Again his skating ability does not correlate to his technical knowledge. I never did a 3a or a quad and I can tell you most of the time what went wrong when a skater doesn't land it. I never was a pair skater, but I can tell you a lot about lifts, throws, death spirals, etc because I knew very high level pair skaters and coaches. I learned about it. Dave did too. Being a great skater does not equal great technical knowledge. There are a lot of people on this board that never skated that have amazing insight on technique, choreography, results, etc. It's more about the passion for the sport than any else. Dave has that.
The Skating Lesson
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Again his skating ability does not correlate to his technical knowledge. I never did a 3a or a quad and I can tell you most of the time what went wrong when a skater doesn't land it. I never was a pair skater, but I can tell you a lot about lifts, throws, death spirals, etc because I knew very high level pair skaters and coaches. I learned about it. Dave did too. Being a great skater does not equal great technical knowledge. There are a lot of people on this board that never skated that have amazing insight on technique, choreography, results, etc. It's more about the passion for the sport than any else. Dave has that.
There’s many issues with Dave Lease, but discounting technical knowledge just because he didn’t execute the elements makes zero sense. Do you have any idea how many successful coaches never landed quads? Or landed anything beyond a double axel? Don’t think Doug Leigh or Christy Krall ever did a 3A or a quad.
Furthermore, most judges never executed high level triples and quads either.
I don’t necessarily agree with everything he said about Med’s technique (or anyone else’s for that matter), but what he was saying on this most recent show is mostly accurate. She does jump with her arms more than her legs. And yes, it’s correct that when the body changes, this technique is more susceptible to breaking down.
Anyway, just because he never did it himself doesn’t mean he doesn’t have capacity to understand technique. I think he’s problematic and a deliberate shit disturber, but I won’t sit here and say he doesn’t have mostly sound technical knowledge.
Furthermore, most judges never executed high level triples and quads either.
I don’t necessarily agree with everything he said about Med’s technique (or anyone else’s for that matter), but what he was saying on this most recent show is mostly accurate. She does jump with her arms more than her legs. And yes, it’s correct that when the body changes, this technique is more susceptible to breaking down.
Anyway, just because he never did it himself doesn’t mean he doesn’t have capacity to understand technique. I think he’s problematic and a deliberate shit disturber, but I won’t sit here and say he doesn’t have mostly sound technical knowledge.
Tinami Amori
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I see, never would have thought that was the case. thank you for clarifying what it means.
WillyElliot
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I never stated that someone has to be able to do it themselves to understand technique. I see what a skater does wrong when it is obvious, and I never landed a quad lutz. So please don't put words in my mouth.
muffinplus
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Re: Angela and the dead mother.
Didn’t watch the video, but whether the reference means her actual mother or her coach Elena, the statement is insanely ridiculous.
The competition in which her mother passed away, 2005 Nationals, was her last. She withdrew after the car crash.
Also, she had better results when Tcherkasskaya was alive and coaching her throughout the 2000-2001 season and it’s when she had her total transformation to a more artistic side of skating. Tcherkasskaya passed away shortly after the 2001-2002 Nations Cup competition, and Angela was really never the same after that IMO.
As for Jenny, it’s obvious they don’t really get along anymore. So mentioning her and her mom was just another tacky dig. She took a lot of the access to the skating world and Dave’s ‘free pass’ with her, along with all of the recording equipment. Bitter.
Didn’t watch the video, but whether the reference means her actual mother or her coach Elena, the statement is insanely ridiculous.
The competition in which her mother passed away, 2005 Nationals, was her last. She withdrew after the car crash.
Also, she had better results when Tcherkasskaya was alive and coaching her throughout the 2000-2001 season and it’s when she had her total transformation to a more artistic side of skating. Tcherkasskaya passed away shortly after the 2001-2002 Nations Cup competition, and Angela was really never the same after that IMO.
As for Jenny, it’s obvious they don’t really get along anymore. So mentioning her and her mom was just another tacky dig. She took a lot of the access to the skating world and Dave’s ‘free pass’ with her, along with all of the recording equipment. Bitter.
barbarafan
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Passive aggressive Canadian tactic
For instance In Canada it is considered very bad form to be rascist, a bad sport,to think women belong in a kitchen etc etc which does not mean that there are no Canadians who are guilty of one or all of those things but that you cannot let on that you are ...You must keep it hidden. So in a restaurant or bar group of 7 friends where someone made a rascist comment no one is going to punch the rascist in the mouth or ask him to leave but after a few moments one by one 5 of them will think of somewhere they have to be and leave and prob. one will make a subtle remark to the rascist about his/her comment and then leave and it might take ten minutes before the racist realizes he/she has been insulted,put down or kissed good-bye. After that all of the 6 will be too busy to take their calls for 3 generations.
IN this particular instance he was talking if W/P should have beat H/D so he wondered if the marks had been gently played with to put W/P ahead without any outright huge discrepancies in the marking.
Jordan-kissing butts
so very likable photographer taking great shots and vids of skaters and being allowed in the top skating schools to do so.
Dave very upset as he is basically personna non grata in all of these schools as he is not likable and stabs skaters and coaches in the back so he has to rely on back alley 3rd party stories from unreliable sources for news.
Well, you did say that given the level of his own skating, that him having technical knowledge of edges was laughable. I stand by my response
I watched it and I believe it was in reference to her mother not Elena. I don't recall Angela ever getting any 'dead mother' points as she wd from Nationals that year like you said and never competed again. I remember hearing a lot more about Jenny's mom passing away anyhow.
Although you have a point. I do remember a lot of talk of Elena's passing. I know she hid the severity of her illness for some time to Angela. But Dave didn't seem to be referring to that. I think the whole comment was off as I don't think Angela ever received sympathy points from anyone over anything. She was just a very, very talent head case. If she skated well judges would give her points because she deserved it.
Tinami Amori
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Thanks! i thought naturally it has to do with placements, just can't figure out how an international panel of judges can be a part of "passive aggressive Canadian tactic", so i thought maybe there is something "canadian" that was taking place.
Ok, i get it. Dave L. is a combo of Andy Kaufman and Bill Maher of figure skating..
barbarafan
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With a touch of Donald Trump in there
Tinami Amori
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Only Dave's good qualities, like knowing the techniques of how to make skaters great again..
aftershocks
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How crass and awful for DL to even go there! But clearly unsurprising too, coming from him.
Someone loses their mother in such a horrific and tragic way, and sideline buffoons think it's something to highlight and carp about in a coded meme fashion within the skating community years later! It's amazing that Angela even came back to skate. The same goes for Joannie Rochette and for any athlete who experiences terrible personal tragedy and are able to make the courageous, concerted effort to still go out and compete on a big stage (e.g., Dan Jansen losing his sister before the Olympics, and still trying to compete while grief-stricken). Dave and Jonathan, as usual, are insufferrable about their own OTT conceits. And, as usual, for lack of enough viable fs coverage, some of us still watch TSL and unavoidably continue to bitch over their WTF bitching and snarking. 
It's rather interesting that some of you picked up on these saltier and more cluelessly bitchy DL references I let go in one ear and out the other since most of what DL is obsessed about is the obsessions of his own dark and gnarly envy and failing wannabe-ness. How easy it is to snark on skaters and athletes whose talent you can never achieve! I think there's a huge element of envy in a lot of DL's bitchy critiques. It was funny watching DL's sour visage as JB tried and failed not to give Bradie Tennell too much credit for fear of putting DL's face further out of joint.
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aftershocks
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Hey, some very interesting observations, and in many aspects I agree with you. I think you are being very thoughtful and specific in a constructive and conversational way, which is definitely opposed to the snarky, know-it-all approach of TSL's DL/JB dis-fests.
Of course it's possible to critique DL over his grasp of fs tech knowledge, especially in the know-it-all, snarky way he's chosen to disseminate his annoying shtick. DL is not an expert, despite having insider skating friends who tolerate his WTF ass. I used to tolerate DL too and look away at his bitchy excesses, but personally for me, those days are over.
DL's bad outweighs any f'ing good that has ever existed in his approach to fs coverage.
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muffinplus
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I never said he had to successfully have *completed* quads or triples. But has he even had coaching/training for those kind of jumps (even if never completed them ) or is he at least someone who is a certified coach ? He is not, so why this comparison to Doug Leigh etc?
No comment about anyone's mother as I know nothing about it, but Dave has mentioned corresponding with Jenny multiple times in the recent episodes. He said they reconnected after Denis Ten's death.
If Dave can still get Olympic medalists and their coaches and choreographers on his show, does he really still need the access Jenny provided?
I think some people here project their own feelings for Dave onto the skaters, coaches, etc that you respect and like. But while some people openly detest him, there are plenty who seem happy to speak with him even now with Jenny long gone, like Alissa Czisny, Duhamel, Savchenko. Which surprises me because I thought the Deadspin article, where the reporter described Dave speaking to a former skater about a controversy without telling her she was on speakerphone with a reporter present, would warn people off. I was apalled by that and thought people would stop giving Dave access. I was wrong, and people either didn't read it or don't care.
Dave and Jonathan provide plenty of reason to criticize them, there's no need to reach.
aftershocks
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Yeah, thanks. I didn't think Angela was able to compete at that Nationals (where her mother died in the traffic crash, and she was badly injured). I didn't recall whether Angela ever came back to skate again though. I thought she had. I know she stayed involved as a coach and married another skater (Ivan Dinev).
bardtoob
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Clearly David is a wannabe insider, hangeroner, and a bigot ... But, sure, he can tell a Lutz from a Flip and probably knows all the turns and steps, like non-skating fans here on FSU. I don't think his personal skating has added to his knowledge as a spectator.
aftershocks
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Well, we don't really know whether Jenny has or has not continued to provide some assistance to DL in obtaining guests, likely not as FWIW, Jenny did not leave TSL completely amicably. Sure, DL has enjoyed playing up the fact he's back in contact with Jenny due to the skating community's shock over Denis' death.
Oh well. I think it's clear that TSL was built on the back of Jenny's skating fame and contacts. That DL appears to have unwarranted control over the platform's archives and its ongoing existence should be a thorn in the skating community's side, because he's so personally irresponsible and overly snarky in a mean-spirited way.I have no doubt that there are people who like Dave or who tolerate him as a 'useful tool,' and who may be unaware of his worst excesses. DL surely has received some help and assistance from Bezic and Duhamel. I found it interesting that soon after I posted the old TSL interview with Frank Carroll in Frank's retirement thread, DL managed to cop interviews with coaches including Shpilband, Raf, and Savchenko (which granted may have been already in the works).
There's no need for a lot of stuff that goes on in skating to go on, but go on it does...
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Tinami Amori
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Dave certainly made some interesting points about "marketing certain pieces of music and turning them into tributes to this or that cause"... I often wonder the true reasons why skaters/teams chose pieces like "Imagine/Lennon", "Schin. List", "9/11 tributes", "MLKjr speech", and several other "less obvious agenda" music choices.
aftershocks
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^^ No matter how choices are characterized, there's likely a variety of reasons and impulses for certain selections. Above all, skaters have to skate to something. Obviously, there are many different avenues and ways that music choices are decided upon. And sometimes magic happens. Quite often, magic doesn't necessarily happen. But the point is to find something motivating and enhancing, or at least suitable and effective. It's a bonus when a selection takes a skater to the next level in terms of their personal growth and audience appreciation.
And that's what makes his snarky excesses, his irresponsible behavior and his worst personality traits so sad and woefully intolerable.
And that's what makes his snarky excesses, his irresponsible behavior and his worst personality traits so sad and woefully intolerable.
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Maybe recently they have 'reconnected', yes, but it was addressed not long ago how Dave managed to throw in a last-minute dig at Jenny's 'riveting' (I think that was the word) Instagram stories, and it was clear he was being extremely sarcastic. I also know for sure that all of the equipment that was bought with sponsor money/revenue from the old show were taken by Jenny when she left.
I'm not reaching with anything I said, because he no longer has press credentials to events. Many skaters have been told not to associate with him. People within federations have said not to talk to him. Many skaters that he does associate with, he ends up badmouthing in some way later on and then those connections end. Dave and Jenny were getting interviews all the time way back when, and now- not so much. There are still a few, yes, hence why my choice of words was 'she took away a lot of the access'.
barbarafan
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He did not lose access with Jenny leaving as he now had his foot in the door but his behavior without Jenny putting a bit of a leash and muzzle on him caused him to lose his credibility, credentials and access to people. Other people have given him a trial period after he grovelled for forgiveness and if he puts a foot wrong they will crush him underfoot like a bug.
Yeah. I'm not saying she literally sent out e-mails to every single skater, coach, and official in the sport saying they could no longer talk to Dave. I'm saying that the connections or pull that she had as a former top skater were gone when she was gone. He did have a good thing going, but everyone can see how quickly it went away after her departure.
For whatever reason, writing this made me have a flashback to a really random Bridesmaids quote - "Why can't you be happy for me and then go home and talk about me behind my back like a normal person?"
Tinami Amori
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I don't think anyone can "crush him".. if he is not fed "gossips" he'll just continue to give commentary to the skating events, with his usual flair. there is enough there for people to listen anyway. plus, not sure if everyone will stop feeding him info. some people will always use him to promote their issues against "others".
Did you know that at most levels, FS judges are not required to be former competitors?
http://usfigureskating.org/story?id=89433
“Q: Do I have to be a really good skater to be a judge?
A: Technical knowledge of figure skating is essential, but each person starts with a different degree of skating knowledge. While former skaters usually have a broader base of technical knowledge when beginning the trial judging process, ability as a skater is not in itself the measure of judging ability. There are many good judges who only skated recreationally - in the long run, temperament and willingness to serve are of more importance. A limited skating background should not discourage anyone interested in becoming a judge. Individuals who are new to the sport must be willing to put in the hours necessary to acquire technical knowledge, from studying texts and attending judge's schools to skating themselves (preferably with quality instruction).”
misskarne
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Actually, that's pretty much exactly what you said. You said his skating was awful so you found it laughable that he'd talk about edges.
Again, you don't have to be a certified coach or someone who has completed those jumps to know about technique.
And that's what makes his snarky excesses, his irresponsible behavior and his worst personality traits so sad and woefully intolerable.[/QUOTE]
I totally get your point, but he doesn't bother me. There are a number of reasons to hate him, but if you don't like TSL-don't watch. He has done some wildly inappropriate things and it's hard for me personally to get through him and Jonathan's episodes because they are so long, but it is what it is. Dave isn't going to change. Jenny has 0 to do with TSL at this point, but he still has a lot of credible sources until they run out he's going to continue his same format. He does this for free basically so he can say what he wants. It's his right I guess. Just talking about him and TSL is fanning the flames. He wants that.
I totally get your point, but he doesn't bother me. There are a number of reasons to hate him, but if you don't like TSL-don't watch. He has done some wildly inappropriate things and it's hard for me personally to get through him and Jonathan's episodes because they are so long, but it is what it is. Dave isn't going to change. Jenny has 0 to do with TSL at this point, but he still has a lot of credible sources until they run out he's going to continue his same format. He does this for free basically so he can say what he wants. It's his right I guess. Just talking about him and TSL is fanning the flames. He wants that.
Understanding the technique of any sport doesn't mean that you have to actually be doing the sport itself, let alone at an extremely high level. I think many fans who are all-around fans of skating (not just of particular skaters or styles) have a really good understanding of what good technique is and what the problem is when something goes wrong.
Tinami Amori
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He is not doing it for free. His site is monetized, and he has John Wilson Blades sponsorship (with a disclaimer that the site's opinions may not reflect company's views).
https://www.youtube.com/user/TheSkatingLesson
Dave is not just giving opinions, which would be fine no matter how extreme they are. He is financially capitalizing on "unproven gossips" which maybe damaging to individuals and teams in the skating communities. He says things not because that is how he feels or thinks or feels strongly about. He stirs up sh.t and makes harmful accusations to gain attention to his site to make money, at other people's expense.
The equivalent of what he is doing, for example, is to put on an invisible string on a side walk to make people trip, in order to film them falling and screaming in funny poses, and then sell the videos for profit. You can film people, and you can film them if they trip naturally, i suppose..... but you have no right to make them trip and to make money off it.
