Stolbova and Klimov Thread

[aftershocks]

I was there the entire competition - like the 7th row. How can I sum this up in a nut shell, less than 10 word description?

This team HATES to skate together in competition. There - 8 words sum it up completely!

She simply hates being out there skating and he seems totally stressed out even taking her hand. They NEVER make ANY eye contact in their preparations off the ice or during the 6 minute warm up. No words. Very little touching for element warm ups. Totally disconnected.

NOTHING.

Even as only a former, very low level pair skater myself, one could see something was CLEARLY WRONG with the way they are together. It was uncomfortable to watch. Like I was a peeping-tom to watching a domestic dispute that was none of my business.

Very uncomfortable. Icy. IcKy. And the skating was clearly uninspired and the FS very sleepy and FUNEREAL. Gosh, bury them already.

Sorry ... off soap box. Discuss?

Interesting take, as you were there live. A somewhat revealingly similar take by @clairecloutier in her recent pairs SA summary: https://adivinesport.wordpress.com/. Claire was also there live in the audience at SA, and her take is similar mainly in regard to her view of S/K's overall dynamic during warm-ups, although Claire politely did not make assumptions about what their body language specifically connotes re their relationship. Plus Claire had many positive things to say as well about S/K's talent, costumes, music and choreo choices this season:

...Ksenia/Fedor’s result here was kind of shocking. The odd thing is, their basic skating looked as good as ever. Watching them live, I was really impressed with their unison, speed, power, and partnering skills. Ksenia, in particular, is a striking figure... Fedor looked a bit solemn in warmups and practice ... He and Ksenia skated apart for at least half the time during practices/warmups. I’ve never seen them in competition before, so this may be their regular practice, and not a sign of tensions. When they do join hands, the skill is still very much there, but something just seems to be off with their timing, confidence, and/or comfort level...

I truly appreciate @clairecloutier's blog and her wonderful writing and objective analyses. ITA that this season's programs by S/K are more interesting and better constructed than their last season's programs. Indeed, they both have superb skating skills, and Ksenia is very bold and striking. Her costume is quite sexy and she wears it so well. The problem appears to be that Feodor and Ksenia are a bit out of sync personality-wise.

They seem prepared in terms of their training, but appear to lack confidence and complete trust in each other and in their partnership. Clearly, it is not for lack of trying. Obviously, they have been working hard on their programs and on trying to get along with each other, but definitely something is missing and neither seem to be happy skating together. I could see each soaring to greater heights more effortlessly with respective partners who truly could enhance and bring out the spark in each other. Too bad that good partners who match personality-wise are very hard to find.

 

[zebraswan]

I tend to believe what they say about their relationship over any speculation from outsiders. They have different personalities, but so do Max & Tanya, and many other partners, I'm sure. That doesn't mean they would necessarily be better off with other people. If Fedor couldn't deal with Ksenia's personality, who else would?

I have proof that they do make eye contact, btw. If people want to exaggerate and spin some fanfiction about how much they hate each other, it would be polite to keep it out of their fan thread.

 

[aftershocks]

^^ Sure, they clearly look at each and speak to each other before and after their performances, but seemingly in a subdued, resigned way. I even spied a brief shared sad smile between them after their fp at SA. Of course they talk to each other and train with each other, but that's different from actually enjoying being together and skating together. I have never said that they hate each other (nor is it kind of anyone to suggest they are done or need to be 'buried'). OTOH, it is not a secret that their personalities do not mesh well. ITA that in physical respects they match very well and have been together for a long time, and other options are not available or even all that feasible by this point.

Like @clairecloutier, I have no way of knowing what their true dynamic is, or exactly what is going on between them at this point in their career. Obviously, there are significant competitive pressures, and understandably they each likely feel a great deal of disappointment about how their last season turned out earlier this year. None of us know all the details, unless there are some here who are close to their inner circle and in-the-know.

It is certainly not unusual in pairs skating and ice dance for partners to not get along, despite achieving some success together (e.g., Castelli/ Shnapir; Ilinykh/ Katsalapov among others). S/K were rejuvenated and amazing during the 2014 Olympic season, but they have never been a team who project great personal chemistry. Their Olympic programs were wonderfully conceived in a way that highlighted their strengths. There's still time for them to pull things together going forward, but even for die-hard fans it has to be obvious they are not happy and something is not coming into sync for them currently, despite good programs this season.

 

[Xela M]

The thing about difficult high maintenance personalities is that partners will only put up with them as long as they are winning competitions. When they start messing up and losing, what's the point in forcing yourself to work with this difficult person everyday (see I&K)?

Platov only put up with Grishuk's personality because she was the best and they were winning. If she kept making mistakes in competitions he would have dumped her the next morning.

 

[Amantide]

He and Ksenia skated apart for at least half the time during practices/warmups. I’ve never seen them in competition before, so this may be their regular practice, and not a sign of tensions

That's exactly how Ksenia and Fedor are in warm ups, always. Unless they are doing elements together. Here they are during the warm-up at the EC 2012. (from 8:12). During the EC in 2014. Worlds 2014 LP warm-up. Here is Kurt Browning speaking about it during the SP competition warm up in Sochi. His words from 13:36

Very interesting that they spent the whole time since the warm up away from each other and only just greeted each other to acknowledge the crowd on the announcing of their names. Very different approach. We're not talking cosy togetherness here.

and again after their SP from 23:16

On the warm up they hardly even acknowledge that they were dressed the same and even as they were announcing their names they just seemed like two elements that when they came together that created something that in a chemical reaction that was bigger than the individuals. It was awesome. There was intensity. There was passion. Each element super quality.

Last season at TEB when I saw them live it was the same and honestly they are not the only Pair in doing so. Max&Tatiana often do so as well.
Here at Rostelecom in 2012 , and here they are at Nebelhorn this year also. I've seen many other pairs staying away from each other most of the time during the warm up. There is nothing strange with that. Different people, different way of preparing and concentrating before the performance. Aliona and Robin were very different personalities also.

None of us knows Ksenia and Fedor personally. Their true dynamic as a pair and their relationship off the ice but from people who have seen them in training - like my friends here in italy who went every day to watch them during their training time here in Italy last season and this one - they have noticed nothing wrong with these two. On the contrary, they spent a lot of good words, especially about Ksenia who was very available with them. I simply don't see what the big deal is just because they do not chit chat, or smile and hug, during the warm ups. Sure they are not everybody's cup of tea. Fair enough but plenty of people love them as a pair and their different approach from "oh I'm so lucky to skate with you. I have the best partner in the world. We do a lot of things together off the ice as well. He is so nice. She is so nice." etc.etc. There is nothing wrong with that either but personally, I hope they never change because this is who they are and I love their personality and dynamic as a Pair that they show on the ice.

 

[clairecloutier]

That's exactly how Ksenia and Fedor are in warm ups, always. Unless they are doing elements together. Here they are during the warm-up at the EC 2012. (from 8:12). During the EC in 2014. Worlds 2014 LP warm-up.

Last season at TEB when I saw them live it was the same and honestly they are not the only Pair in doing so. Max&Tatiana often do so as well.
Here at Rostelecom in 2012 , and here they are at Nebelhorn this year also. I've seen many other pairs staying away from each other most of the time during the warm up. There is nothing strange with that. Different people, different way of preparing and concentrating before the performance.

Thanks @Amantide for reporting on this. I think Berezhnaya/Sikharulidze were the same, weren't they? I remember them often skating apart during warmups.

Ksenia/Fedor spent more time apart on practice/warmups than the other pairs at SA, that's a fact, but I'm not going to draw any conclusions about their relationship based on this. If this is their regular practice, and it sounds like it is, then it's a non-issue I think.

 

[PashaFan]

Am I the only one who honestly does not care about the relationship between pairs/ice dance teams ?.
As long as the skating is great then it does not matter but when things go a little bit off we try to look for problems.
People don't always get along, some days are better than others.
Ksenia & Fedor need to concentrate on being the best skaters they can be.
Skate America must have been a testing time for them but I'm sure their coaches have everything under control.
I just watched their Exhibition at Skate America & they were really good. Loved Ksenia's dress !.

 

[antmanb]

Oh yes absolutely. I loved their performance in both programs. I just don't understand why are they having problems with their throws now.

Maybe training the throw quads has affected their timing on the triples? The SP throw, she turned out of which is a sign that she over-rotated and I thought the LP throws also had similar issues.

I just watched the SP and LP yesterday evening and she definitely double footed the landing of the second 3T in combination so I'm very surprised that only one judge gave negative GOE for the element and quite a few gave positive GOE.

I love both of their programmes - the LP in particular is very interesting choreographically, and I love, love LOVE the pairs that don't do the schmaltzy crappy love theme programmes. The costuming and both of their intensity really works in the programmes and I imagine when they can do them with all the elements they will be fierce competition for the other couples.

Another observation - given how fast they skate, they might have been negatively affected by the smaller rink in ways that other slower couples might not.

 

[legjumper]

Sitting in the arena watching them warm up and compete, it seemed to me that their issues stem mainly from timing and confidence. Their timing is off on the twist and throws (for example, on one of the throws in the LP, she jumped after the assist and therefore had trouble landing it), and as a result, their confidence is not high, which in turn affects their performance level and other aspects of skating. In basic pair quality, skating skills, and polish, they were unmatched at this competition.

 

[Amantide]

Ksenia/Fedor spent more time apart on practice/warmups than the other pairs at SA, that's a fact, but I'm not going to draw any conclusions about their relationship based on this. If this is their regular practice, and it sounds like it is, then it's a non-issue I think.

I wasn't putting any doubt on your words Clair. On the contrary, I confirmed what you said but my point was that this is how they always are in the warm ups and that they are not the only ones. Maybe some spend less time apart, I haven't paid much attention to how many minutes each Pair spends apart on warm ups but I don't think that matters at all. For me that's normal and I don't see that as telling regarding anything. Honestly speaking I think there is a prejudice towards these two, since Euros last season, and now everything is over analised and speculation is over the top. If it was a real issue it would've been noticed and discussed even before but it was not, or at least not in a negative way like some do seem to be doing now. I understand that the fact that S&K are having difficulties doesn't help with the perception either but there are also other reasons, which at least we know for sure, that could be contributing to all this. She was injured, then later she changed her boots five times because she was constantly having a toe problem. They were working on new elements and practicing the quad. Maybe that's something messing up with their throws and confidence also. They have still to finish their LP with the modern dance choreographer and they haven't been able to do so due to the schedule of both. I mean there could be different reasons, which I think are more likely to be the main reasons. All this brings more frustration and pressure maybe but personality wise and relationship on ice (that's what I can see and judge) nothing has changed with these two, IMO.

Am I the only one who honestly does not care about the relationship between pairs/ice dance teams ?.

I never cared about that also.

Maybe training the throw quads has affected their timing on the triples? The SP throw, she turned out of which is a sign that she over-rotated and I thought the LP throws also had similar issues.

That's what I thought too. In Nepala especially it was very obvious but I'm not sure what's the best way in these cases. Ditch the idea of the quad, even in practice? On one hand I'm like leave it and focus on the improvements of the other elements but if you're to bring that quad next season, for example, you better practice it even if you don't do it in competition, right?

Another observation - given how fast they skate, they might have been negatively affected by the smaller rink in ways that other slower couples might not.

The British Eurosport guys were saying something about this, when speaking about S&K. I didn't understood very well though because I thought they were saying the ice was thinner in the arena compared with those in Europe. They must have said it was smaller.

 

[Lovemyvike]

Well, they're still my favorites! I am looking forward to their next competition to see both programs again. I love the short and the free. Love their costuming. Love their interpretation. Hope they get over this minor setback because they really are SOOO good, so fast and very unique.

 

[antmanb]

The British Eurosport guys were saying something about this, when speaking about S&K. I didn't understood very well though because I thought they were saying the ice was thinner in the arena compared with those in Europe. They must have said it was smaller.

Yes I think they did say "thinner" but they meant that the short end of the rink is shorter than the full Olympic surfaces.

 

[Amantide]

Yes I think they did say "thinner" but they meant that the short end of the rink is shorter than the full Olympic surfaces.

Oh thanks.

Was it just this arena or it's in USA in general?

 

[antmanb]

Oh thanks.

Was it just this arena or it's in USA in general?

I think maybe one of our US posters can confirm but I think that that the rink used for SA was an NHL sized rink which I believe are 61m x 26m whereas standard International ice is 60m x 30m. I think there are a mix of both rinks in the US.

 

[zebraswan]

I just read an interview with Dmitriev and he said A/R were not accustomed to the narrow rink. But I also heard that the ice itself might have been thin because Alexei Bychenko said his blade went through it and hit concrete in the SP. I don't know how common that is or if anyone else had a problem besides him.

 

[ballettmaus]

I just read an interview with Dmitriev and he said A/R were not accustomed to the narrow rink. But I also heard that the ice itself might have been thin because Alexei Bychenko said his blade went through it and hit concrete in the SP. I don't know how common that is or if anyone else had a problem besides him.

I'm not sure I buy the "we're not accustomed to" excuse anymore. Even I, as a non-competitor and mere fan, know that rinks in the US tend to be different (smaller in size). These skaters know where they're going to compete so training accordingly before the competition might be a good idea. (like putting markers on the ice the week before).
Now, if the ice was actually too thin, that would be a whole other problem!

 

[Amantide]

Now, if the ice was actually too thin, that would be a whole other problem!

I admit I'm quite ignorant about this "thin ice" thing. How does this work? Why is it thin and what are the problems?

 

[Lovemyvike]

So, am I correct in my assumption that the next competition we'll see them in is the Rostelecom Cup in a few weeks? I am really expecting them to have some of their swagger back. I definitely wouldn't count them out of anything, just need to work out some kinks.

 

[s_parks]

So, am I correct in my assumption that the next competition we'll see them in is the Rostelecom Cup in a few weeks? I am really expecting them to have some of their swagger back. I definitely wouldn't count them out of anything, just need to work out some kinks.

I agree. I'm surprised to see quite a few people counting them out- maybe this won't exactly be their best season ever, but I trust they'll get better as the season progresses.

 

[clairecloutier]

For those who haven't watched, their Skate America gala number:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NUo6vSq3o0

Very nice, and Ksenia looked like she was enjoying herself here.

 

[Lovemyvike]

For those who haven't watched, their Skate America gala number:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NUo6vSq3o0

Very nice, and Ksenia looked like she was enjoying herself here.

Her dresses have been stunning these last few years.

 

[Amantide]

Her dresses have been stunning these last few years.

It was you who wrote "she slays her costumes this season"? I absolutely agree.

 

[Lovemyvike]

It was you who wrote "she slays her costumes this season"? I absolutely agree.

She really does. And I am really loving the hair too, now that's it's dark again. It suits her well. Her (their, actually) packaging is fantastic this season. (Obviously the only improvement I would prefer is for Fedor to wear much less but apparently that's frowned on by judges for some reason...) Now they just need to get the confidence and swagger back.
I was meh about their programs last year but LOVE both this year. Whatever tension existed last year seems to have calmed down a bit, so hopefully they can get a few good performances under their belts and get back to the podium ASAP. Debating whether or not I want to go to Worlds and a big part of my decision is if they can make it on the team. How many pairs spots does Russia have for the Worlds this year btw?

 

[Amantide]

She really does. And I am really loving the hair too, now that's it's dark again. It suits her well.

Love the hair too. It's exactly what we were talking about since she cut her hair. A Winona Ryder hair style.

Her (their, actually) packaging is fantastic this season. (Obviously the only improvement I would prefer is for Fedor to wear much less but apparently that's frowned on by judges for some reason...)

I was meh about their programs last year but LOVE both this year. Whatever tension existed last year seems to have calmed down a bit, so hopefully they can get a few good performances under their belts and get back to the podium ASAP.

Fingers crossed for Nationals and Euros now. I hope they win CoR too. It will not help them with the GPF but will be a great boost for them.

Debating whether or not I want to go to Worlds and a big part of my decision is if they can make it on the team. How many pairs spots does Russia have for the Worlds this year btw?

Three spots.

 

[Karpenko]

Her hair was all a scare tactic to let us know that she was Girl, Interrupted.



The LP is so interesting and mesmerizing once you get into the choreography. Very bold, modern, abstract, and intense. I love it the more that I see it, I like how it's understated too and doesn't hit you over the head. It's one of the best programs of the year for me.

TBH I think she's completely nuts and will always have a soft spot for her because of it. She is never going to let us figure her out

 

[morqet]

https://www.instagram.com/p/-CDER_REFW/

Nooooooooooooooooooooo

 

[lauravvv]

https://www.instagram.com/p/-CDER_REFW/

Nooooooooooooooooooooo

I don't think her hair could grow so quickly. Either it's a wig, and she is just making fun of us, or she has extensions.

 

[Karpenko]

I give up, just please skate well.

 

[Loves_Shizuka]

Ksenia

 

[Amantide]

https://www.instagram.com/p/-CDER_REFW/

Nooooooooooooooooooooo

It's a wig. She's such a troll.
Everything is okay.