Seriously, why isn’t a flutz considered a flip jump?

[exNyer]

Although I have watching figure skating on TV and followed the discussions on various forums for years, and I still don’t understand why a jump is credited for what is actually performed vs their intent.
Also, if a jump isn’t fully rotated in the air it shouldn’t be given the higher rotation credit.
If I intend to pay ten dollars and instead hand over a 5 dollar bill I wouldn’t be given credit for “10”

 

[bladesofgorey]

1.Because usually for a flutz the edge is on an outside and then switches over to an inside at the last second. That's not the same as doing a planned flip with an extended inside curve before the pick, even if one were to set a flip up from, say, a back cross-over.

2. A jump that isn't fully rotated doesn't get the same amount of points as one that is, so I'm not sure I understand the question.

 

[exNyer]

1.Because usually for a flutz the edge is on an outside and then switches over to an inside at the last second. That's not the same as doing a planned flip with an extended inside curve before the pick, even if one were to set a flip up from, say, a back cross-over.

2. A jump that isn't fully rotated doesn't get the same amount of points as one that is, so I'm not sure I understand the question.

 

[exNyer]

3/4 rotation is considered one full rotation.

 

[kwanfan1818]

An up-to 25% underrotation is given the full base value, but is supposed to reduce GOE. So rather than having to pay off most of the bill by washing dishes when you can't pay for your check, you only have to wash some dishes for the remaining $.01-2.50 against your $10.00 check.

 

[caseyedwards]

I’m almost certain when miki ando went for some quad salchows the technical panel didn’t even do 4s<. They just went 3s. So if someone underrotates a triple lutz so bad why doesn’t the panel just say 2lz with an overrotation. I believe this addresses the second question.

 

[briancoogaert]

I agree about the Flutz part.
About the steps, a choctaw with a slight change of edge becomes a mohawk, then the key point is not valid.
It should be the same about the jumps.

 

[Evgeniafan]

Why is a lip called a flip not a lutz. Very few skaters have a correct edge Flip and Lutz. Name 3.

 

[miffy]

I’m almost certain when miki ando went for some quad salchows the technical panel didn’t even do 4s<. They just went 3s. So if someone underrotates a triple lutz so bad why doesn’t the panel just say 2lz with an overrotation. I believe this addresses the second question.

IIRC the rules were different in the early years of CoP. An underrotated quad was scored as a triple with bad GoE. I might be wrong about that but I think it changed a few years in.

 

[caseyedwards]

IIRC the rules were different in the early years of CoP. An underrotated quad was scored as a triple with bad GoE. I might be wrong about that but I think it changed a few years in.

That would explain the going from 3S to 4S<.

 

[Former Lurve Goddess]

Why is a lip called a flip not a lutz. Very few skaters have a correct edge Flip and Lutz. Name 3.

Joannie Rochette, Carolina Kostner and?

 

[Plusdinfo]

Joannie Rochette, Carolina Kostner and?

Maria Butyrskaya.

 

[On My Own]

1.Because usually for a flutz the edge is on an outside and then switches over to an inside at the last second. That's not the same as doing a planned flip with an extended inside curve before the pick, even if one were to set a flip up from, say, a back cross-over.

This.

A Flutz and Flip aren't the same. If you switch over from a deep outside edge to an inside when you pick in, the counter-rotation already happened. It's ridiculous to call those jumps the same.

About the steps, a choctaw with a slight change of edge becomes a mohawk, then the key point is not valid.
It should be the same about the jumps.

Keep Ice Dance to Ice Dance, and real skating - what little of it remains - to real skating. Thanks.

 

[purple skates]

Perspective from someone who, back when I jumped, had a picture perfect flutz that was the bane of my existence.

My flip (single) was my jump of glory. I loved that jump. I could enter it from a three turn, or a mohawk, or Scotty turns and it always felt big and controlled and beautiful.

My lutz (single) was my jump of agony. It didn’t matter what I did or how I was coached, I could not stop the edge from changing from outside to inside before takeoff. I could do a half-lutz correctly all day long, but never a full rotation lutz.

A flip and a flutz and definitely not the same!