The Bear vs The Man in the Woods Choice

Prancer

Chitarrista
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Reasons I've seen for picking the bear
1. Only 3 women are killed by a bear each year
2. If attacked by a bear, no one would ask what you were wearing, did you have too much to drink, etc?
3. A bear would see you as a human being and are more predictable
4. A bear wouldn't attack you for some sick fantasy

It's an exercise in understanding misogyny and the fear women feel all the time
Yes, I understand that perfectly. But if the bear does not present a threat, there is no point to the question. Of course everyone would choose a bear if the bear was just going to be there existing--which is why the reasons you list include the possibility of being attacked by a bear.
 

Sparks

Well-Known Member
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15,319
Agreed. Now we can talk about the experience of being attacked by a man, which women really know about
 

Cachoo

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Agreed. Now we can talk about the experience of being attacked by a man, which women really know about
I mean the numbers aren’t robust for a bear attack. And rape isn’t ever an issue with them. It has been several years but I remember a study of American male collegians who were asked if they might rape a woman if there would never be consequences. A third of them said yes. It actually might be easier to hoot and holler and drive the bear away.
 

misskarne

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23,478
Yes, I understand that perfectly. But if the bear does not present a threat, there is no point to the question. Of course everyone would choose a bear if the bear was just going to be there existing--which is why the reasons you list include the possibility of being attacked by a bear.
I think you have missed the point, though.

A bear generally will not attack, it's just chilling there, right? Plus, they don't get provoked to attack because they feel like it, or their fragile ego got hurt, or because they feel entitled.

But a bear will always be a bear, and you can trust it to be a bear and do bear things.

A man is a total wildcard. He might be nice. But you absolutely cannot count on that and he is not able to be trusted because you simply do not know.
 

Prancer

Chitarrista
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I think you have missed the point, though.

A bear generally will not attack, it's just chilling there, right? Plus, they don't get provoked to attack because they feel like it, or their fragile ego got hurt, or because they feel entitled.

But a bear will always be a bear, and you can trust it to be a bear and do bear things.

A man is a total wildcard. He might be nice. But you absolutely cannot count on that and he is not able to be trusted because you simply do not know.
How stupid do you think I am? If a man had written that post, I would call it mansplaining.

The point, unless I am an idiot, is that men are more dangerous than bears. But this only makes sense if the bears are dangerous.

The question posed asks women to choose between a bear and a man for the rhetorical purpose of demonstrating that women find strange men very threatening.

Let's say we measure threats on a scale of 0 to 10, with zero being no threat and 10 being terrifying.

If the bear poses no threat and there is no risk of attack, the bear is a zero. The man, then, needs only to be a 1 to be more frightening than the bear.

This would mean that the strange man would make a woman a hair nervous, perhaps.

But if the bear is an 8, then the man has to be at least a 9 on the threat scale, which is why the question asks about a bear and not a bunny rabbit. And that's why women choose the bear (because that's the point) and why (some) men are insulted that women choose the bear.

And so if you want to discuss why women choose the bear, you have to begin by understanding that the bear presents a major threat--regardless of what might happen with a literal bear.

I do understand rhetoric, if nothing else.
 

my little pony

polishing Madison Hubbell's OGM
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I wish I could find the tickety tock from the lady who I think is some sort of electrical line workier I think in the pacific NW whose job requires her to choose bears or men every day and she chooses the bears every day but im elderly just spent a really long time looking.
 

MacMadame

Doing all the things
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I saw a TikTok by a guy with lots of stats about how men are more dangerous than bears but I think you can't look at raw data that way. It's not how many bears attack people vs. men, it's how many encounters people have with bears per bear attacks. I have had millions of interactions with men I don't know. I have never had an interaction with a bear.

Anyway, I don't think it matters. It's not about logic and data. It's about fear which is an emotion.
 

leilaofpaper

Well-Known Member
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I think the whole point of this is there shouldn’t be a single woman who picks the bear, and yet many of us do.

We shouldn’t have a society where women expect to be attacked by men.

It’s also especially hitting home here in Australia where we have a domestic violence crisis, and increasing amounts of women are being killed by current or former partners.
 

susan6

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I mean the numbers aren’t robust for a bear attack. And rape isn’t ever an issue with them. It has been several years but I remember a study of American male collegians who were asked if they might rape a woman if there would never be consequences. A third of them said yes. It actually might be easier to hoot and holler and drive the bear away.
Yeah, I remember being horrified by that study. And it connects to this survey because the hypothetical situation is a woman alone in the forest with a guy. So, it's a guy who knows he can get away with it because there's no witnesses, he's stronger than her, and she won't be believed. So you figure a high proportion of men may try something. Yeah, I'll take the bear.
 

my little pony

polishing Madison Hubbell's OGM
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Yeah, I remember being horrified by that study. And it connects to this survey because the hypothetical situation is a woman alone in the forest with a guy. So, it's a guy who knows he can get away with it because there's no witnesses, he's stronger than her, and she won't be believed. So you figure a high proportion of men may try something. Yeah, I'll take the bear.
I've been to two rape trials. one someone was drugged at a work conference and the entire thing was on surveillance. the other was near the all the historic buildings downtown and the entire thing was on security camera. they both still got away with it.
 

MacMadame

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I've been to two rape trials. one someone was drugged at a work conference and the entire thing was on surveillance. the other was near the all the historic buildings downtown and the entire thing was on security camera. they both still got away with it.
I want to be shocked but I'm not.

I also want to pick the man because I know statistically I'm more likely to be harmed by someone I know and I have no experience dealing with bears some of which can't really be dealt with (it doesn't say if it's a grizzly or polar bear), but I have this emotional reaction whenever I start to say Man that makes me think I've picked wrong.
 

skategal

Bunny mama
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I have never had an interaction with a bear.
You probably have and don’t know it.

Bears are normally more scared of us than we are of them and keep away from humans. We have lived smack dab in the middle of bear country for 24 years and have only seen them a couple of times. But we see their evidence.

I get the point of the question but in some way I think it’s a a bit dumb.

Maybe I’m immune because I’m used to having bears around but I can’t conjure up the fear of the bear that I’m supposed to have for this question?
 

MacMadame

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You probably have and don’t know it.
I don't think that's possible by definition. If a bear was near me but I didn't know about it, how can you say I interacted with it? I have seen bears from inside a house when at Lake Tahoe but I didn't interact with the bear.
 

skategal

Bunny mama
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12,111
I don't think that's possible by definition. If a bear was near me but I didn't know about it, how can you say I interacted with it? I have seen bears from inside a house when at Lake Tahoe but I didn't interact with the bear.
I guess I was defining “interaction” as a bear being around you in nature somewhere but you are not aware it is there but the bear knows you are there.

Maybe “interaction” is not the right word but “encounter” is not right either.

Maybe “presence” is the word I mean.
 

Prancer

Chitarrista
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The question has nothing to do with real bears or how real bears behave or anything about actual bears.

If you don't consider a bear threatening, substitute something you do consider threatening. That's the actual point of the question, not bears. Instead of being in the woods with a bear or a strange man, make it a jungle with a big snake or a bobcat or anything that you consider threatening. Is it more or less threatening than a man you do not know?
 

Cachoo

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The question has nothing to do with real bears or how real bears behave or anything about actual bears.

If you don't consider a bear threatening, substitute something you do consider threatening. That's the actual point of the question, not bears. Instead of being in the woods with a bear or a strange man, make it a jungle with a big snake or a bobcat or anything that you consider threatening. Is it more or less threatening than a man you do not know?
Ok so you meet a honey badger in the woods…
 

MacMadame

Doing all the things
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Ok so you meet a honey badger in the woods…
Sea lions. Canadian Geese. Both nasty. Though I'm actually more afraid of cows. Not one cow but a herd. I've seen them stampede and you aren't going to survive that if you can't get out of the way. Anyway...

The thing is, I get the question. It's two choices that could end badly including being killed (or not), but you won't know until you get there.
 

once_upon

Better off than 2020
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To me the question is surrounding the physical/emotional pain of attack.

If I'm attacked by a bear, I'm unlikely to survive it will be a painful death but it's over. If I'm attacked by a man, the i.may or may not be killed. But if I do survive, I am harmed emotional for life, probably shamed for life, feel unworthy for life, may have to interact with the man for life.

The man who raped a young college student I know, she reported the rape immediately to campus police and police, watches her rapist get elected and serve on the city council. No repercussions because of his actions. She however has been so traumatized by it, the hospital visit, the police investigation-she doesn't seek medical care for routine gyn care.
 

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