Shibutani Return for Olympic Season

tony said:
But he didn't really ever stop competing, so I don't get what you're trying to say. He was always in pro events with a full arsenal of triples. Scott Hamilton IIRC said at the Olympics that the Axel in the short is the first one he saw him miss all week. Olympic nerves or whatever, but you could also say that of Browning who was a 4-time World Champion by that point with no break in training. Petrenko was winning everything in sight in his comeback year, too, and look how the Olympics went.

The Shibutanis haven't even skated in shows in a long time. Completely different scenario.

But also, let's remember James/Radford, after not competing for a while (in Eric's case 4 full seasons), not only were a brand new team but they were on the World podium in their first year together. No one knows how this is going to go. There's no 'precedent' in the past to tell us how it will, either.
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Sure, but that was a post Olympic Worlds where five teams ( from RUS and CHN who placed ahead of their 12th place finish at the Olympics ) weren't competing AND the other teams who did show up and were ranked ahead of them skated even worse :lol:

The reality is James/Radford did NOT live up to the expectations I and others who were excited for their potential had. A damp squib for sure. It's also why I am keeping my expectations low for FB/C. Paper doesn't always translate to ice.
 
On My Own said:
I don't even know what that means.*

Not for one moment do I believe the current rules allow for "artistry" in any sense of the word, unless we're pretending kitsch is art now, and not in the retro/revivalist sense.

*I do.
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Ah well that’s different. I also think what we’ve got is too formulaic, but the further you go from technical requirements, the more subjective it gets. Choose your poison.
 
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Does it need to be a sport to be included in the Olympics? I’m not sure if the following are sports, but are included… powerwalking, javelin throwing, skeet, rifle, rhythmic gymnastics, trampoline….

I think most people think of Sports embraces a team, but I think anything that’s physical should be included into the Olympics.

And I actually do feel like ice dance is a sport.
 
AngieNikodinovLove (ANL) said:
Does it need to be a sport to be included in the Olympics? I’m not sure if the following are sports, but are included… powerwalking, javelin throwing, skeet, rifle, rhythmic gymnastics, trampoline….
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We should 100% remove powerwalking and rhythm gymnastics. Imagine spending your country's resources for someone looking like they're holding pee in for several kilometres, and prancing with a ribbon.
 
All of this arguing is based on personal subjective and not objective parameters. To me, what matters is if there’s some physical exertion and athletic ability on display and if it can be played where the results are fair.

I think rhythmic gymnastics is a sport but is it fair? I’m sure power walking is fair and probably a lot more accessible to get into. Are golf and curling sports? Some laugh, but it fits the definition, and they’re probably fair since they use objective measures for scoring.
 
VGThuy said:
All of this arguing is based on personal subjective and not objective parameters. To me, what matters is if there’s some physical exertion and athletic ability on display and if it can be played where the results are fair.

I think rhythmic gymnastics is a sport but is it fair? I’m sure power walking is fair and probably a lot more accessible to get into. Are golf and curling sports? Some laugh, but it fits the definition, and they’re probably fair since they use objective measures for scoring.
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I think the argument when V/M and P/C were competing was a rather fair one, how exactly does differentiate between the basic skills of those two? They were too close for it to matter - and if we were to talk about the 'artistic' aspects, well the judges don't know anything about that to really do a meaningful job. It became a farce right there and then, unless someone messed up significantly like P/C did in the Short Dance at PyeongChang.

This might apply in a different sense to the current top teams, where I think they're all equally sleep-inducing, so there you are.
 
VGThuy said:
The last time we saw them compete:


and

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I do not know anything about ice dance discipline and, since my teenager years, I felt aversion to its theatricality and exaggerated emotions. When I watched Olympics, I simply didn't watch ice dance- for me it was not a sport. However, when I first time got a glimpse of Shibutanis, I was surprised and... impressed- it really WAS a dance, not a theatre or some kind of...sorry, entertainment with exaggerated emotion palate. IT was a sport.
 
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marbri said:
Sure, but that was a post Olympic Worlds where five teams ( from RUS and CHN who placed ahead of their 12th place finish at the Olympics ) weren't competing AND the other teams who did show up and were ranked ahead of them skated even worse :lol:

The reality is James/Radford did NOT live up to the expectations I and others who were excited for their potential had. A damp squib for sure. It's also why I am keeping my expectations low for FB/C. Paper doesn't always translate to ice.
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And they still have another World medal after they both had periods of sitting out to competition, whether they fulfilled your personal expectations or not.
 
marbri said:
Oh, was that the point you were making? :lol:
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I’m pretty sure I’ve said it twice now while you chimed in, as always, with some quote about how you weren’t personally happy about them or their result. Oh no, they didn’t live up to marbri’s expectations!

Here’s a third: still have a World medal. Regardless of the field.
 
Once again @tony , I don't have a notebook where I keep a tab of what you write. I saw a comment you made which, imo, implied James/Radford were a success in the context of an ongoing conversation about the difficulties faced by teams coming back after a long break. I hit reply with my two cents that implies I wouldn't consider them an example that disproves that.

You seem bothered by my posts? Really don't know what to do with "while you chimed in, as always, with some quote about how..." other than to say that if you think I follow you on this board or am waiting to chime in every time you post the reality is you are just one of a thousands here on this board to me. And I would have thought I was just one of thousands to you. 🤷‍♀️
 
This is my favorite Shibutani FD:


I remember being surprised hearing this music throughout Worlds last month. I remember watching the ice dance competition and just thinking, I wish the Shibs had been competing.
 
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As someone who is struggling a lot through cancer treatments right now, I would find it inspiring to see the Shibs on the ice again. Doesn't have to be the Olympics, or even a podium finish at smaller competitions. Just need hope that there will be some healthier days ahead, and I'll take that hope where I can find it.
 
VGThuy said:
What fans? I didn’t see anyone saying that here. And if you mean me in the other thread, I was not rewriting anything. I never said anything about a timeline and I was going with what Maia herself said about the frustrations she was having with dealing much longer recovery than she expected and the emotional toll is took on her as someone who relied on her body as an athlete. I was also reacting to a very dismissive and insensitive response. Other than toxic groups who try to prove an influencer is lying about her cancer (just read a NYTimes story where this very real cancer patient is dealing with a small but vocal and dedicated online mob on Reddit, who are hell bent on exposing her even when she keeps providing proof), I’m still taken aback about how dismissive some are about cancer here, and are blind to just how much their bias against the Shibs are playing into it.
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I was not referring to you, I was referring to skating fans on places like Facebook, Instagram, Reddit, and Twitter. I lurk a lot of places and have a lot of skating stuff shared by skating friends on social media. They have a lot to say about the cancer and are putting words in her mouth about it.

I actually think the cancer story is inspiring - but I also feel like cancer is a personal journey. They shouldn't be forced into talking about it or skating about it if that's not what they want. If they want that to be their narrative it can be, but fans should not dictate that narrative or rewrite that narrative for them. But based on the press release they also have other narratives they may explore like their activism or media careers.
 
In the past I was part of a panel that allocated grants to amateur sport groups. We faced exactly these kinds of questions when going over the grant allocations - and because of the source of the funds we had to be very clear on the reasons for our choices.

One of the most challenging areas was dance. All the groups applying met the criteria that their activity got people up and moving, and increased physical, emotional and social well being. But then it got trickier. Can people compete in this activity? Yes, but there are different levels and forms of competition. How is it judged? The amount of subjective and objective criteria, and how they were applied, also varied. Does the local square dance club that travels once a year to a regional competition for fun deserve funding? What about the local ballroom dance club that sends people to international events and is affiliated with an international "dance sport" federation that has multiple world championships? Do they deserve funding more than the square dancers? Is either kind of dance really a sport?

We also had applications from groups in sports that were played internationally at competitive levels, and sometimes professionally, but not here.

It was not an easy process, and thankfully (well maybe not thankfully for the applicants) the grant money usually wasn't enough to fund every application. But we did have some lengthy discussions.
 
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KCC said:
As someone who is struggling a lot through cancer treatments right now, I would find it inspiring to see the Shibs on the ice again. Doesn't have to be the Olympics, or even a podium finish at smaller competitions. Just need hope that there will be some healthier days ahead, and I'll take that hope where I can find it.
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And that right there is worth the price of their return, hope. Currently walking alongside my mother in her own journey and I have a greater understanding and admiration for what she, you and others go through. And since you will take hope where you can find it, while it isn't over yet, she has completed chemo and radiation and is getting back her spark and sass . At my expense much of the time :lol: but it puts the biggest smile on my face ;) Good luck to you and your journey.
 
Posting this here instead of the US Dance or other threads. I appreciated the Shibs since their Senior debut season and saw them live at Nats 2011 Greensboro. The crowd reaction to them blazing through their twizzles in the FD is still a highlight. I watched them live in 2018 on the edge of my seat in the arena at the Olympics. I even wore red and black to the FD. Again, the crowd reaction to their twizzles! I kinda hope they troll all the Coldplay haters with an easter egg sample in one of their programs.

Are they my favorite ID team? No. I'm more of a current season/team follower (We will see who takes that spot once the season starts). But what I loved about them - they were always the underdogs. With limited choices on program themes and a huge penalty for daring to win bronze at their first worlds, I felt like they were always having to go above and beyond to prove themselves. Sure they had some clunkers of programs, especially in their run up to Sochi. Once the started taking control of their music and programs, something clicked.

At first, I wasn't jumping for joy with the comeback announcement. It was more - oh? Ok. good for them. However, to read the amount of filth and disdain against them in this and other threads, I'm all in for whatever happens. I love the chaos and pearl clutching. It doesn't matter to anyone but those two why they came back. Unfinished business? Jumpstarting a stagnant influencer business? A chance to do something they love one last time? Olympic glory again? A relatively meh top 4 teams? Who knows? But it doesn't matter. One. Dang. Bit.

Having lost my mother quickly to cancer last fall, I'm disgusted that anyone would question someone's health timeline when it comes to diagnosis, treatment and recovery. Just because you are in remission, doesn't mean you are healed and life is back to normal the next day.

The fact they haven't been doing shows or stayed involved with development or skating - geez Louise. There's so much speculation on everything, and the off season is a vacuum for drama and any scrap of news, but the amount of hateful, skeptical analysis is ridiculous. And people almost cheering that they haven't published any more books or vlogs or their influencer status has faded - yuck yuck yuck. I kinda applaud them for doing some things outside of skating, instead of trying to cling to glory days with a podcast or commentating. We all know how much shade is thrown to those people too.

For all the crying about 'taking a spot' or swooping in at the last minute, I can understand the frustration, but that's part of competition. I keep deleting what I really want to write. The sanitized version is that the current leaders aren't exactly bringing something new, fresh or innovative to dance. They're just the top because everyone else retired after the last quad. The real interest is in the 5-12th place teams (should be 4-12).

Coincidentally, I'll be in Milan for the FD. Already looking forward to ID post Milan!
 
SidelineSkater said:
Posting this here instead of the US Dance or other threads. I appreciated the Shibs since their Senior debut season and saw them live at Nats 2011 Greensboro. The crowd reaction to them blazing through their twizzles in the FD is still a highlight. I watched them live in 2018 on the edge of my seat in the arena at the Olympics. I even wore red and black to the FD. Again, the crowd reaction to their twizzles! I kinda hope they troll all the Coldplay haters with an easter egg sample in one of their programs.

Are they my favorite ID team? No. I'm more of a current season/team follower (We will see who takes that spot once the season starts). But what I loved about them - they were always the underdogs. With limited choices on program themes and a huge penalty for daring to win bronze at their first worlds, I felt like they were always having to go above and beyond to prove themselves. Sure they had some clunkers of programs, especially in their run up to Sochi. Once the started taking control of their music and programs, something clicked.

At first, I wasn't jumping for joy with the comeback announcement. It was more - oh? Ok. good for them. However, to read the amount of filth and disdain against them in this and other threads, I'm all in for whatever happens. I love the chaos and pearl clutching. It doesn't matter to anyone but those two why they came back. Unfinished business? Jumpstarting a stagnant influencer business? A chance to do something they love one last time? Olympic glory again? A relatively meh top 4 teams? Who knows? But it doesn't matter. One. Dang. Bit.

Having lost my mother quickly to cancer last fall, I'm disgusted that anyone would question someone's health timeline when it comes to diagnosis, treatment and recovery. Just because you are in remission, doesn't mean you are healed and life is back to normal the next day.

The fact they haven't been doing shows or stayed involved with development or skating - geez Louise. There's so much speculation on everything, and the off season is a vacuum for drama and any scrap of news, but the amount of hateful, skeptical analysis is ridiculous. And people almost cheering that they haven't published any more books or vlogs or their influencer status has faded - yuck yuck yuck. I kinda applaud them for doing some things outside of skating, instead of trying to cling to glory days with a podcast or commentating. We all know how much shade is thrown to those people too.

For all the crying about 'taking a spot' or swooping in at the last minute, I can understand the frustration, but that's part of competition. I keep deleting what I really want to write. The sanitized version is that the current leaders aren't exactly bringing something new, fresh or innovative to dance. They're just the top because everyone else retired after the last quad. The real interest is in the 5-12th place teams (should be 4-12).

Coincidentally, I'll be in Milan for the FD. Already looking forward to ID post Milan!
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Thank you for saying this. You summed up my own feelings as well.
 
The current leaders are winning because they're following the rules to maximize their points. If the programs aren't fresh or innovative, that's because of the rules, not because of the skaters. If the Shibs want to win they will have to do boring programs like everyone else.
 
I wonder if Shibs could compete in Team Event as the USA #2.

Ice Dance is the first event for the 2026 Olympics. Bock may not want to do 4 events in 6 days. Here's the schedule:

Fri 2/6: Team Event RD
Sat 2/7: Team Event FD
Mon 2/9: Indiv RD
Wed 2/11: Indiv FD

I'm sure Bock would like to rest since individual OGM is their top priority. So maybe that's another reason why Shibs is coming back. It seems likely that Team USA would need to do a split for Ice Dance and Men (since those are the first 2 events in the schedule).
 
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