Where are the quads in pairs’ figure skating?

[Sylvia]

Where are the quads in pairs’ figure skating?

At the 2015 World Figure Skating Championships in Shanghai, five of the top seven pair teams attempted a quad element in their free skates, but a pair hasn't done a quad in three years. So, why aren’t pairs trying quad twists and throws anymore?

olympics.nbcsports.com

At the 2021 World Championships in Stockholm last week, no pair tried a quad twist or throw. Ditto in 2019. You have to go back to the 2018 World Championships in Milan, when Yevgenia Tarasova and Vladimir Morozov did a quadruple twist in their silver medal free skate, for the last time a pair did a quad at worlds.
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So, why aren’t pairs trying quad twists and throws anymore?

 

[Carolla5501]

Oh no. US pairs can barely land a triple - we will never get a quad.

 

[Aceon6]

Didn’t the ISU set points relatively low vs. triples so that it was no longer worth it?

 

[yeslek]

Oh no. US pairs can barely land a triple - we will never get a quad.

They aren’t talking about side by side jumps...

 

[pat c]

https://usfigureskating.org/sites/default/files/media-files/Scoring%20Cheat%20Sheet.pdf

Risk/reward. The chance of injury is high, either in comp or training. Safer to do the triples and the point spread doesn't make it worth the risk. ymmv

 

[Carolla5501]

They aren’t talking about side by side jumps...

Have you seem how shaky a lot of US pairs look on throws?

 

[Bulletsdad]

I believe Lakernik was instrumental in keeping base values low for throw quads because they were being attempted by the Canadians and Chinese.

 

[Lilia A]

Where are the quads in pair skating? Here https://www.instagram.com/p/CM9VBrPIHW3/
But, which of the two would be doing the lifting? They're almost the same size.

In all honesty, I'd love to see throw quads (more so that quad twists, most quad twists have a heavy dismount) but only if the athletes can really do them safely. I think what would need to happen is for a pair equivalent to Hanyu/Jin/Chen or Trusova to make their way into the competitive scene. You know, a pair attempting elements so difficult that others will have to up the game. The then current seniors won't be able to catch up, but younger pair skaters will begin preparing for these elements early on. Of course, if this does happen, I hope pairs are careful and don't rush learning these elements. Falls on throw jumps (at least the big throw jumps) are hard enough already.

Now, side by side quads? That'd be interesting too. Right now, anyone with a consistent quad would be competitive in singles (at least the women, but men too if they have good elements), but it could happen that we get to a point where having just a quad toe won't be enough to do well in singles. I'm talking a loooong time from now, so don't come for me. Pair up two young skaters who can do a consistent quad, make sure they learn good pair elements, and there's you have sbs quads. I'm all for it, to be honest.

 

[aliceanne]

I thought the Knierims had a quad twist at one time. Then she got injured and has now started over with Fraser.

Other than Rena Inouye and Alijona Savchenko has anyone done throw triple axels in competition?

The only quad throw I have seen in competition was when Hao Zhang threw Dan Zhang into the boards at 2006 Olympics. I don’t think anyone wants to see that again.

Even if a skater like Hanyu or Nathan chose pairs I doubt they could perform overhead lifts. Quads and overhead lifts require different physiques.

 

[tony]

I thought the Knierims had a quad twist at one time. Then she got injured and has now started over with Fraser.

Other than Rena Inouye and Alijona Savchenko has anyone done throw triple axels in competition?

The only quad throw I have seen in competition was when Hao Zhang threw Dan Zhang into the boards at 2006 Olympics. I don’t think anyone wants to see that again.

You saw plenty of throw 4S from Duhamel/Radford if you watched in the 2015-2018 Olympic cycle.

Vise/Trent, an American pair, were the first to land the throw 4 of any kind, a 4S at Trophee Eric Bompard 2007 and a Canadian pair, Miller/Moram also tried it unsuccessfully in the same competition. But we saw attempts at throw quads from skaters like Kazakova/Dmitriev, Ding/Ren in juniors, and even Shen/Zhao prior to that.

Considering Duhamel and former partner Ryan Arnold were the first skaters to land a throw 3Lz in 2005, the turn-around rate for the throw 3A and throw 4S was remarkable. Also, Abitbol/Bernadis were trying throw 3A in the late 90's/2000.

 

[Cherub721]

Don't forget Kavaguti/Smirnov - the first pair to land two quad throws in one program at 2015 CoC (loop and sal).

Obertas/Slavnov did a quad twist when Moskvina was coaching them. I want to say 2004-2005 season. They also were one of the first pairs doing a throw triple flip (along with Orscher & Lucash) and they did 3 sets of sbs triple toes (Zayak rule was added for pairs in the 2005-2006 season). Sad that she lost her will to jump after that season.

Castelli/Shnapir also tried a quad throw in Sochi and got very close.

 

[Vash01]

Don't forget Kavaguti/Smirnov - the first pair to land two quad throws in one program at 2015 CoC (loop and sal).

Obertas/Slavnov did a quad twist when Moskvina was coaching them. I want to say 2004-2005 season. They also were one of the first pairs doing a throw triple flip (along with Orscher & Lucash) and they did 3 sets of sbs triple toes (Zayak rule was added for pairs in the 2005-2006 season). Sad that she lost her will to jump after that season.

Castelli/Shnapir also tried a quad throw in Sochi and got very close.

Duhamel Radford used to land two quads in their LP.
kawaguti Smirnoff was the only other pair that did two quads.

After these two pairs retired nobody wanted to try quad throws.

S&Z tried quad salchow in their LP in 2002 Olympics. Xue Shen landed it for a nanosecond then she went down.

T&M had a quad twist until 2018 but they removed it and they now do just a level 4 split triple with a high GOE.

 

[Orm Irian]

James/Cipres did a throw quad salchow until 2018, then dialed back. Too high an injury risk, not enough reward.

 

[overedge]

I'm really tired of sports journalists who think that multi-rotational jumps are the most important thing in skating, and that something is wrong with the sport if those aren't being done. Pairs is about two skaters moving in unison or in harmony, not just about jumping.

 

[Marco]

Sui & Han used to do the throw 4sal in their Cowboy program. I don't think they have attempted it again since they grew up and was seem to be the artistic pair.

 

[yeslek]

Have you seem how shaky a lot of US pairs look on throws?

Knierims had a quad twist and Deanna/Nate were working on a quad throw.

 

[syzygy]

Didn’t the ISU set points relatively low vs. triples so that it was no longer worth it?

Yep. Not worth it at all with how much strain it puts on the body.

 

[SmallFairy]

G/G did the quad twist, but stopped as they didn’t feel they were rewarded for it. Some judges couldn’t even see it was a quad.
T/M has also done a quad twist IIRC.

Inoue/Baldwin did the throw 3a also.

I applaud high difficulty in pairs, as it’s after all a sport, but pairs are not singles, and my personal opinion is that unison, skating with the same pace, rhythm, skating as one, having really good quality pairs elements should be rewarded more. ISU should emphasise what’s special and difficult for pairs, not two single skaters skating next to each other. To me, the countless non-unison sbs spins shown at Worlds recently is a good example. Yes, they’re difficult, but they’re ugly and gives no feeling of good pairs skating. I’d rather see more basic positions, but done well.

So, quads in pairs... lots of pairs should work other skills instead of quads, for me they’re not necessary.

 

[marie1616]

Honestly I find a triple throw from a pair like Volosozhar/Trankov, Savchenko/Massot or Tarasova/Morozov far more exiting and beautiful than the quad throws Duhamel/Radford did. I think the discipline must improve on is consistency, more difficult jumps and more intricate choreography like we saw from Savchenko and the Chinese pairs.

 

[Spiralgraph]

Way back in 1983-84 Kitty and Peter Carruthers were training a throw quad salchow. It wasn't consistent enough to actually put it in a program though (I think the success rate was around 30%.)