Seguin/Bilodeau, Firus out of Worlds

[manhn]

Maybe Nguyen had a spectacular test skate?

 

[mag]

thank you for info. i see. so i guess it is "what's best for the country" after all.

It probably is, but it was a $hitty way of doing it. Anyone with half a brain could have seen that the second world spot should not have been decided after Nationals. I know SC has always had a soft spot for Liam, but what they have done was not helpful or fair. Sending him to the Olympics when spots aren't on the line is one thing, sending him to worlds the year before Olympic spots are decided is crazy. The upside is that it probably lit a fire under Nam to train hard for the the new team event so he will probably be more than ready for Worlds.

 

[rfisher]

Interesting that the press release makes it sound like this was all Liam's own idea.



And

I don't believe for one second he wasn't asked to do this. But, why didn't Skate Canada just do this in the first place. I think it sucks to let him think he's going to Worlds and then let him "choose" to W/D for the sake of the team. This Worlds is cursed.

 

[marbri]

I think it's the right decision regardless of who made it. And I don't think it would have happened if Liam's training was going well and Nam's wasn't. Since Chan has a lot of competition and no cushion anymore they are better off sending Nam and crossing their fingers over some guy who consistently chokes at major international competitions. Isn't 2017 Worlds important for Olympic spots? Too much risk sending this guy who couldn't even make it to the FP in Sochi.

And believe it or not I write that as someone who thinks Liam is a beautiful skater with some of the best skating skills around. He just seems to lack that mentality that takes someone from "has potential" to a contender.

 

[chewy]

From Reynolds' recent Sportland competition to get the SP minimum. Nam wasn't first in line for the replacement either.

 

[skateboy]

Regarding Firus, I think this was handled very poorly by SC. I'm half-expecting, in the near future:

"Liam Firus announces retirement."

 

[mtnskater]

Wow, Skate Canada is pretty ruthless. I could never see USFS doing something like this, even when it would be justified due to injury. USFS doesn't seem to be all about the three spots, but usually prefers protecting Nationals results. Has USFS ever pulled somebody this close to Worlds on this basis? Like can you imagine if they pulled Grant right now in favor of Jason Brown? I am really surprised.

 

[SamuraiK]

"For our team"?? ISU can invent as many team events as they want but figure skating is essentially an individual sport.

Count me as another that doesn't believe Firus is going to willingly give up his rightfully earned spot for the hypothetical chance of a third spot that he might not get next year.

 

[Erin]

I think it's the right decision regardless of who made it. And I don't think it would have happened if Liam's training was going well and Nam's wasn't.

I do too. I just wish it had been done differently, by leaving the second spot open after Canadians and delaying the selection.

I also agree that there is likely to be a good basis for the decision in how the two guys are practicing. And that Kevin going to Budapest meant that he was also in serious consideration for the spot.

 

[marbri]

Wasn't there a lot of drama of the treatment of Mirai Nagasu a while back? People pissed off Wagner got the spot instead of her (as she finished ahead of her) while others thought Edmunds (who came second) shouldn't get the spot because Mirai was more experienced? What was that about if it wasn't about spots?

 

[wickedwitch]

Wasn't there a lot of drama of the treatment of Mirai Nagasu a while back? People pissed off Wagner got the spot instead of her (as she finished ahead of her) while others thought Edmunds (who came second) shouldn't get the spot because Mirai was more experienced? What was that about if it wasn't about spots?

Ashley was the reigning GPF bronze medalist. That was about not leaving a potential medal contended home.

 

[marbri]

What would have to happen for Canada to only get one spot? In a scenario where Liam doesn't qualify for the FP at Worlds what is the worst Chan can place for 2 spots.

Chan at his best is brilliant but he can be a bit of a headcase as well and he doesn't get the bump he used to get. If he shows up in Boston popping his way all over the ice how many men, at their best, could place ahead of him. I know it sounds ludicrous to imagine such a scenario but I how more faith in Canadian ladies these days than I do in the men.

 

[Sylvia]

What would have to happen for Canada to only get one spot? In a scenario where Liam doesn't qualify for the FP at Worlds what is the worst Chan can place for 2 spots.

I posted this in the Canadian Men's thread back in February when some fans were worried that Canada could lose their second spot for 2017:

Chan would have to place 11th (for 11 points) and Firus [now Nguyen] not qualify for the FS (18 points) for Canada to lose their second spot. Even if Firus [now Nguyen] places 16th-24th he would only get 16 points and Chan would have to place 13th for Canada to lose the second spot.

 

[peibeck]

Wasn't there a lot of drama of the treatment of Mirai Nagasu a while back? People pissed off Wagner got the spot instead of her (as she finished ahead of her) while others thought Edmunds (who came second) shouldn't get the spot because Mirai was more experienced? What was that about if it wasn't about spots?

I don't think the situation is the same. They didn't announce Mirai to the Olympic team and then two weeks before say, "hey, Ashley is training better than you and has a much higher world ranking, you're out. Sorry!"

 

[MacMadame]

Wasn't there a lot of drama of the treatment of Mirai Nagasu a while back? People pissed off Wagner got the spot instead of her (as she finished ahead of her) while others thought Edmunds (who came second) shouldn't get the spot because Mirai was more experienced? What was that about if it wasn't about spots?

It wasn't about spots because it was the Olympics that people were bitching about and the results of the Olympics don't determine spots.

 

[kwanoverrated]

I think they should have just sent the team they named at Nationals. If they weren't sure who they were sending they shouldn't have named the team then. Nguyen isn't strong enough right now for them to get 3 spots IMO, so there is no point. If he proves me wrong I will be happy.

 

[marbri]

My bad, I don't follow US ladies enough to know all the details. Just remember reading people bitching about the bitching over the whole situation.


eta...I don't think any combination will give Canada 3 spots. I would have been more worried about them dropping to one spot. When Chan doesn't skate well the judges drop him and there are more than a handful of men out there with the technical content to kick him down the ladder.

 

[mtnskater]

Wasn't there a lot of drama of the treatment of Mirai Nagasu a while back? People pissed off Wagner got the spot instead of her (as she finished ahead of her) while others thought Edmunds (who came second) shouldn't get the spot because Mirai was more experienced? What was that about if it wasn't about spots?

The U.S. Olympic team selection naming Ashley over Mirai was made right at the end of U.S. Nationals. What Skate Canada is doing here is quite different. They named a team and now are changing their mind weeks later when then event is close at hand.

 

[Dobre]

Wasn't there a lot of drama of the treatment of Mirai Nagasu a while back? What was that about if it wasn't about spots?

Plenty of drama. And rightfully so as it had never been done--excluding injury--previously in the history of U.S. Figure Skating. Though the drama was about the U.S. Olympic team. (It was true for Worlds as well, but the hoopla wasn't over Worlds). So technically, the drama aspect of the decision had nothing to do with spots. Since spots aren't earned at the Olympics.

I would not be surprised, though, if SC thought this would allow them to avoid the drama. It feels even more political (in its under-the-radar approach) and is likewise the kind of decision that could be demoralizing not only for the athlete involved but to any Canadian athlete competing to make an international team. Again, just bizarre when there was nothing keeping Canada from waiting until after 4CC's to announce.

I will be glad to see Nam at Worlds. I just wish he had skated well enough at Nationals to earn the placement that way.

 

[marbri]

It is possible after Canadians they believed Liam was the best choice. Leading up to Canadians and in interviews he did he sounded very confident, quads were going well in practice etc... Maybe they thought Christy Krall created a competitor with Liam then way she did with Chan during their time together.

And then he fell apart again. And they changed their mind.

 

[overedge]

I think it's the right decision regardless of who made it.

I understand why Skate Canada might think it is the "right" decision, but on the face of it, the decision seems very badly handled. It's hard to call it "right" IMHO when it ends up reflecting so badly on Firus. I get that he is not the most consistent competitor, but he did place well at Nationals and it's not like he's completely unqualified to go to Worlds. Skaters deserve to be treated more respectfully than this.

 

[cheerknithanson]

I'm feeling so overwhelmed by all of this. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

 

[marbri]

I guess we aren't even going to consider the possibility he may even agree with this decision It's just my nature when these situations happen to look at the bigger picture and try to reason why a federation would do this because they usually have more information then we do.

Oh well just a few weeks left and we will see if this gamble pays off.

 

[skategal]

It's possible that something personal that Firus doesn't want to disclose is going on causing him to withdraw. Thus, stating this reason for withdrawal.

I think getting 3 spots for 2017 is a major long shot at best.....so not sure the reason for withdrawal rings true.

If Firus is not up to competing at Worlds for some reason, he should withdraw.

Hope he is okay whatever is happening.

 

[Sylvia]

Liam has tweeted classily (3 tweets total):

Thank you everyone out there for all the support regarding the decision I made to withdraw from worlds
I truly believe it's the right decision for myself to succeed in this sport.Not discouraged or sad, only excited to improve for next year!
Can't wait to see my teammates kick butt in Boston!! #teamcanada #ifeellikeGilmoreJunio #proud

Link to his 2nd of 3 tweets: https://twitter.com/Liam_Firus/status/708449196970516481

 

[mag]

I guess we aren't even going to consider the possibility he may even agree with this decision It's just my nature when these situations happen to look at the bigger picture and try to reason why a federation would do this because they usually have more information then we do.

Oh well just a few weeks left and we will see if this gamble pays off.

As I posted earlier, given Liam's age and the state of men's skating in Canada, it is a fairly good bet that this year was his one and only opportunity to go to Worlds. I highly doubt he volunteered to withdraw. Of course, that isn't a good enough reason to send him, but SC should have thought the decision through before making it. Nicholas Nadeau has a lovely triple axel and will most likely be matching Liam in PCS next year. I see him at the bronze medal threat to Kevin assuming Patrick and Nam go one two.

 

[midori]

@ Liam_Firus on Twitter:
"I truly believe it's the right decision for myself to succeed in this sport.Not discouraged or sad, only excited to improve for next year!"

Very interesting... so, someone assured him there will be no succeed for him in the sport if he had not withdrawn?? Or am I reading too much?

 

[kwanfan1818]

Nguyen placed fifth at Worlds last year. While there was no Chan, Uno, or Jin, Han Yan was 10th, and Jason Brown won't be there. No one knows what shape Denis Ten is in, although he tends to peak this time of the season.

Nguyen has had a rough season. Maybe he's ready.

 

[mag]

@ Liam_Firus on Twitter:
"I truly believe it's the right decision for myself to succeed in this sport.Not discouraged or sad, only excited to improve for next year!"

Very interesting... so, someone assured him there will be no succeed for him in the sport if he had not withdrawn?? Or am I reading too much?

I think you are reading too much into it. On a grammar police note, I wish people would use "me" instead of "myself." "Me is the correct word 99% of the time and "myself" just sounds over the top.

 

[Seerek]

Interestingly, Nguyen barely placed 4th ahead of Nicolas Nadeau at Nationals by a point overall. I wonder what would have been done by Skate Canada had Nadeau finished 4th instead (he has the minimums but was already assigned Junior Worlds).

I suspect Liam would have had a better case to keep his spot had he been the second placed Canadian at Four Continents.

I personally think Kevin Reynolds could have made a case for the Worlds spot had he been more closer to Nam Nguyen's Skate Canada total score at either Sportland Trophy or Four Continents (along with the SP TES minimum)