Path forward for Canadian figure skating

[Rafter]

Beyond the fact that whether or not there is depth is almost entirely outside the federation's control, they did try to develop more skaters, it's just that (outside of dance) pretty much all of those skaters didn't work out. Growth being the number one problem (seriously, it's borderline comical how many promising male skaters grew to be over six feet tall) followed by injuries.

I'd also say, a lot of these discussions seem to proceed as if the norm is for Canada to have a medal contender (or even multiple medal contenders) in all four disciplines, which is very much not the case, historically. Which isn't to say that this men and pairs aren't weaker right now than the historical norm (women's I'd say is back to the norm).

Here we go again with the injury excuses. As for growing over 6’ tall, perhaps some of these guys should have moved into pairs or dance. Nadeau is doing it but at 25 years old.

I heard Duhamel say on Instagram that Eric Radford realized at 18 years old he didn’t have a 3A and so going into pairs was a way to “make it”. I don’t know, I guess a lot of singles skaters want the individual glory.

 

[skategal]

It’s Emma.

They have so many elements to learn.

Thanks! I edited it.

 

[chantilly]

Here we go again with the injury excuses. As for growing over 6’ tall, perhaps some of these guys should have moved into pairs or dance. Nadeau is doing it but at 25 years old.

I heard Duhamel say on Instagram that Eric Radford realized at 18 years old he didn’t have a 3A and so going into pairs was a way to “make it”. I don’t know, I guess a lot of singles skaters want the individual glory.

Interesting
Agreed that if you don’t have a quad or a triple axel by 18, as a male skater, consistently in competition,even back then, you should rethink your path and possibly switch to pairs in figure skating.

It always surprised me for instance that it took Japan this long to find a great pairs team, given their stacked women and men’s fields.

 

[skatingguy]

Here we go again with the injury excuses.

Injuries happen, and in a relatively small competitive field in Canada if the top athlete or two has a serious, and ongoing injury it's going to change the prospects for the sport.

As for growing over 6’ tall, perhaps some of these guys should have moved into pairs or dance. Nadeau is doing it but at 25 years old.

Maybe, but most of them were established singles skaters before they started to get tall so in many cases it was just too late. Nguyen was already World Junior Champion before he started to grow, and if you looked at him at 14 you never would have thought he'd end up at 5'10". Same with Roman Sadovsky. An entire generation of Canadian male singles skaters all got really tall relatively late in adolescence, and now the same thing has happened with Stephen Gogolev. It's just really bad luck.

 

[skategal]

Roman’s issue isn’t that he doesn’t have the tough jumps and PCS to compete.

He needs to find the consistency in competition.

Not sure how he does that but what he’s doing now isn’t working.

 

[Former Lurve Goddess]

Does Schizas have plans to add a quad or triple axel?

No offence, but it’s going to be hard without one.

Or maybe not

 

[Colonel Green]

Here we go again with the injury excuses.

It's a simple fact that numerous promising skaters have been derailed by injuries in the past few years. If you look back to 2018, you'll see Aurora as the near-unanimous choice for the most promising women's skater, and she had so many back and groin problems that she barely competed over the quadrennial that followed. Julianne and Charlie were the big hope in pairs, but we now know that her physical condition was so bad that it was actively dangerous for her to continue. And so on.

Roman’s issue isn’t that he doesn’t have the tough jumps and PCS to compete.

He needs to find the consistency in competition.

Not sure how he does that but what he’s doing now isn’t working.

It's both, and I would say they're probably related issues. It's likely difficult to build confidence as a competitor when you know that your takeoffs have to be perfect or else due to your size it's going to be almost impossible to make any corrections in the air.

Also, at this point being a genuine top man requires have at least three types of quads. Roman only has one reliable quad, height is definitely a hindrance in acquiring the top technical content.

 

[Rafter]

Do you think Canadian skaters are the only ones who get injured?

 

[Alilou]

Do you think Canadian skaters are the only ones who get injured?

Of course not, but we're such a bunch of polite coddled snowflakes that injuries bring us down every time
I dunno. What can we do? It's just how we are.

 

[Colonel Green]

Do you think Canadian skaters are the only ones who get injured?

No?

But this has been disproportionately an issue of late, and when we're a country that has always had a smaller number of top prospects that's always going to be more of a problem.

 

[Lemonade20]

Figure skating has declined for a long time. Even Skate Canada has cut back a lot, making it impossible for the upcoming future generation of skaters to succeed. They need skating seminars, competitions, more leadership and Slipchuck is failing at it. We have so many talented coaches and it feels like they're all focused only on the elite skaters. SC needs to focus on the younger groups (as young as 8)

 

[Sylvia]

Wesley Chiu, coached by Keegan Murphy, is one of 55 up-and-coming athletes and their coaches from across Canada to receive Petro-Canada's FACE™, or Fuelling Athlete and Coaching Excellence, grant:

Our Petro-Canada Fuelling Athlete and Coaching Excellence (FACE) Program

Petro-Canada's FACE, or Fuelling Athlete and Coaching Excellence, Program helps young athletes and their coaches by granting $5,000 each to help with the costs involved in training. Learn more.

www.petro-canada.ca

Potential Canadian Olympic athletes and Paralympic athletes are awarded a $10,000 FACE grant to help them along their journey, with $5,000 going directly to the athlete and $5,000 to the athlete’s coach. These grants are often used for training, equipment, coach education and travel expenses for competitions.

As was posted in the Canadian Men's thread, Chiu landed his third quad -- Lutz -- at the recent Junior Worlds camp: https://www.instagram.com/p/CaIRRaPgxvY/

 

[Sylvia]

Does Schizas have plans to add a quad or triple axel?

No offence, but it’s going to be hard without one.

She was practicing 3A on a pole harness back in March 2020: https://www.instagram.com/p/B9P5heMJwQI/

No offence, but I think she and her team are well aware of this.

 

[uandmfan]

I've followed Canadian skating for a long time. I think we are in trouble. The "so many retirements happened in 2018" excuse doesn't work for me. We had 3 medals in 88 and the skaters all retired. We still had a great quad to 92. More retirements in 94. We still had solid top 10 skaters that quad (I'm leaving women out of it). Until now, there has always been someone waiting in the wings.

What worries me most is that we are so far behind others technically, in everything but dance.

Pairs is my favourite. But we are way, way behind. I watched an Insta live with Meghan the other night and she said she thinks Canada needs to bring in foreign coaches to add something to Canadian pairs. I have seen Canadian 3twists go way down in quality over the years, so maybe there's something to that.

Skate Canada needs to take a hard and brutal look at itself and figure out what they need to do to support athletes in a way that leads to them being able to get back out front on the technical side. We've been there in the past, but something is obviously missing. This has been several years in the making. But continuing to make excuses won't get us anywhere.

Does anyone know how much of a funding cut is headed Skate Canada's way after no medals his Olympics? If I understand correctly, some funding is related to Olympic performance.

 

[Rafter]

Figure skating has declined for a long time. Even Skate Canada has cut back a lot, making it impossible for the upcoming future generation of skaters to succeed. They need skating seminars, competitions, more leadership and Slipchuck is failing at it. We have so many talented coaches and it feels like they're all focused only on the elite skaters. SC needs to focus on the younger groups (as young as 8)

Do we though? Dance is fine with Montreal and Keegan Murphy is doing good work. Lee Barkell will always have skaters. But too many skaters seem to be lacking in good posture, strong stroking, decent arms (more ballet training is needed) etc. Plus the technical stuff isn’t there, especially in men’s and pairs. At least some of the junior women are doing some triple-triple combos. The men? Other than Chui it’s bleak. And I already posted that Canadian men would be in a dismal state if Keegan Messing had not switched countries.

 

[manhn]

There is Brian Orser and his team too.

I don’t care about athletes switching countries. Our two top dance teams involve athletes switching countries.
Immigration is a thing in Canada, why shouldn’t that spill over to figure skating?

 

[Rafter]

I've followed Canadian skating for a long time. I think we are in trouble. The "so many retirements happened in 2018" excuse doesn't work for me. We had 3 medals in 88 and the skaters all retired. We still had a great quad to 92. More retirements in 94. We still had solid top 10 skaters that quad (I'm leaving women out of it). Until now, there has always been someone waiting in the wings.

What worries me most is that we are so far behind others technically, in everything but dance.

Pairs is my favourite. But we are way, way behind. I watched an Insta live with Meghan the other night and she said she thinks Canada needs to bring in foreign coaches to add something to Canadian pairs. I have seen Canadian 3twists go way down in quality over the years, so maybe there's something to that.

Skate Canada needs to take a hard and brutal look at itself and figure out what they need to do to support athletes in a way that leads to them being able to get back out front on the technical side. We've been there in the past, but something is obviously missing. This has been several years in the making. But continuing to make excuses won't get us anywhere.

Does anyone know how much of a funding cut is headed Skate Canada's way after no medals his Olympics? If I understand correctly, some funding is related to Olympic performance.

As far as I know, Skate Canada will lose tons of funding from the Own The Podium organization.

They must have received a decent amount after 2018 and the 4 medals. Possible it could go down to zero after this poor Olympics.

 

[Rafter]

There is Brian Orser and his team too.

I don’t care about athletes switching countries. Our two top dance teams involve athletes switching countries.
Immigration is a thing in Canada, why shouldn’t that spill over to figure skating?

Orser and his team who, let’s face it, have been more focused on their international skaters.

I have nothing wrong with athletes switching countries. Just saying that Cdn men would be in a dismal state if Messing had not done so.

 

[manhn]

So have IAM. Hopefully, more Canadians already in those environments get more focused attention and more Canadians go to them.

Bruno has a strong Japanese team, I don’t see why people are giving up on him as a coach of pairs.

 

[Lemonade20]

Do we though? Dance is fine with Montreal and Keegan Murphy is doing good work. Lee Barkell will always have skaters. But too many skaters seem to be lacking in good posture, strong stroking, decent arms (more ballet training is needed) etc. Plus the technical stuff isn’t there, especially in men’s and pairs. At least some of the junior women are doing some triple-triple combos. The men? Other than Chui it’s bleak. And I already posted that Canadian men would be in a dismal state if Keegan Messing had not switched countries.

Coaches can only do so much, which is why we need to have more seminars to cover more of this. It can be run by former elite skaters, ballet teachers, coaches from outside Canada, etc. Inspire the next generation, change it up.

 

[puglover]

I wonder what is happening at the grassroots. My kids coaches were happy to teach CanSkate and not above asking talented kids "which one is your Mommy"? My daughter begged for lessons when she watched the figure skaters practice. Now there is no figure skating club there that I am aware of and it is all hockey.

 

[wickedwitch]

Two of SC's issues that bother me every year:
-not getting their skaters enough experience. Honestly, it's a bit of a waste to have both North American fall B events at similar times. It prevents both the US and Canada from easily sending skaters who show promise slightly later in the season. If I were them, I'd arrange to alternate, so that one was November/December every year.
-outdated criteria for international assignments. Having a 3-3 is far, far more important than having a 3Lz. So why is the latter required for woman? This isn't 2002. Their skaters should be able to be focused on the point getters which are 3-3 combos.

 

[babayaga]

Does Schizas have plans to add a quad or triple axel?

No offence, but it’s going to be hard without one.

Not necessarily if Tutberidze's team is thoroughly investigated

 

[shutterbug]

FWIW, Maddie made CBC’s list of athletes to watch in 2026: Young Canadian Olympians poised to lead the way at Milan-Cortina in 2026

Leading the way in figure skating will be breakout star Madeline Schizas, who just turned 19 on Valentine's Day while competing in Beijing. After kicking the year off by winning her first national title, the Olympic debutante nearly put Canada on the podium in the team event despite the absence of men's national champion Keegan Messing.

Regarding the 3A, I wouldn’t be totally shocked if she showed up with one sometime in the next 4 years. Her double is very good, she’s small, strong, and very determined.

Canada did pretty well these Games, particularly in terms of overall medals. But two sports stood out in terms of the country falling behind: figure skating and curling.

Both sports are facing similar issues - declining participation and vastly improved global skill level. While there’s not much they can do about the rest of the world catching up, Curling Canada is working to get kids interested in the sport with their Rocks & Rings School Program. Unfortunately, something like this would be pretty tough to do for figure skating. Pre-pandemic, the school division in my neighbourhood had started a free elementary school level learn to skate program run by a Skate Canada coach that might have encouraged some kids to look into figure skating, but the only skating club in the area folded several years ago due to lack of interest. Chicken and egg.

 

[kwanfan1818]

When I first heard about curling in Canada described, it sounded more like a pub in Ireland than a rink, a place where the whole family could hang out, like a social club, rather than a rink, where people would focus on the game or the skating. The older people who adopted me at the Men's World Curling Championships in Victoria in 2005 were equally men and women, almost all couples, for whom it was their common activity.

 

[Dobre]

My Mom's contribution:

Find a pairs choreographer other than Marcotte.

I mean both top teams had snoozy choreography this season that didn't bring out the athletes' strengths. It's the Olympic season! Let those ladies bring the perk & the sex/edge, for gosh sake.

 

[litenkyckling]

Also, at this point being a genuine top man requires have at least three types of quads. Roman only has one reliable quad, height is definitely a hindrance in acquiring the top technical content.

As an aside, Roman fits into the same space in my mind as Jason Brown does. Wonderfully artistic, lovely to watch. He doesn't have the tech to be the top man but he has enough for him to get every opportunity to compete alongside the top man - if that makes sense? If he can find the consistency, that's the space I see him filling.

 

[litenkyckling]

So have IAM. Hopefully, more Canadians already in those environments get more focused attention and more Canadians go to them.

Bruno has a strong Japanese team, I don’t see why people are giving up on him as a coach of pairs.

Bruno arguably had one of the best Olympics of all the Canadians - a bronze (for now) medal and a top 7 finish - incredible stuff for such a new team. (If we ignore M-F and Patrice, of course).

I wonder what he could do for Evelyn and Trennt? I could be wrong, but as I understand it, MT/M work with Alison Purkiss but Bruno doesn't work with W/M?

 

[overedge]

As far as I know, Skate Canada will lose tons of funding from the Own The Podium organization.

They must have received a decent amount after 2018 and the 4 medals. Possible it could go down to zero after this poor Olympics.

I would be surprised if it goes to zero. But I also wouldn't be surprised if it declines. AFAIK Own the Podium looks at medal performance and also medal potential for the future, and I guess SC could point to Schizas....

Not to throw more gasoline on the fire, but there is also going to be a problem very soon with declining skating membership at the club level, because of the pandemic. Anecdotally, it seems that during the lockdown there were more than a few parents who discovered that kids could have as much fun doing sports like soccer as they could doing sports like skating. Sports that are cheaper to participate in and more accessible.

I'll admit that I am biased on this issue, but I think SC is making a huge mistake by focusing so strongly on programs in the competitive stream, and trying to funnel skaters into those (like what @Lemonade20 mentioned). I have not heard many good things at all about the redesign of the learn-to-skate program and the Star levels (former test stream), that skaters are not being given strong enough fundamentals. That will be another problem further down the road.

By focusing on the competitive stream and underfunding or ignoring other programs, SC is making it difficult for clubs to keep their members (as @puglover suggested is happening in her area). Look at the US, which did quite well at these Olympics. US Figure Skating, for all its faults, supports and promotes programs like adult skating, solo dance, and theatre on ice. I realize that not every SC club has the expertise or the ice time to run programs like these, but they are ways for skaters to stay in the sport if they're not in the competitive stream. And that means more $$$ for clubs and more participants to make things happen.

One of SC's "strategic imperatives" is "skate for life". Quite honestly, that's a joke. There is very little incentive for skaters who aren't in the competitive stream, or don't want to be, to stay in the sport. That is a huge problem that is going to affect the resources available to develop elite international-level skaters.

I'll just throw one other thing into the mix, which isn't just a Canadian problem. Some of my co-workers have their kids in CanSkate programs, and the kids love it. This week, after seeing what happened in Beijing with the women's competition, a couple of those parents are questioning whether they want to keep their kids in a sport that lets underage children be abused and doped. What happened in Russia is not SC's fault, but I wonder if the usual post-Olympic bump in skating registrations is going to happen this time around.

 

[honey]

Bruno arguably had one of the best Olympics of all the Canadians - a bronze (for now) medal and a top 7 finish - incredible stuff for such a new team. (If we ignore M-F and Patrice, of course).

I wonder what he could do for Evelyn and Trennt? I could be wrong, but as I understand it, MT/M work with Alison Purkiss but Bruno doesn't work with W/M?

What I find interesting about Bruno is that he's been involved for a very long time with top Canadian pairs teams. In the last decade, Canadian pairs have decidedly not been known for their great twists. So what clicked with M/K from Japan? Did they learn the basics of the triple twist elsewhere? Or was that element taught for the ground up with Bruno? I'd say the same to some degree about the distance on their throws. They are doing elements comparable in size to the top Russian teams and that's always been an area that Canada has really lagged behind in. I'd be really curious to know more about the development of the Japanese and how or what Bruno did differently with them to produce such exceptional quality elements.