Japan's Hanyu fumes at rival for 'intentional' collision

[MsZem]

Denis and Yuzuru did not have a huge fight or anything. They don't jump into each other and kick and kill. Yuzuru said he got angry after the incident and he was furious that the practice session got ruined.

I can't imagine that Hanyu is so fragile that something like this can ruin his practice. He's a seasoned competitor who's dealt with far greater pressure and adversity than a practice mishap.

Michelle Kwan

You know, I really believe that all this could have been avoided if Denis and Yuzuru had been wearing purple.

 

[bardtoob]

I am saying go **** yourself for trying to draw me into that.

Um ... Not a great response. Please keep stuff like that off the forum.

You are right, @SHARPIE

I will not respond like that in the future. I can easily say the same thing in a different way.

Seriously, why would this guy be allowed to trash talk and bully posters like this? And the admin doing nothing about it?

Last time I checked, Sharpie was not only an admin but the owner of the board, and I agreed I should have handle the politically motivated comments differently.

The admins are doing a fine job.

 

[Loves_Shizuka]

You know, I really believe that all this could have been avoided if Denis and Yuzuru had been wearing purple.

Your wisdom is an example to us all.

 

[forthewin]

Last time I checked, Sharpie was not only an admin but the owner of the board, and I agreed I should have handle the politically motivated comments differently.

Then you should delete your posts and appolize to the posters you attacked. Those are very hurtful words, not to mention boardline racism. I don't see you are one bit sorry for what you said. Just saying you won't do it again don't cut it.

 

[bardtoob]

Then you should delete your posts and appolize to the posters you attacked. Those are very hurtful words, not to mention boardline racism. I don't see you are one bit sorry for what you said. Just saying you won't do it again don't cut it.

I think you just don't like seeing it, hence your politically motivated commentary.

I said what I said, and I have the integrity to leave it and let others be the judge.

 

[forthewin]

I think you just don't like seeing it.

I think any civilized person with a good sense of right and wrong don't like seeing it. You are not sorry for the way you bully others, but just afraid of the punishment. Is it hard to appolize to the ones you wronged?

 

[bardtoob]

I think any civilized person with a good sense of right and wrong don't like seeing it. You are not sorry for the way you bully others, but just afraid of the punishment. Is it hard to appolize the ones you wronged?

I do not need to apologize because the poster baited this situation. I am only sorry I took the bait.

 

[forthewin]

I think you just don't like seeing it, hence your politically motivated commentary.

I said what I said, and I have the integrity to leave it and let others be the judge.

Since when insulting others equals integrity? I hope at least the admins know what is right and wrong.

 

[forthewin]

I think Hanyu is still in shock from the CoC 2014 collision with the Chinese skater, where I think it was intentional. Denis was in the way at Worlds 2016 practice, but reports from off the ice said it looked unintentional.

I do not need to apologize because the poster baited this situation. I am only sorry I took the bait.

Lol, intentional bait, pun intended. I'm done with you. I just hope the admins will make the right judgement.

 

[bardtoob]

Since when insulting others equals integrity? I hope at least the admins know what is right and wrong.

If you believed what you say, then you would not be asking the question.

I left my posts so others can judge.

 

[antmanb]

I do not need to apologize because the poster baited this situation. I am only sorry I took the bait.

How on earth were you baited? You were the one that wrote:

I think Hanyu is still in shock from the CoC 2014 collision with the Chinese skater, where I think it was intentional.

Several people have questioned how on earth you could think that CoC collision between Hanyu and Yan was intentional and you've gone off on one about political rants.

 

[bardtoob]

@antmanb

I actually think Yuzuru Hanyu and Han Yan were equally at fault and both caused the collision at 2014 Cup of China. I think they did it intentionally to themselves like stupid young men playing chicken, assuming the lesser would give way to the greater, and it did not go so well for either of them.

Here is a still frame that sums it up.

http://postimg.org/image/7zpkrq7q3/

Here is the video where the still frame came from.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0MTsxj8hoI

 

[handomi]

Hanyu and Yan Han collision was result of collection of terrible bad luck. They both started exactly the same jump pattern and they were unable to see each other

 

[antmanb]

@antmanb

I actually think Yuzuru Hanyu and Han Yan were equally at fault and both caused the collision at 2014 Cup of China. I think they did it intentionally to themselves like stupid young men playing chicken, assuming the lesser would give way to the greater, and it did not go so well for either of them.

Here is a still frame that sums it up.

http://postimg.org/image/7zpkrq7q3/

Here is the video where the still frame came from.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0MTsxj8hoI

The still that you post is the split second before they collide which is as they both turn forward, which they did at speed - there was no way out of that. Look at the Eurosport footage of the whole collision.

Seriously posting stills from youtube reminds me of the insane Asada-Kim wars on youtube.

No-one, besides you, has ever suggested that the crash was intentional, and I don't see how anyone can argue that it was.

 

[bardtoob]

I think Hanyu is still in shock from the CoC 2014 collision with the Chinese skater, where I think it was intentional.

The still that you post is the split second before they collide which is as they both turn forward, which they did at speed - there was no way out of that. Look at the Eurosport footage of the whole collision.

Seriously posting stills from youtube reminds me of the insane Asada-Kim wars on youtube.

No-one, besides you, has ever suggested that the crash was intentional, and I don't see how anyone can argue that it was.

I know I think different for no other reason than I think BOTH were at fault. Unfortunately, some think only in either/or terms, and assumed I was for and against one or the another. I know for certain that I was misunderstood because my comment was ambiguous to some.

I think Yuzuru Hanyu and Han Yan are both talented skaters that were acting stupid. It happens to athletes all the time.

------------------------------

Here is a still frame that sums it up.

http://postimg.org/image/7zpkrq7q3/

Here is the video where the still frame came from.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0MTsxj8hoI

 

[antmanb]

I know for certain that I was misunderstood because my comment was ambiguous to some.

Your post wasn't ambiguous at all - you may not have written what you meant, but it was a fairly bold statement saying the collision was intentional, and when you were questioned about it you chose to respond aggressively rather than try to justify your IMO unjustifiable opinion and started throwing the political card in as well.

Anyway there's no point discussing further, I couldn't disagree with you more about the CoC collision, and thing this latest brou-ha-ha with Ten and Hanyu is much ado about nothing, and the media trying to create a story where there is none.

 

[bardtoob]

. . . thing this latest brou-ha-ha with Ten and Hanyu is much ado about nothing, and the media trying to create a story where there is none.

I agree with you on this point.

 

[Meoima]

I can't imagine that Hanyu is so fragile that something like this can ruin his practice. He's a seasoned competitor who's dealt with far greater pressure and adversity than a practice mishap.

This is just 1 part of the video https://twitter.com/enmi_g/status/715828723916881922
It was during Yuzuru's run through, he was doing step sequence. You can see other guys skating around but not in the center. Denis kept spinning in the center and it was dangerous. It's almost a hit.
I assume Denis was in his own world and he did not notice the surrounding. But this was during Yuzuru's run though and it's dangerous. Not to mention it happened 3 times. It is easy to see why Yuzuru got scared and angry in this case, especially after CoC last season.
Yuzuru himself said afterwards he should not have lost his temper. You can see he was unease in the video.

 

[kittyjake5]

I can't imagine that Hanyu is so fragile that something like this can ruin his practice. He's a seasoned competitor who's dealt with far greater pressure and adversity than a practice mishap.


You know, I really believe that all this could have been avoided if Denis and Yuzuru had been wearing purple.

.....and maybe having some junior mints for a snack before practice would have helped too.

 

[Cachoo]

Outfit them all with specially designed TCAS

I'm definitely in the "Frank Carroll would not allow a skater to get away with deliberately endangering others" camp. Even if Denis did some like the type to do so, which he does not.

Btw is Frank ok? He looked a littled wan in the kiss-n-cry with Gracie. Regarding the incident it does sound like there has been something brewing for awhile. Better to nip it in the bud now.

 

[Spareoom]

I honestly don't see how anything could be intentional. Careless, yes. Not as considerate as possible, yes. But intentional? Nah. Maybe Hanyu overreacted a little. But I guarantee that if the circumstances were swapped and Ten was the one who had been in an incredibly dangerous and painful collision not too long ago, he would get really spooked and frustrated at another skater's perceived carelessness. Hanyu's collision at CoC effed up his entire season and could have given him permanent damage. He's probably even more sensitive to rink etiquette now and honestly can anyone blame him? I wouldn't.

 

[mkaruna]

Frank Caroll's interview: There were no clashes


- Frank, let's start by clarifying, when did this take place and what kind of training was it?

- It was March 29th, the day before the main event and they were practicing with music.

- So, it was not the day of the event and not at the TD Garden Arena?

- No-no. It wasn't at the main arena, but at the Steriti Memorial Rink.

- What was the overall situation on the ice?

- There were 6 people on the ice, but the practice was wrapping up and most skaters moved toward the barriers.

- What was Denis doing at the moment when Hanyu started preparing for his jump?

- Denis was in the center of the ice and he was practicing a combined spin which he does at the end of his short program.

- The main question on everyone's mind is: was there really a collision?

- No, there wasn't. Hanyu was going for his jump in the center of the rink, straight at Denis while he was doing his spin. There was no collision.

- Again, what was Hanyu doing at that moment?

- He was practicing his triple axel. He moved to the center while Denis was spinning in one spot.

- And what happened then?

- Well, he still went at Denis, then yelled something angrily and passed him by, but he still continued with his movement, jumped the triple axel and then he fell.

- Do you remember what exactly did Hanyu say?

- I don't know, he yelled in Japanese.

- What is your take on the situation?

- Nobody is at fault. Neither Denis nor Hanyu are guilty. Things like these happen quite often. First of all, Denis was performing his spin and thus he wasn't aware of what exactly was happening on the ice when Hanyu's music started playing. Second, Hanyu is an experienced athlete and an Olympic champion. He could have gone two feet on one side of Denis or two feet on the other side of Denis. There was enough space between Denis and the barrier, since there was nobody else on the ice by that time. It was possible to change the direction a little bit before making the triple axel. It doesn't take much skill, but, for some reason, Hanyu still didn't do it. Hanyu once collided with Han Yan in China, where both boys were badly injured. He also had a collision with Murakami at the Japanese Nationals, where no-one was injured. And now here he has this incident with Denis Ten. It seems to me like a pattern of collisions and it's strange that it happened three times.

- Can you tell me more about the axel jump? Particularly, how is it different from other jumps?

- This jump is the only one that is conducted face-forward, whereas in other jumps you move backwards, because that way it is easier to vault using the toe-pick. The triple axel is an extremely difficult jump and you have start prepping for it at the far end of the ice rink.

- Does this mean that, in order to perform the triple axel, the skater should be able to see everything that's in front of him?

- Yes, and since it is a long way from the end of the rink to its center, I think that Hanyu had enough time to get ready and adapt his pattern.




http://vesti.kz/figure_skating/218402/

 

[aftershocks]

Denis the Menace vs Hanyu the Angry Alien-ated Prince of Faraway Realms

Film at 11

If Hanyu is from another planet, then Denis must be from another dimension. That might explain everything, or NOT.

Denis: To be or not to be, that is the question. Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, or to take arms against a sea of troubles and by opposing, end them?

Hanyu: Something's rotten in the rink in Boston... Excellent wretch! Perdition catch my soul ... Chaos has come again.

Denis: And what's he then that says I play the villain? This look of thine will hurl my soul from heaven.

Hanyu: I hold my peace, sir? No... I will wear my heart upon my sleeve... Who, certain of his fate loves not his wronger?

Denis: He that filches from me my good name, robs me of that which not enriches him. And makes me poor indeed... Good name in man and woman is the immediate jewel of their souls... Men in rage strike those that wish them best.

Hanyu: What wound did ever heal but by degrees? Perplexed in the extreme ... I am not what I am.

Denis: Men should be what they seem... Tis within ourselves that we are thus or thus.

Hanyu: I have no spur ... but only vaulting ambition, which o'er leaps itself.

Denis: I pray you in your letters, when you shall these unlucky deeds relate, speak of me as I am, nothing extenuate. Nor set down aught in malice ... of one not easily jealous.

Hanyu: O, beware of jealousy. It is the green-eyed monster.
(Note: Above quotes 'filched' from a random mixture of passages in Hamlet & Othello)

Now, for actual real quotes by Hanyu and Denis during behind-the-scenes interviews with Michael Buckley on IN:

Hanyu, after sp: "I feel very happy. My practices were like crazy [Hanyu makes a face], so I was really nervous, more than at GPF...[When Hanyu was asked about his rivalry with Javi:] I wanna be number 1, stay calm and stay focused."

Denis, after sp: "Well, my goal is 2018. I'm trying to take all the challenges along the way. [When Denis was asked when he looks back at his Worlds 2013 performance, whether he thinks he should have won:] I don't watch my own videos. I'm not fond of my skating... I mostly enjoy watching skaters from previous generations... I think [Worlds 2013] was a great skate for me. I also had a tough season, so it's just one of great memories for me. But I never look back. I only look forward."

 

[Meoima]

- What is your take on the situation?
- Nobody is at fault. Neither Denis nor Hanyu are guilty. Things like these happen quite often. First of all, Denis was performing his spin and thus he wasn't aware of what exactly was happening on the ice when Hanyu's music started playing. Second, Hanyu is an experienced athlete and an Olympic champion. He could have gone two feet on one side of Denis or two feet on the other side of Denis. There was enough space between Denis and the barrier, since there was nobody else on the ice by that time. It was possible to change the direction a little bit before making the triple axel. It doesn't take much skill, but, for some reason, Hanyu still didn't do it. Hanyu once collided with Han Yan in China, where both boys were badly injured. He also had a collision with Murakami at the Japanese Nationals, where no-one was injured. And now here he has this incident with Denis Ten. It seems to me like a pattern of collisions and it's strange that it happened three times.
http://vesti.kz/figure_skating/218402/

Thank you for your translation. However I have to disagree with Frank:

1) It was Yuzuru who changed the direction to avoid hitting Denis. Frank is saying as if Yuzuru didn't change the direction which is not true. Rocker Skating did note that it was Yuzuru who changed his direction. So Yuzuru already did his best to avoid any potential collision.

Hanyu yelled out at Ten and redirected his path to get out of the way of Ten's spin

Source: http://www.rockerskating.com/news/2016/3/31/2016-worlds-practice-notes-day-4-a-note-on-hanyu-ten

2) Yuzuru's 3A is designed to be in the second half of the program, which means the music has started about 1.5 minute before he attempted the 3A. So Denis kept spinning for 1.5 minute without having any idea of the background music. If you think it's possible then ok. I find it a bit weird. Denis is that much unaware of the surrounding? Let's assume Denis was unaware. However:

3) Denis was in Yuzuru's way 3 times in total. People were there (like Karne) can confirm and they saw it. This is one of the incidents: https://twitter.com/enmi_g/status/715828723916881922
So it is not just 1 incident at all. If you see the same skater crossing your way during YOUR music run though not just 1 but 3 times, what do you feel about it?

Having said that, I hope both of them will settle this down calmly and peacefully

 

[mathil]

Also, Hanyu approaches the 3A skating backwards, then doing a back counter and turning forwards at the last moment before jumping. What Carroll said in his interview doesn't apply - he had no way of seeing Denis until the last moment.

 

[MsZem]

.....and maybe having some junior mints for a snack before practice would have helped too.

No, it would have to be peeps.

 

[mrinalini]

Denis and Yuzuru did not have a huge fight or anything. They don't jump into each other and kick and kill. Yuzuru said he got angry after the incident and he was furious that the practice session got ruined. But then after that Yuzuru himself said it was wrong of him to get angry. He felt sorry that he lost his temper that way.

"Kill"? Well, Yuzuru does frequently have that murderous look about him...

Slamming your fists into the boards is just super childish, IMO; that's the sort of behavior you'd expect from a spoilt, bratty child or a diva, not a responsible adult. And I'm sorry, but Yuzuru does not get a pass just because he's a sheltered celebrity who's spent his whole life in an ice rink, not when we have people like Michelle Kwan or Mao Asada who were exemplary role models even when they were teenagers. Yuzuru's frustration is understandable and his apology is welcome, but I expected more as far as his reaction is concerned...I can't help but think how someone like Patrick Chan would've been crucified had he displayed similar behavior.

 

[misskarne]

- What is your take on the situation?

- Nobody is at fault. Neither Denis nor Hanyu are guilty. Things like these happen quite often. First of all, Denis was performing his spin and thus he wasn't aware of what exactly was happening on the ice when Hanyu's music started playing.

http://vesti.kz/figure_skating/218402/

This is a shockingly terrible answer from a supposedly wise and experienced coach. Carroll knows that the skater in music has right of way! Denis is 100% at fault! And Denis should be aware when someone's music is playing. Is he kidding me?

 

[Meoima]

"Kill"? Well, Yuzuru does frequently have that murderous look about him...

Slamming your fists into the boards is just super childish, IMO; that's the sort of behavior you'd expect from a spoilt, bratty child or a diva, not a responsible adult. And I'm sorry, but Yuzuru does not get a pass just because he's a sheltered celebrity who's spent his whole life in an ice rink, not when we have people like Michelle Kwan or Mao Asada who were exemplary role models even when they were teenagers. Yuzuru's frustration is understandable and his apology is welcome, but I expected more as far as his reaction is concerned...I can't help but think how someone like Patrick Chan would've been crucified had he displayed similar behavior.

Hanyu doesn't going around and throwing his intense look daily. I'm sure no one can live with that.
So because he is Hanyu he is expected to behave as a role model like Michelle Kwan or Mao Asada? Oh well...
And no one says he doesn't get a pass for getting angry. Many people are saying as if in his situation, getting angry is unacceptable even though he has all the rights to get angry.
Oh come on, he is no alien as people often joke.
What makes me feel funny is that people are acting as if it's wrong for a skater to get angry when he got his pass cut 3 times in a row during his own run though his own music, and on top of that, by another same skater.
Oh yes, he is expected to smile and let it go and act like a role model.

 

[kittyjake5]

No, it would have to be peeps.

My bad, I heard that they have purple peeps now.