Tarasova/Morozov Cheer Thread

I lurk on fso with google translate. This was posted in T/M’s thread there, but no source was given.

Maxim Trankov:
- First of all, I need to congratulate my opponents - Artur Leonidovich Minchuk and, of course, Tamara Nikolaevna Moskvina, with such an achievement - the debutants of the World Championship won the tournament ... Of course, Sergei Voronov and I are upset. This season, Zhenya didn’t give us reason to doubt, and here in warm-ups and trainings everything was fine, and what happens during the skating is still not clear to anyone, we need to figure it out.
What remains for us is to work. What do coaches usually do? They work. Of all my many professions, I have not yet mastered the profession of a psychologist.
I think this is only psychology, Zhenya jumps a sheepskin coat so that you can teach a quadruple - this is a gorgeous, beautiful, big jump, with a margin. What happens when people perform, I don't know yet. A person needs to understand himself, but specialists should also help - you need to discuss, talk, find a solution. On the one hand, if we won at least some medal, I could be satisfied, but staying with a wooden one is not great happiness.
Then there will be a tour with the show of Eteri Tutberidze, then a short vacation and staging of new programs. How next I don’t know - you need to get together and talk. I also do not relieve myself of responsibility - maybe the guys have questions for me, all this needs to be discussed. I can’t fly to the USA yet - I don’t have a visa yet, but they will most likely stage programs with Marina Zueva.
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Edit: Someone posted a link https://tass.ru/sport/10999289

Edit 2: I thought I was done crying, but then Tatiana posted this and the line at the end about how she’s sure their medals are still waiting on them. ?

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aka_gerbil said:
I think sometimes, judges tend to pick on certain skaters more than others and seem to hold them to a higher standard, particularly when it's an especially gifted team. I think T/M fall into this category. It feels like others sometimes get more grace from the judging and tech panels than T/M do when we're talking similar mistakes.
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My coach once told me this very thing. She said, essentially: If you are a weaker skater and do your best, then the judges will see that and reward you. But if you are a stronger skater, and they see that you are capable of doing more, then they will be harder on you for the same type of performance. Because they expect more out of you.
 
Cherub721 said:
I hate to hope that they are ill but I really don't want them to be snubbed, either :(
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There was a clip on Instagram of them watching the men’s fs in the arena. It seems unlikely they’d be out and about if ill.

I think they were supposed to have a new gala program too. :(
 
Shoma Uno isn't in the gala either, and he finished 4th in men. It may be about not having too many skaters of one nationality per discipline. Japan had two medalists in men, and Russia had two in pairs, and those are the two where the 4th place skaters aren't in the gala.
 
I felt so sad that they didn’t medal here but still have high hopes for them for next year. I heard Mozer is back coaching full time now. Maybe they should return to her? It seemed that Evgenia lost her confidence after leaving Mozer.
 
Mozer was the one who set them adrift in the first place by saying after Pyeongchang they were no longer interesting to her. I also think a fair amount of blame falls at her feet for not teaching them how to handle pressure.
 
aka_gerbil said:
Mozer was the one who set them adrift in the first place by saying after Pyeongchang they were no longer interesting to her. I also think a fair amount of blame falls at her feet for not teaching them how to handle pressure.
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She practically ignored them throughout. she was vested in the other Russian pairs, particularly Stolbova Klimov even when their injury issues became serious. T&M were Promising. She found a Diamond inT&M but she threw it away as a piece of rock. I will never forgive Mozer for wasting their best years.
 
Before V/T, Mozer was more known as a coach for juniors. V/T were well established pair skaters when they got together, they didn't need as much of a hands-on coach and she was a good overseer for them. Once she got well known for V/T and S/K, whose success in Sochi was definitely a surprise for many people, she got a probably undeserved reputation as a pairs guru. She has an eye for good pairings, but is a terrible packager.

She's been talking shit about T/M for years. Even when she said she didn't care about them anymore and was more interested in pairs she swore would take over the world but never materialized, Evgenia still wanted her back, which is how she showed up at 2019 Worlds. She's still slagging them off in the press, and so far neither Zhenya or Vova have mentioned her much recently.

Illnesses and quarantines and injuries just never stopped for them in the past year. Max is about to have a second kid, he's not going to be able to be their coach/choreographer/cheerleader/travel buddy like he had to be this season. They need to get to Marina and hopefully find a sense of stability there for the sake of their mental health. She's been around forever and has dealt with literally everything a coach could possibly go through. That's the most 'stable' thing I could think of right now. Trying to find another coaching situation at this point seems kind of useless.

Moskvina would never take them in a million years. Her 'style' is having two high calibre pairs that she pits against each other to make them both more competitive. She's already got that, obviously. :lol: Who would be left at that point? Vassiliev is working kind of exclusively with the BLR fed right now, the Velikov grandson is untested with established senior pairs, and I just can't imagine them moving to Perm to try with Sliusarenko - - pretty much in the same category as Vasily Velikov in the established pairs department. Going to a non-Russian coach is media suicide in Russia. Pairs don't get nearly the number of invitations as singles, so any 'blight' on their image could damage their show careers in the future (if that's what they want to do)
 
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Amy L said:
Before V/T, Mozer was more known as a coach for juniors. V/T were well established pair skaters when they got together, they didn't need as much of a hands-on coach and she was a good overseer for them. Once she got well known for V/T and S/K, whose success in Sochi was definitely a surprise for many people, she got a probably undeserved reputation as a pairs guru. She has an eye for good pairings, but is a terrible packager.

She's been talking shit about T/M for years. Even when she said she didn't care about them anymore and was more interested in pairs she swore would take over the world but never materialized, Evgenia still wanted her back, which is how she showed up at 2019 Worlds. She's still slagging them off in the press, and so far neither Zhenya or Vova haven't mentioned her much recently.

Illnesses and quarantines and injuries just never stopped for them in the past year. Max is about to have a second kid, he's not going to be able to be their coach/choreographer/cheerleader/travel buddy like he had to be this season. They need to get to Marina and hopefully find a sense of stability there for the sake of their mental health. She's been around forever and has dealt with literally everything a coach could possibly go through. That's the most 'stable' thing I could think of right now. Trying to find another coaching situation at this point seems kind of useless.

Moskvina would never take them in a million years. Her 'style' is having two high calibre pairs that she pits against each other to make them both more competitive. She's already got that, obviously. :lol: Who would be left at that point? Vassiliev is working kind of exclusively with the BLR fed right now, the Velikov grandson is untested with established senior pairs, and I just can't imagine them moving to Perm to try with Sliusarenko - - pretty much in the same category as Vasily Velikov in the established pairs department. Going to a non-Russian coach is media suicide in Russia. Pairs don't get nearly the number of invitations as singles, so any 'blight' on their image could damage their show careers in the future (if that's what they want to do)
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You may be right about Moskvina. Had they gone to her in 2016 it could have been a different story. It is too late now.

What worries me about Marina is Florida. The political situation there is unhealthy. The Governor doesn't care about masks, social distancing, and they will have to travel internationally a lot. They need to be healthy. They need stability badly, but I would rather they not go to the Velikovs. They had a few world champions (P&T, S&N) but never an Olympic champ. Anton Sikharulidze moved from Velikova to Moskvina and had great success.

I absolutely don't want them to go to Mozer. By process of elimination they may not have a choice but to go to Marina. They may need to hire a sports psychologist. May be even an American. This mental collapse after every success has become a pattern and it must change, particularly for Zhenya.
 
The comments that Mozer made in that last interview she did were horrible. I actually wondered if Mozer purposely wanted to rattle Evgenia right before worlds and undo every bit of confidence she had seemed to regain this season. It’s like she holds a personal grudge against them for Pyeongchang and uses every opportunity she can to bring it up.

I also think Mozer was not happy when T/M surpassed S/K. When they first turned senior, they were supposed to be the hope for 2022. S/K were supposed to be 2018, and it felt to me instead of helping T/M adapt to that new role, Mozer preferred for try to grab on to their ankles to hold them back so they wouldn’t mess up her pecking order.

Like I said earlier, my feelings on Marina are complicated and that has a lot to do with things that happened in ice dance what is a long time ago now. It is true she has experienced everything as a coach, but I just wish she had more recent experience with pairs. Granted, it’s not like she’s really actually gotten a fair trial to see what she could really do with them between Evgenia’s leg injury and then YNW turning the world upside down. It probably is the best available situation when everything is all laid out, but I wish there was something absolutely perfect for them.
 
aka_gerbil said:
I also think Mozer was not happy when T/M surpassed S/K. When they first turned senior, they were supposed to be the hope for 2022. S/K were supposed to be 2018, and it felt to me instead of helping T/M adapt to that new role, Mozer preferred for try to grab on to their ankles to hold them back so they wouldn’t mess up her pecking order.
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I will forever think that she gave T&M an LP that was meant to not overshadow S&K who were her #1s. And if we look back at 2014, when she took on S&K she did not give them a new LP (although Addam's Family worked out well for them) and she told them upfront her main focus was V&T for the Olympics. She also had a really weird grudge against Bazarova and broke up that pair at the end of the season to get Larionov for Zabijako.

Moskvina doesn't do this type of thing. She gives both pairs good programs and the tools to win. This is why B&K are mad at her right now.

Marina has no conflicts of interest right now so I don't think she'd sabotage them. The main issues are the travel and the question of whether she has a team in place that really knows pairs.
 
Cherub721 said:
I will forever think that she gave T&M an LP that was meant to not overshadow S&K who were her #1s. And if we look back at 2014, when she took on S&K she did not give them a new LP (although Addam's Family worked out well for them) and she told them upfront her main focus was V&T for the Olympics. She also had a really weird grudge against Bazarova and broke up that pair at the end of the season to get Larionov for Zabijako.

Moskvina doesn't do this type of thing. She gives both pairs good programs and the tools to win. This is why B&K are mad at her right now.

Marina has no conflicts of interest right now so I don't think she'd sabotage them. The main issues are the travel and the question of whether she has a team in place that really knows pairs.
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At the 2016 worlds none of the Russian pairs won a medal but T&M had the highest placement (4th), then S&K(5th) and V&T (6th) who were clearly unprepared. By that time S&K's injury issues had become obvious but Mozer stuck with them till the end.

Only after that T&M got decent programs (Rach and Winter) and they did well at worlds, though they didn't win the gold. After that Mozer disappeared due to her health issue and I think it affected Zhenya. She was young when she went to Mozer. May be Nina was like a mother figure to her?
However Mozer did not reciprocate those feelings. Tamara really cares for her students.

When T&M picked their LP (hated by many fans) for the 2018 Olympics, Mozer did nothing to stop them.

Now they will be with Marina I think. Marina had done a wonderful job with G&G but they were pros, Olympic champions. T&M is a pair that is still struggling to find themselves. So I am concerned, Trankov would be a good part time coach for them to teach them pair elements but he will be tied by his expanding family. I don't see him flying back and forth between Moscow and Florida.

As Trankov said, he is not a psychologist. So who will help T&M In that area? I just don't see anything good happening to their career in the next one year. I really hope they will stick around till 2026. S&Z went to the Olympics in 1998, 2002, 2006, and then 2010 where they finally won the OGM. I hope T&M could win like that.
 
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I just watched V&M's Mahler FD from the 2010 Olympics. I love this music but I am not sure this suits T&M. I could be totally wrong however. They certainly have the skating skills to skate to this, and add some jumps and throws to it. It has enough highlights to do that. I am sure there is the right music for them somewhere.
 
Johnny Johns seems to be the main pairs coach at Zoueva's Skating Academy. From what I could see, he has a pretty solid resume although it doesn't seem he's coached any top pairs in the last 10-12 years. Any thoughts? I don't remember seeing any comments on him by Evgenia or Vladimir. Maybe Zoueva is their main coach.
 
He coached Castile/Okolski, who won nationals in 2097 showing a lot of promise but they were immediately derailed by Castile being perpetually injured. It’s been awhile, but I think they had a lot of praise for their pairs elements (including an impressive twist) and after the nationals win, some thought they had the potential to eventually one day make the podium at worlds.

I don’t remember any comments either way if he’s working with t/m or not.
 
aka_gerbil said:
He coached Castile/Okolski, who won nationals in 2097 showing a lot of promise but they were immediately derailed by Castile being perpetually injured. It’s been awhile, but I think they had a lot of praise for their pairs elements (including an impressive twist) and after the nationals win, some thought they had the potential to eventually one day make the podium at worlds.

I don’t remember any comments either way if he’s working with t/m or not.
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Also Hinzer Hinzmann and Parchem, I think.
 
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Spun Silver said:
Also Hinzer and Parchem, I think.
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Neither is a big name pair. I would be concerned if he would be coaching them. Can Robin be rehired? Will Voronov still help them with jumps?

I was also wondering about their funding situation.
 
Vash01 said:
Neither is a big name pair.
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Hinzmann (correcting her name) and Parchem were exquisite though. There's only one, incomplete performance of theirs on YT but it's a beaut. I used to have a photo of one of their lifts taped to my wall.
 
aka_gerbil said:
He coached Castile/Okolski, who won nationals in 2097 showing a lot of promise but they were immediately derailed by Castile being perpetually injured. It’s been awhile, but I think they had a lot of praise for their pairs elements (including an impressive twist) and after the nationals win, some thought they had the potential to eventually one day make the podium at worlds.

I don’t remember any comments either way if he’s working with t/m or not.
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T&M already have these things - impressive twist, beautiful positions, complex lifts and choreography.

They may need some help on the throws because Zhenya seems to be struggling with the throw triple salchow. I would really like them to work on a throw 3flip to improve their tech marks. I believe they did one in 2019 But not after that.

They absolutely need consistency on the sbs jumps. Can they attend Mishin's camp if there is one? Can Voronov be there in Florida for them?

The judges are likely to penalize them even more if they cannot fix their current jump issues. Trankov said Zhenya was landing the jumps consistently in practice. She just can't land them in competitions. So it can't be a technical problem. It is psychological.

Even Elena Bechke said they are too tense and they need to relax. We have seen how beautiful their exhibitions are When they are in a more relaxed frame of mind.

Tamara used to do some things to relax her skaters before competitions. One was that she looked directly into their eyes to hypnotize them. At the 2002 Olympics before B&S went on the ice for their SP, she told Elena - you are the most beautiful girl out there. At the same Olympics she sent Elena and Anton on a snowmobile ride to relax them. That didn't work well though. Elena got a sunburn and she looked very red. I don't remember the word Tamara used to describe that color But it wasn't pretty. :)

Is there someone who can relax T&M before a competition and gives them confidence?

I think a sports psychologist may be their biggest need.
 
Their consistency problems are all psychological. They have good jump technique. For me, it gets frustrating when people say they need to work with a jump specialist because that is not the problem. They need a psychologist, although I feel like it’s been mentioned that they have been working with one.

The throw flip would be a nice upgrade though.
 
I was listening to Maquerade Waltz today and thought this could be a good SP music for T&M. However V&T had used it fairly recently, in 2014, so it may not be a good idea.

I almost feel that they may be better off using well known music next year. At least it will take out the music issue.
 
Vash01 said:
Did you mean by Tchaikovsky or Rachmaninoff?

Can we post music recommendations for T&M on their IG?
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Tchaikovsky! they need something very classical and russian for the olympics. It's their strenght, i personally feel like music from their past two FS don´t do their skating any justice as the crazy vocals overshadow their clean and aesthetic lines. I also think music like dimash creates more tension than necessary and make them look tight.
 
ccpompom said:
Tchaikovsky! they need something very classical and russian for the olympics. It's their strenght, i personally feel like music from their past two FS don´t do their skating any justice as the crazy vocals overshadow their clean and aesthetic lines. I also think music like dimash creates more tension than necessary and make them look tight.
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I love Tchaikovsky's first piano concert. I have it on a CD. One Canadian pair had skated to it- Cindy Landry and LyndonnJohnston in 1989. I am sure there are other skaters but not a pair to my knowledge.
 
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