Tarasova/Morozov Cheer Thread

aka_gerbil

Rooting for the Underdogs
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They have wonderful throws but many younger pairs are doing throw triple flip or lutz, and sbs 3 lutzes. So they have to land at least the sbs 3sal and toe loops consistently, and may be a 3-2-2 too. Sadly the SS and difficult entrances and lift positions are not rewarded as they should be. So they may have to depend on mistakes by other pairs.
I think long term, they are going to have to upgrade to a throw flip or throw lutz. That some of these teams can do sbs flips and lutzes is why I’m thinking that maybe they need to try to get the catch clean on the quad twist.

My take away is that with how close the score was and that they only had one mistake across two otherwise very strong programs is that if the judges had wanted them to win, they would have. I thought b/k’s pcs was too high. I think my hunch that t/m have to be perfect to win is correct. That is a tough spot to be in. At this point, I’m not sure that even perfect will get it done at Euros and Worlds.

As a fan, that it was so close hurts more than if it had been 5 or 10 points.
 

Perky Shae Lynn

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I guess though the federation took what happened during the gp very seriously. They also loved seeing two Russian teams on last years world podium that they want to try and make it happen again and for that to happen they needed to send the message internationally that the baby are ready now (T/M don't need the extra push to make a world podium).
It's more than that. B&K have fantastic energy. They look like they are having a lot of fun out there, and their chemistry is wonderful. T&M's performance was more workmanlike. That's cool with me. T&M at their best are WC gold medal contenders. We are yet to see their peak. They are methodically working towards their goals, and I am super-excited about their future.
 

Spun Silver

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Well, I'm a fan and I'm not hurt. T/M looked so powerful and impressive here! Their lifts were stunning! But B/K are young stars with momentum, something like the 3As. T/M got personal bests in both programs but this is not a time when Russian judges are going to hold back young Russian super-athletes. I was encouraged that the judges recognized T/M's improvement and the confidence they showed in the FS. The gap was very small. It's a rivalry for sure and T/M came very close to getting back on top.

They looked happy together too which is fantastic to see. I hope they see this as a step forward and not a bitter loss that makes them question their current direction.
 

NAOTMAA

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It's more than that. B&K have fantastic energy. They look like they are having a lot of fun out there, and their chemistry is wonderful. T&M's performance was more workmanlike. That's cool with me. T&M at their best are WC gold medal contenders. We are yet to see their peak. They are methodically working towards their goals, and I am super-excited about their future.
It's funny you use the terms "workmanlike" and "methodically" because that's exactly how Charlie White described their performance at Rostelecom, methodical. He said the one thing he thought they should work on was opening up more and be more expressive with the music. Hopefully now that they have had back to back close to clean competitions their next one at Euros does just that. Their last two performances would have won the GPF and with S/H being shaky they could take advantage of it and win worlds but they got to be more then workmanlike and methodical. They certainly got the material for it, now they just got to do the rest
 

Spun Silver

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I think they took a big step forward in that department. I didn't feel their FS was workmanlike. I know what Perky SL means but not here. They were powerful in the best sense and nothing held back from that strong impression except the SBSs, IMO. But still - having made big progress in that direction should give them confidence to improve more. They don't have to have the same kind of charisma as B/K -- they can have their own kind of cool command.

Not being a technical person -- they seemed notably faster than B/K on a quick view - is that right?

I'm really so happy they skated so well!
 

NAOTMAA

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732
I think they took a big step forward in that department. I didn't feel their FS was workmanlike. I know what Perky SL means but not here. They were powerful in the best sense and nothing held back from that strong impression except the SBSs, IMO. But still - having made big progress in that direction should give them confidence to improve more. They don't have to have the same kind of charisma as B/K -- they can have their own kind of cool command.

Not being a technical person -- they seemed notably faster than B/K on a quick view - is that right?

I'm really so happy they skated so well!
T/M were easily faster then B/K, P/K, M/G and everyone else here! Their basic skating skills are currently unmatched in Russia and worldwide (except perhaps S/H). That's why I was surprised at how small the PCS gap was. B/K did have fantastic energy in terms of performance like Perky SL said but they still don't come close to T/M in basics. Usually speed counts a lot in the PCS marks for the judges but oddly the final score didn't show that here.

edit: its normally why they score so high in the PCS even when the tech isn't there, because their basics are so good.
 
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Vash01

Fan of Yuzuru, Three A's, T&M, P&C
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I think they took a big step forward in that department. I didn't feel their FS was workmanlike. I know what Perky SL means but not here. They were powerful in the best sense and nothing held back from that strong impression except the SBSs, IMO. But still - having made big progress in that direction should give them confidence to improve more. They don't have to have the same kind of charisma as B/K -- they can have their own kind of cool command.

Not being a technical person -- they seemed notably faster than B/K on a quick view - is that right?

I'm really so happy they skated so well!
They are faster than B&K and have cleaner edges, more difficult lifts, but the judges wanted to reward the cleaner performance. Plus they have sophistication that B&K have not yet developed (but they will by 2022). I don’t know if T&M can do a 3f or 3Lz. Certainly not as sbs but if they could upgrade just one of their throws it may help in the judges’ eyes. In a throw only one partner has to land the jump, and that’s the advantage.

I am going to take a wild guess here and I hope I am wrong. Both their throws have edge take offs. Are they/she uncomfortable with toe entrances? A throw 3t has a difficult entrance, IMO. May be that’s why not many skaters do it (plus it scores lower than 3S and 3R). I would think a throw 3f would be hard too. Oddly I think a throw 3Lz may be better because it is not preceded by a 3-turn.

Can they try a throw 3 axel? I am not sure how comfortable they are with the axel, since nobody is doing the double axel anymore (some juniors are). That could put them ahead of everyone.

I am just brainstorming.
 
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Vash01

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T/M were easily faster then B/K, P/K, M/G and everyone else here! Their basic skating skills are currently unmatched in Russia and worldwide (except perhaps S/H). That's why I was surprised at how small the PCS gap was. B/K did have fantastic energy in terms of performance like Perky SL said but they still don't come close to T/M in basics. Usually speed counts a lot in the PCS marks for the judges but oddly the final score didn't show that here.

edit: its normally why they score so high in the PCS even when the tech isn't there, because their basics are so good.
T&M have better SS than S&H. They have cleaner edges and better positions too. The latter may have appeared faster to you because they are high energy, emotional skaters.

I think long term, they are going to have to upgrade to a throw flip or throw lutz. That some of these teams can do sbs flips and lutzes is why I’m thinking that maybe they need to try to get the catch clean on the quad twist.

My take away is that with how close the score was and that they only had one mistake across two otherwise very strong programs is that if the judges had wanted them to win, they would have. I thought b/k’s pcs was too high. I think my hunch that t/m have to be perfect to win is correct. That is a tough spot to be in. At this point, I’m not sure that even perfect will get it done at Euros and Worlds.

As a fan, that it was so close hurts more than if it had been 5 or 10 points.
I don’t know what you are talking about when you mentioned “clean catch on quad twist”. Nobody is doing a quad twist these days because the reward is not that great. T&M have a very clean catch on their triple twist. Actually they have the best one. So I find that statement confusing.

As a fan I am disappointed that they didn’t win, but the narrow loss should give them confidence that even with a mistake they came within striking distance of B&K, who had a very strong GP season (except the GPF). I thought there should have been a bigger difference in the PCS, but as we see in all disciplines, the judges prop up the PCS for skaters who have a higher tech content. That is why a technical upgrade (jumps or throw) may help them a lot.
 

aka_gerbil

Rooting for the Underdogs
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There’s video somewhere of them landing the throw 3F beautifully in summer 2018. They tried it last fall, but then pulled it out and went back to the throw 3s. Maybe they could work on getting it solid.
 

Cherub721

YEAH!
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While I believe a win would have been justifiable I'm kind of relieved it didn't happen, because of the over the top negative reaction T&M always get. They have lost to B&K before so hopefully this won't rattle them. At least they are improving. They were really strong other than that one mistake.
 

Perky Shae Lynn

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T/M were easily faster then B/K, P/K, M/G and everyone else here! Their basic skating skills are currently unmatched in Russia and worldwide (except perhaps S/H). That's why I was surprised at how small the PCS gap was. B/K did have fantastic energy in terms of performance like Perky SL said but they still don't come close to T/M in basics. Usually speed counts a lot in the PCS marks for the judges but oddly the final score didn't show that here.

edit: its normally why they score so high in the PCS even when the tech isn't there, because their basics are so good.
I agree with everything you said. T&M were faster, smoother, and steadier. I think the Russian Fed is being strategic. T&M have always been perceived as highly capable, steady, nice to look at, but somewhat "generic" pair. B&K have a different air about them, largely due to their chemistry and unique look. They are like two puppies running in the field - hard to resist. They are getting a lot of support, and it's ok. B&K have all the tools to become the best pair in the world - but as of right now, they are not in T&M's class in terms of overall skating skills.
 

Mad for Skating

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It’s a bummer that T/M just missed the gold, but overall this was a huge step forward for them! They looked solid and I think they’re back on the right track for a World medal.
 

Vash01

Fan of Yuzuru, Three A's, T&M, P&C
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I am afraid that the RSF is going to sacrifice T&M in order to promote B&K. I do like B&K. They have great potential, but in 2016 T&M had great potential to win the OGM in 2018. The RSF ignored them and they hung on to S&K until it was obvious that they couldn’t make a return at a top level. It was too late then. Unless T&M win both the Euros and the worlds this year, I don’t see them getting any political support from their fed.

However, there is always a possibility of a happy ending, like Kazakova- Dmitriev, but Artur was already an Olympic champion so he didn’t have to prove anything. T&M are carrying some negative opinions from others and possibly the RSF. They will need to overcome that and prove themselves. It is harder than a new pair having to prove itself.
 

Amy L

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As a fan, that it was so close hurts more than if it had been 5 or 10 points.
I'm not! If it had been 5+ points, then it would mean that the federation dumped them. Less than one point means "Well, we're gonna punish you, just a little bit.." It's like they were given a warning, they didn't make the GPF and it was definitely noticed.

While I believe a win would have been justifiable I'm kind of relieved it didn't happen, because of the over the top negative reaction T&M always get.
I agree. With the over the top hatred they get, the reaction would have been ugly. If they still lost the LP, but won overall by something like .01, people would be screaming "HOW DARE THEY!!!!" They don't need that right now. Just try to play the plucky underdogs like they used to and keep working on their improvements. They look well trained - - OMG Evgenia's figure is amazing - - their issues seem to be 100% mental, but they are starting to overcome their past mistakes little by little. We'll see how Euroes goes, because there's a lot less downtime. There might not be enough time to do a lot of detailed work, but hopefully they can still continue to improve/make less and less mistakes as time goes on.

They also seem a lot more relaxed around each other. I don't know if it's being broken up for 2 years now and that they're over it, or if it's just the fact that they both made mistakes on the same jumping pass they don't have the other one to blame ;-)
 

Vash01

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I just watched their SP and LP. The SP was masterful. The LP was very good. They looked well trained and confident. To me, the mistake on the sbs jump combination was minor. Their pair elements were superb. Their speed is amazing. They may or may not win the world championship this year, but they seem to be on the right track. Their exhibition is out of this world. Vladimir often gets slammed on fsu, but that exhibition shows what a good skater he is, and he shows emotions too. It is not Artur Dmitriev or Anton Sikharulidze type emotion. It is subtle. Perhaps next season they could select a LP that will bring out that aspect of their skating. Marina had hinted in her interview that their programs next season will be different.
 
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Perky Shae Lynn

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That last lift...! It would be so great if they made that their SP next season. It totally upends the idea that they lack emotion or charisma.
The exhibition is stunning. But in competition, they do lack emotion and charisma. They get tight, and all the emotion goes away. I don't know how Marina can fix that. It's more of a psychological issue than a program design one.
 

aka_gerbil

Rooting for the Underdogs
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Spun Silver

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The exhibition is stunning. But in competition, they do lack emotion and charisma. They get tight, and all the emotion goes away. I don't know how Marina can fix that. It's more of a psychological issue than a program design one.
Meryl and Charlie used to be accused of lacking chemistry. Marina taught them (or told them to learn) how to act. Problem solved.
 

Amy L

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As usual, I don’t understand a word of this.

I watched it on my phone, I couldn't really hear the interviewer at all so I'm kind of guessing what the questions are by their responses. They start out talking about their show number. I didn't really understand how they described it, I assumed it was 'deep' Averbukh thoughts :lol: They said their impressions of Russian Nationals were overall positive. They saw the progress themselves, and that their marks are already a lot better. They were asked if they were going back to America before Euroes. They're staying in Russia a few days to visit family and friends but then will go back to the US to work with Marina. Their focus is to fix problems they had with the LP. Then they all wished each other a Happy New Year.
 

Sylvia

Wishing I could go back to the Lake Placid JGP
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Just watched their exhibition. Gorgeous!
That last lift...! It would be so great if they made that their SP next season. It totally upends the idea that they lack emotion or charisma.
 

Vash01

Fan of Yuzuru, Three A's, T&M, P&C
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I am on a cruise so I missed the SPs (pairs and men) and RD so far. I read that T&M had a problem on the lift. That is frustrating. In the video clip about their interview after the SP Zhenya looked very upset. I didn't listen to it because I don't have head phones. I couldn't watch the SP because YT has blocked them all it seems.

In any case they were not expected to win anything major this season, with all the changes they have been through. By next year they should be settled. One poster suggested that they quit competing and become show skaters. I find that very rude.
 

Amy L

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You only want them to retire to save your own nerves, you don't actually care about them. They have a disproportionate amount of haterz as it is, you can join them where your opinions are more popular.
 

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