o.k. oops - I thought I replied to her post replying to my post? Never mind!!!!

 

[gkelly]

Have you ever encountered the word "defected" being used to mean "defective" or "possessing a defect"?

 

[Artemis@BC]

Have you ever encountered the word "defected" being used to mean "defective" or "possessing a defect"?

No. That's just wrong. It sounds like a malapropism -- someone either misheard "defective," or confused the verb meaning of "defect" with its noun meaning.

 

[Deleted member 19433]

I saw this headline today: "CNN’s President Had Some VERY Choice Words For Trump’s Attempt To Extort $5 Million"

All I could think of was this http://knowyourmeme.com/photos/746779-doge

While "choice" can be an adjective and the use with "very" might not technically be incorrect, it certainly sounded strange (especially with so much emphasis put on the word "VERY").

 

[Susan1]

And typos - double irritation for the day. The weather guy has a "curious question" every day, not always about the weather, that they put up every half hour from 7 to 9 a.m. and give the answer "after the break". The question this morning was about a definition in the MERRIUM WEBSTER dictionary. Good grief.

And I just turned on the news on a different channel. The banner said "Christmas Tree Theif". "I before E except after C, or when sounding like A as in neighbor and weight (and weird)"......

Go back to school, people!