Re-opening rinks with social distancing

anikacanaxel

Member
Messages
90
Also, skaters doing double jumps shouldn't be on the same session as wobbly skaters learning to skate (but that's not a *********-related issue, it's a session planning issue which I'm going to bring up with the board).
I don't know why it's allowed at any rink, it's annoying and dangerous for both parties involved.
 

MacMadame

Staying at home
Messages
37,278
Sad. But not surprising. Air in ice rinks tends to be marginal already due to a number of factors that would make it bad for C19 as well.
 

spinZZ

Active Member
Messages
149
The CDC just published a report showing that indoor sports - they specifically studied hockey - and ice rinks are considered high risk for ********* spread.
But for you, me, and others in NJ, Governor Murphy just this Mon (Oct 12) issued Executive Order 187, which allows full hockey activities (including contact competitions) to resume (with restrictions on the maximum number of people in the rink). See https://www.nj.gov/governor/news/news/562020/20201012a.shtml for links to Executive Order 187 and the latest state Guidance for Sports Activities.

The Guidance specifically calls out hockey as a medium-risk sport and pair figure skating as a high-risk sport (also permissible as of Oct 12). Risk is based on likelihood of C_O_V_I_D transmission.

Given the recent uptick in cases in NJ, it'll be interesting whether rinks will shutdown again here, as they have in NH (reported by ioana in Reply #510 above).
 
Last edited:

bladesofgorey

Well-Known Member
Messages
284
Hockey is definitely high risk and should not be happening right now. It's sure to get rinks shut down. With the cooler weather imo many or most rinks would be able to increase ventilation by bringing in even more outdoor air, making them safer for masked, non-contact sports.
 

overedge

G.O.A.T.
Messages
28,621
The health officer in my province is also asking parents not to enrol their kids in multiple sports, because if a kid picks up the v*r*s at one game/training session, they can infect kids in other sports as well.

I know that not all parents with kids in multiple sports are crazy sports parents, but it does make me think that the obsessive parents who do this are also probably the ones most likely to lie about their kid's condition, if their kid gets sick....
 

spinZZ

Active Member
Messages
149
Hockey is definitely high risk and should not be happening right now. It's sure to get rinks shut down. With the cooler weather imo many or most rinks would be able to increase ventilation by bringing in even more outdoor air, making them safer for masked, non-contact sports.
1. At the rinks I’m familiar with, masks are required when skaters (of all varieties) are off ice, but optional when skaters are on ice. From viewing protocols posted for other rinks, this appears to be common.

Hockey helmets have multiple options for face protection: none, cage, visor, and face shield. A face shield is not as effective as a mask for reducing the spread of muck, but would be superior to the other options. I think it would be reasonable to require hockey players to wear helmets with face shields.

For most figure skaters and recreational skaters, though, the options are mask or no mask. The problem with a masks optional policy on ice is that skaters can still congregate on the ice or by the boards.

2. The issues pertaining to ventilation are complex, and there are still many unknowns. I used to work in a semiconductor cleanroom. The ventilation was configured to provide vertical laminar flow of air. The floors were raised and perforated. Air was distributed from inlets on the ceiling, flowed vertically downwards toward the floor, and was exhausted from below the floor. This greatly reduced the flow of air laterally around the room, and greatly reduced the transport of contaminants laterally around the room.

In rinks I’m familiar with, the air inlets and exhausts are both mounted high up near the roof. In some systems, there are simply ports mounted on the wall. In other systems, air is distributed through vented ducts extending the length of the ice. Regardless, the air circulation is not vertical laminar flow, and the air is swirled around the rink in some complex pattern. Vertical laminar flow is not practical in an ice rink.

The nominal 6-ft social distance rule applies for people who are nominally stationary and nominally breathing normally. Skaters, of course, are flying around the ice and breathing heavily. Suppose a sick skater expels a cloud of infectious muck into the air and skates away. Along zooms an innocent skater, who looks and sees that the coast is clear ... but instead skates right into the cloud and sucks in the infectious muck. And note: The cloud persists longer at cooler temperatures, such as in an ice rink. So even if you bring in more fresh air to reduce long-term build-up of muck in the air, it might not help short-term localized spread of muck from one skater to another. To make things worse, the air flow in some rinks is not constantly refreshed, but cycled on-and-off periodically.
 

Yazmeen

Shake it then, shake it now, shake it forever
Messages
5,396
Huge numbers of outbreaks linked to Hockey resuming (who could have foreseen this?) means rinks in MA and other states are closing down for at least two weeks. What a surprise.
I just spoke to my coach by phone (I had emailed to let him know there was no chance of me having lessons before 2021 - I still haven't gone back and don't plan to yet). He told me about this; what a shock.
 
Last edited:

ioana

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,013
Am understandably biased, but blocking access to the ice while allowing off ice activities to still take place inside skating rinks makes no sense whatsoever. Holding nationwide hockey tournaments with unmasked kids forechecking at speed is idiotic. Good luck contact tracing them back to MN and other states hundreds of miles away.

Will see whether or not NH rinks re-open after their 2 weeks are up on October29th- and more importantly- how they plan on enforcing rules for hockey so they no longer hold tournaments or other activities that clearly go against social distancing recommendations.
 

Aceon6

Isolating from mean people
Messages
20,935
Will see whether or not NH rinks re-open after their 2 weeks are up on October29th- and more importantly- how they plan on enforcing rules for hockey so they no longer hold tournaments or other activities that clearly go against social distancing recommendations.
I don’t expect it to go well. Young men are the least likely to observe any of the recommended precautions. If they limited access to younger kids and geezer leagues, maybe.
 

ioana

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,013
I don’t expect it to go well. Young men are the least likely to observe any of the recommended precautions. If they limited access to younger kids and geezer leagues, maybe.
Completely agree they could break rules even during practice or scrimmage. I'm more worried by the adults who were involved in deciding to go ahead with a tournament to begin with. That kind of decision-making is what shut down rinks and now means figure skaters have to pay for bad hockey behavior 😣
 

GarrAargHrumph

I can kill you with my brain
Messages
19,080
Never mind the hockey parents - of kids, not semi pro players - who were tailgating outside the rink. I didn't even know that was a thing, never mind something someone would do during a *********.
 

spinZZ

Active Member
Messages
149
Another compelling reason for the figure kids to really not like the hockey kids. They steal all the decent time slots, then bring in their cooties.
But the reality is that for most rinks (there are some exceptions), hockey keeps them financially solvent. In particular, the teams that rent sessions through a season provide a known and stable source of income. Whereas the return on freestyle and public sessions depends on how many skaters show up.
 

bladesofgorey

Well-Known Member
Messages
284
For anyone in NJ, do not, I repeat DO NOT go to Fritz Dietl arena, it's a nightmare now. The protocols listed on their website are some of the strictest, with good reason since their rink is tiny (about 1/2 the size of a regular rink if that, and with square corners taking up some of that real estate), their room for putting on skates/renting skates is smaller than some people's closets and stuffy as heck, and the ceiling in the rink is lower than most hotel convention rooms. This has always been a pleasant and charming rink, especially before Mrs. Dietl passed, but not one on the protocols is being followed (I tried it out against my better judgement this weekend based on those safety protocols).

Limited skaters: No, there were 3-4 times the number of skaters on the session than usual, including random hockey dads, kids wearing rentals, and some figure skaters and coaches.

Masks required in building: Nope, not a person wearing them on the packed ice and the coaches who wearing them (and holding onto students) had theirs either on their chins or well below their nose

No spectators/parents allowed in building after child's skates are on: LOL nope the tiny changing/viewing room was packed with parents for the duration of the sessions and half had their masks completely off the whole time

Exit out the rink door instead of the front when leaving: Nope, rink doors were not open at all, they were all shut tight for at least three hours which is great for a cold low ceilinged tiny space filled with tens of people breathing heavily.

Also no sign in or record of skaters in the facility so good luck with the contact tracing that will inevitably need to happen here.

I will not be back needless to say, and I am not going out anywhere for four days after just in case. I am absolutely floored tbh because this is an area seeing huge rates of super spreader events and community transmission. A few miles away from this rink in NY the other rinks were ordered shut down recently for at least a couple of weeks. The recklessness is breathtaking since some of these issues could and should be so easily be addressed (just enforce the fake protocols listed and open some doors/turn the fans on).
 

spinZZ

Active Member
Messages
149
I will not be back needless to say, and I am not going out anywhere for four days after just in case. I am absolutely floored tbh because this is an area seeing huge rates of super spreader events and community transmission. A few miles away from this rink in NY the other rinks were ordered shut down recently for at least a couple of weeks. The recklessness is breathtaking since some of these issues could and should be so easily be addressed (just enforce the fake protocols listed and open some doors/turn the fans on).
Thanks for the detailed field report. This is really bad news, since c*d cases are on the rise in NJ again; we certainly don't want to relapse to our scenario in April. But with Governor Murphy allowing competitive contact sports, including ice hockey, to restart, things are bound to go downhill.

Could you clarify what's happening in NYC area rinks? I've seen articles about rinks in NH, MA, and now VT that previously re-opened, but recently have had to shutdown again for some designated period because of outbreaks traceable to hockey. But I just did a Google search and couldn't find anything similar concerning NYC area rinks (other than that some rinks won't be opening this season). I recall some rink re-opening and then shutting down again for a while in NY state, but I think it was in Rochester.
 
Last edited:

bladesofgorey

Well-Known Member
Messages
284
Could you clarify what's happening in NYC area rinks? I've seen articles about rinks in NH, MA, and now VT that previously re-opened, but recently have had to shutdown again for some designated period because of outbreaks traceable to hockey. But I just did a Google search and couldn't find anything similar concerning NYC area rinks (other than that some rinks won't be opening this season). I recall some rink re-opening and then shutting down again for a while in NY state, but I think it was in Rochester.
Rinks in Rockland county around Nyack and that area were ordered closed for two weeks, they may have started to reopen again.
 

spinZZ

Active Member
Messages
149
Rinks in Rockland county around Nyack and that area were ordered closed for two weeks, they may have started to reopen again.
Thanks for the clarification. Did some more digging, based on your response. Looks like the shutdown was related to generic shutdowns of certain businesses in red-zone hotspots, rather than specific shutdowns of ice rinks due to outbreaks traceable to ice rinks, as in other states.
 

Aceon6

Isolating from mean people
Messages
20,935
I’m hearing rumors that the Eastern Mass rinks with competitive figure programs are looking at schedule changes to keep hockey and figure apart and allow more time for cleaning once they’re allowed to reopen. The downside is that no one would be able to skate 2 days in a row.
 

GarrAargHrumph

I can kill you with my brain
Messages
19,080
Rinks in Rockland county around Nyack and that area were ordered closed for two weeks, they may have started to reopen again.

Thanks for the clarification. Did some more digging, based on your response. Looks like the shutdown was related to generic shutdowns of certain businesses in red-zone hotspots, rather than specific shutdowns of ice rinks due to outbreaks traceable to ice rinks, as in other states.

That makes sense. Sport-o-Rama in Monsey, NY is in a red zone. I'm not sure if the rink at Palisades in Nyack is, or if it's in yellow. Sporto would be closed because of its location, not necessarily due to active cases.

I've heard that Codey Arena in South Orange, NJ has closed due to ********* cases. I heard that from a skater, but I don't have confirmation beyond that. The Ice Vault in Wayne, NJ had ********* cases on a hockey team, but the rink didn't close.
 

bladesofgorey

Well-Known Member
Messages
284
I've heard that Codey Arena in South Orange, NJ has closed due to ********* cases. I heard that from a skater, but I don't have confirmation beyond that. The Ice Vault in Wayne, NJ had ********* cases on a hockey team, but the rink didn't close.
that would be really surprising since they don't allow anyone on the ice who isn't having a lesson and don't offer any freestyle aside from private lessons- but maybe hockey strikes again (I mean if they are having hockey practices or games it makes no sense to have not allowed limited freestyles as well? Regardless NJ is solidly heading into a huge wave again so I don't expect rinks to stay open much longer.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top
Do Not Sell My Personal Information