The Shibutanis Thread 4: Ready for Paradise

I'm just afraid that this will create some sort of mental block for them. They worked so hard to regain the confidence and competitive toughness after years of being lost with the judges. I'd hate for them to start to doubt themselves now and regress. They don't need to turn into me, :lol:.

I do wonder if they need to rethink the FD a bit. Many of us loved it at Skate America and thought it was a great building block to something great, but it's not quite reaching some others the way it should and I hate for them to have to work so hard to make it work. I still think the potential is there but I also think the first half still needs something more to make it a masterpiece. They need more images, highlights, shapes with their movement in that first half. That second half really works and despite the level 2, I think the second half of their diagonal footwork really works and is well-choreographed. I just want the first half of the program to be as interesting to watch as the second. Marina is supposed to be the finishing coach, and Massimo knows good choreography as it wasn't that long ago when he competed. They need to figure it out fast and Marina needs to prove she's worth her reputation and give the Shibs everything she has NOW. Stop taking such a back seat and making the Shibs do everything by themselves like they had to do for the past 3 seasons, it's time to be a coach and really help them make a champion's package now.
 
They did a lot of work on it between RC & SA. I expect they'll do more work on it in the weeks leading up to Nationals.
I'm not that worried about it. Maybe I used my worry on my other faves at GPF, but for whatever reason I'm confident they will be ready to compete in a month with an even better FD.
 
I'm just afraid that this will create some sort of mental block for them. They worked so hard to regain the confidence and competitive toughness after years of being lost with the judges. I'd hate for them to start to doubt themselves now and regress. They don't need to turn into me, :lol:.

I do wonder if they need to rethink the FD a bit. Many of us loved it at Skate America and thought it was a great building block to something great, but it's not quite reaching some others the way it should and I hate for them to have to work so hard to make it work. I still think the potential is there but I also think the first half still needs something more to make it a masterpiece. They need more images, highlights, shapes with their movement in that first half. That second half really works and despite the level 2, I think the second half of their diagonal footwork really works and is well-choreographed. I just want the first half of the program to be as interesting to watch as the second. Marina is supposed to be the finishing coach, and Massimo knows good choreography as it wasn't that long ago when he competed. They need to figure it out fast and Marina needs to prove she's worth her reputation and give the Shibs everything she has NOW. Stop taking such a back seat and making the Shibs do everything by themselves like they had to do for the past 3 seasons, it's time to be a coach and really help them make a champion's package now.

I agree. The first half of the FD is beautiful but it could be so much more. The circular step sequences is big and impressive but doesn’t contribute much to the program choreographically, whereas other teams have a lot of storytelling or choreographic significance in both step sequences to the point that you don’t even remember it’s an element. They’re secure on the technique so I think it’s time to get the choreography to really work the music and match the storyline/concept more effectively.
 
Yeah, doing a giant circular footwork sequence is impressive in terms of ice coverage but it isn't adding much to the program or people's impression of it. They should work on a smaller pattern but playing around with the shape and direction the way the Montreal teams do and adding more actual dance and storytelling in it. The problem is that I'm not confident in Marina's ability to do that as she's rightfully criticized for having generic footwork sequences.
 
Many vocal people on social media and here seem to really want the Shibs to be dethroned, don't they? Or at least have their success be delegitimized in some way.
 
Many vocal people on social media and here seem to really want the Shibs to be dethroned, don't they? Or at least have their success be delegitimized in some way.
I wouldn't doubt there's some overlap there.

It stinks that the Shibs had an off competition, but it happens. Remember that time that Charlie White fell like 3 times in one dance? If anything I see Nationals as being more reserved and controlled skating. I thought they had been looking much more free in their skating this season (something I had seen them criticized for in the past), but we all know that can lead to more mistakes sometimes. I expect them to be more cautious perhaps, but they can still come out on top that way. Hope they take some time to recharge and look amazing at Nats!
 
Luckily most vocal =/= majority. I think most people actually really like the Shibs, as in people who aren't hard core skating fans. People outside of the skating world/forums.

One of my friends, who is a skating fan (mainly ladies) and works for Minnesota Public Radio, put the ShibSibs as one of the things she wanted to talk about during the holiday season (and not Garrison Kellior, LOL). I thought it was cute.
 
Honestly I think it depends who you follow and what (if any) searches you do.

Most of the people I follow love them to pieces and they're favourite Olympic concept is Shibs as Champions, so it really just depends on who you surround yourself with. Today, I fell down a Twitter conspiracy rabbit hole and the V/M and P/C stans were crazy, I got out of that real fast.
 
Many vocal people on social media and here seem to really want the Shibs to be dethroned, don't they? Or at least have their success be delegitimized in some way.

The Shibs are no strangers to some loud people wanting them to fail and disappear from skating. If they’d listened they would’ve quit skating before 2015. But they also clearly have many impressive people in their corner, like Ben Agosto with his very low-key defense there. Not to mention that story of Volosozhar and Trankov convincing them to continue, and all their other mentors and supporters outside of their coaching staff. And their legions of fans on twitter and Instagram leaving all those loving and encouraging comments.:)

I think they know by now what to listen to and what to ignore.
 
I wasn't going to respond to that tweet, but I saw that twit's other tweets and couldn't resist. Of course that person is a TSL fan as well. TSL aka Dave and Jonathan have been on a mission to destroy the Shibs for a while. I'm going take a break from twitter now.
 
I'm on Twitter, mainly for professional reasons, and I don't bother with skating twitter. People are just dumb there for the most part.

[I feel kind of guilty making you go there VGT!]
 
Many vocal people on social media and here seem to really want the Shibs to be dethroned, don't they? Or at least have their success be delegitimized in some way.
Everyone has their favorites, serious fans love to argue about points, and it gets heated. It's normal IMO. Look how many detractors P/C have had in the past few years, for example, but now they are Beethoven's spiritual children. (Sorry, that particular comment got under my skin. This isn't my favorite of their FDs, obviously.) I agree that the Shibs know how to handle the negative stuff. Probably they don't read it in the first place (I hope).

I think the Shibs' FD depends a lot on how perfectly and passionately they skate it. It can be spell-binding but the music doesn't do a lot to carry them, so it's all on their performance. I hope they're not cautious at Nats.

And I don't think they are the type to get mental blocks. Especially not now, not after SA. They know this was a fluke and while we don't know the cause, they do. Probably something temporary (as our resident intern suggests). :)
 
I love the Shibs! They will go back home and rework things. They need that WOW moment, and their best WOW moments are their twizzles. Their twizzles from Fix You were the best. I loved the audience's reaction, clapping and cheering, it was stunning and breathtaking to watch! Maybe incorporate a little more Fix You music, added into their twizzle section?
 
The biggest thing for them I think is just to brush off GPF like it never happened and go into Nationals with the confidence that SA gave them. I don’t want them to get tentative or cautious because they had one bad competition after such an amazing couple of Grand prix outings. SA showed them that when they come out guns blazing and skate freely, the results will follow.

I still think the Shibs are the only American team that can actually challenge P/C and V/M instead of settling for a safe bronze.
 
I hope they change back the straight line too, I thought it was a fabulous lift and Maia's free leg coming out of it was so clean.

Anyway the male commentator did not commentate last night for ELTA. Instead the regular female commentator was there with another female commentator. Link to the full FD here. They didn't really say much, they mentioned Alex's mistake on the twizzles. They said that since they are a sibling pair, they don't do romantic programs but both commentators said that they still think that the Shibs have stellar chemistry/connection on ice because they've worked together for so long. They said that over the years they've improved a lot and are usually pretty solid but today they faced a little difficulty. Nothing particularly negative.
Hahaha the Chinese NFL ad was really funny to watch. (Are they really trying to make it happen over there that hard? Maybe they should explain it with more than Chinese subtitles) I really need to get back to learning Chinese. I can understand some of this commentary, but not too too much. What are the Chinese terms for the various dance elements - I know them for singles, but not for dance.

But back to the Shibs, for whatever reason I feel this program doesn't quite have the emotion of Fix You. I do like it, but something just seems off, particularly in the GPF performance. The awkward cut before the twizzles certainly makes the build seem more artificial and less building with the flow of the program.
I hope they figure it out - I think this could be a great program if they perform it like they did for Fix You. I love their music choice for a sibling team.
 
I love the Shibs! They will go back home and rework things. They need that WOW moment, and their best WOW moments are their twizzles. Their twizzles from Fix You were the best. I loved the audience's reaction, clapping and cheering, it was stunning and breathtaking to watch! Maybe incorporate a little more Fix You music, added into their twizzle section?

The first time I watched their program I did not understand the twizzles, their place in the program and being the same as in Fix you program but now paying attention it works really well. The program starts ¨When she was just a girl she expected the world¨ she looking happy and with hopes, so quickly and with Alex´s help they get a part of her dream https://www.instagram.com/p/BcC7glTFzcX/?tagged=maiashibutani, but then the song saying ¨Stuck in reverse¨ and she goes in reverse to Alex´s back (they need that lift again for Nationals) https://youtu.be/TjuDkzBvHKA?t=150 because after worlds 2011 they reversed their early success. For people saying that acrobatic lifts are not coherent, I think this is the most coherent lift of the season . And they work hard the next seasons after 2011 to make a comeback and it show up with their twizzles https://youtu.be/dPXTvY-np64?t=174, those Fix you twizzles https://youtu.be/Fhb323seOkM?t=179 because that was the iconic element of that program and because that program was the breakthrough moment to get at the top again, and the mood of the pogram changes to a triumphant moment, lik they are living their paradise now. In SA the twizzles got a big reaction, it was amazing, I like as their twizzles and the whole program are designed.

And I think we should not take their performance in GPF as a reference, because it is clear that they were not skating to their potential.
 
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I prefer the original straight line lift to this one https://youtu.be/gAxw8ZJsLDc?t=136, I wonder if they changed it just because of their current condition or if they decided it just after Skate America. Today that lift got lower points (SA 5.87, GPF 5.79)
I cannot understand such a small difference in the score of those two lifts! Can anyone explain it? It's almost enough to make someone say, oh, just do the easier lift and save yourselves for the twizzles, it's only .08 point difference!
 
I cannot understand such a small difference in the score of those two lifts! Can anyone explain it? It's almost enough to make someone say, oh, just do the easier lift and save yourselves for the twizzles, it's only .08 point difference!

They have done that lift better on other occasions, Alex especially looking safer, so maybe they could score higher if they decide to keep it for the Nationals, you know, both are L4 after all. But I think the other lift works better for the whole picture of the program, and is a new lift.
 
Sending a big hug to Maia & Alex today.

But I think the other lift works better for the whole picture of the program, and is a new lift.

Oh, I agree. I call the new lift the "pop-up lift," and I feel it really suits the program. Because Paradise is the story of their dreams, and that point in the program is about the difficult years they had after starting out so spectacularly. So the pop-up lift is a great fit for the program because the first portion was a highlight element for them during that difficult portion of their career and the new exit--diving downward--shows the plunge of those dreams after that extraordinarily high start. Then later we come to the Fix You/Redemption part of the program. My guess is that the change of lift since SA was shooting for GOE, and I guess it was worth a try; but I hope they will return to the new pop-up lift. That portion of the program is so vital for the whole feel of "Paradise." The difficulties & obstacles within their lives & their story. That is what gives the rest of the program power. The difficulties are what people relate to and connect with within a story. The lows make stronger highs and build toward that spectacular climax. It's a really beautiful program. I love the flight motif within all the elements. I think the transitions could be more purposeful, but I really love the way the elements worked together at Skate America. I've watched it again and again and again since then.
 
Golden skate article https://goldenskate.com/2017/12/2017-gpf-ice-dance/

“Today was not the performance that we wanted to have unfortunately,” said Alex Shibutani. “We feel pretty good this week overall and there was a lot of stuff to make progress, but I just had issues on the twizzles this week, which is uncharacteristic. We know what we need to work on. I’m not too worried about it. You need to do your best every time and have a clean strong program. I wasn’t able to deliver what I know that we are capable of. It’s just disappointing right now.

“I think it’s completely understandable the way we feel, because we work very hard,” added Maia Shibutani. “As an athlete, you go out there and do your best. We train very hard and believe, and as Alex mentioned, we need to get back to work and move forward.”

Gala https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQY2BG0s7pw (again twizzles problems), well, at least people will not take their twizzles for granted anymore.
 
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Golden skate article https://goldenskate.com/2017/12/2017-gpf-ice-dance/

“Today was not the performance that we wanted to have unfortunately,” said Alex Shibutani. “We feel pretty good this week overall and there was a lot of stuff to make progress, but I just had issues on the twizzles this week, which is uncharacteristic. We know what we need to work on. I’m not too worried about it. You need to do your best every time and have a clean strong program. I wasn’t able to deliver what I know that we are capable of. It’s just disappointing right now.

“I think it’s completely understandable the way we feel, because we work very hard,” added Maia Shibutani. “As an athlete, you go out there and do your best. We train very hard and believe, and as Alex mentioned, we need to get back to work and move forward.”

Gala https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQY2BG0s7pw (again twizzles problems), well, at least people will not take their twizzles for granted anymore.

Great point! If...no, when they hit those twizzles at Nationals in both the SD and FD, the reaction will be celebration of joy and I bet those GOEs will come because the judges have been reminded exactly just how great the Shibs' twizzles are and not to expect more from them than they do for every other team.
 
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Great point! If...no, when they hit those twizzles at Nationals in both the SD and FD, the reaction will be celebration of joy and I bet those GOEs will come because the judges have been reminded exactly just how great the Shibs' twizzles are and not expect more from them than they do for every other team.

There is a silver lining to everything. I’m a big believer in that cliche saying that everything happens for a reason. :)

I’m glad Alex isn’t too worried and is already looking ahead to the future. It’s easy to tell he feels responsible and is disappointed, which is perfectly natural and he should definitely let himself feel it and express it, but then you have to put things in perspective and not let it interfere with your goals. I hope he also gives himself credit for everything he did right this week too and what he managed to accomplish together with Maia despite difficult circumstances.
 

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