Papadakis/Cizeron #9 - People Will See Them And Cry

twinklestar

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They are wonderful dancers, but this FD does not engage the audience even in France. Too dark, music, limited as it is, is depressing.
It's not something new. After the Mozart, they have always been skating to depressive music: Build a home, Oddudua, Moonlight Sonata, Duet, Forest Black. The Mozart wasn't very joyful either, but at least it had passion, HOPE and soul, and Mozart's genius. The Beethoven is a no-hope music, you sense the tragedy and the destiny, and the fact that Beethoven is becoming deaf. They should have skated to Debussy's Moonlight Sonata(it suits them better), but I don't know why they are being pushed into a certain type of "disenchanted world".
 

bcash

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307
Interesting. I haven't thought too much about it but you have a point. Every piece since Mozart had an element of melancholy and sense of fate. I def agree Beethoven's Sonata was funereal in its slow section.
 

Bigbird

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what's the point of watching the program if you're not supposed to think about what it might mean? what an odd thing to suggest, especially with an fd where the dancers' intent is to be thought-provoking.

You've misinterpreted my thoughts here, but that's okay. I was referring to your correlation regarding the poem itself and issues with vulnerability. But as I said before, this is an open space and the one doesn't necessarily have any bearing on another. Poetry is highly personal and subjective at times so it's quite acceptable if we don't see eye to eye.
 

bcash

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I don't hear tragedy in the Beethoven: I hear the strong shine of the moon on water and how it morphs as the water moves and ripples.

But there's a lot of Debussy I could see them skating to.

Moonlight Sonata is sort of a misnomer itself, given to the piece by someone much later and not privy to Beethoven’s vision. There’s a video of Barenboim talking about it on YouTube where he demonstrates how the score borrows from a funeral march from an earlier Mozart work. And I thought P/C‘s interpretation of that program definitely spoke of pathos, rather than silvery moonshine on the lake.
 

twinklestar

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99
I don't hear tragedy in the Beethoven: I hear the strong shine of the moon on water and how it morphs as the water moves and ripples.

But there's a lot of Debussy I could see them skating to.
The moon on the water is Debussy, not Beethoven. Anyone can hear that. Debussy is all about water. Beethoven is "earth". Cizeron is water and Papadakis air. Just wondering why they chose Beethoven and not Debussy! Bad choice.
 

ballettmaus

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15,851
I love their costumes this season. The only thing that's missing from the RD costumes is one of those oversized velvet scrunchies for Gabriella :D (Weren't the 80s more neon than pastel colors, though?)

The FD is just beautiful. So fluid, so mesmerizing. I just want to watch them go on and on forever.
 

lauravvv

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They should have skated to Debussy's Moonlight Sonata(it suits them better), but I don't know why they are being pushed into a certain type of "disenchanted world".
I don't think they are being pushed into anything. I don't remember about 'Moonlight Sonata' now, but, as far as I know, most of the music choices have been their own. P/C are not the kind of team who just blindly follow their coaches guidance. They have their own artistic vision.
 

Aussie Willy

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If there is one thing I have noticed in the discussions about P&C is that everyone is using a thesaurus to come up with new words to describe them, whether you like or dislike.

I have only seen the RD with the new costumes. Giving me Jane Fonda, Jamie Lee Curtis and Olivia Newton John flashbacks. So appropriate.
 

twinklestar

Member
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99
When you go on youtube under that song's video, you'll see many people commenting what it makes them feel. It's usually about suicidal people listening to that song. So when you're trying to say that this song is not a sad song, it's just out of common sense.
 

twinklestar

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I don't think they are being pushed into anything. I don't remember about 'Moonlight Sonata' now, but, as far as I know, most of the music choices have been their own. P/C are not the kind of team who just blindly follow their coaches guidance. They have their own artistic vision.
What's the use of paying a coach if they don't give you any advice? Of course they are influenced. Their music choice has always been the same pattern after Mozart (with wasn't Montreal's idea nor them). And the "they have their own artistic vision" is part of the marketing to sell their artsy "contemporary art" programs, if you didn't notice yet. This year; they agreed to do Fame though they hate kitsch and fear to look ridiculous. They also agreed to get rid of Christopher Dean because it was the French fed idea and that their coaches are in war with the French fed.
From the outside, regarding what happened with V/M, the coaches and them, they're not rebels.
 

kwanfan1818

RIP D-10
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33,186
When you go on youtube under that song's video, you'll see many people commenting what it makes them feel. It's usually about suicidal people listening to that song. So when you're trying to say that this song is not a sad song, it's just out of common sense.
A self-selecting group that is motivated to post.
 

lauravvv

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2,555
What's the use of paying a coach if they don't give you any advice? Of course they are influenced. Their music choice has always been the same pattern after Mozart (with wasn't Montreal's idea nor them). And the "they have their own artistic vision" is part of the marketing to sell their artsy "contemporary art" programs, if you didn't notice yet. This year; they agreed to do Fame though they hate kitsch and fear to look ridiculous. They also agreed to get rid of Christopher Dean because it was the French fed idea and that their coaches are in war with the French fed.
From the outside, regarding what happened with V/M, the coaches and them, they're not rebels.
Perhaps their music choices are "the same pattern" because that's their taste? Do you see anyone else from the Academy of Montreal using something like their FD music for this season or for season 2016/2017? It's known for a fact that 'Oddudua' etc. was Cizeron's choice. Forest Black's poem and the music for this FD is also their choice.

The part about "their own artistic vision" is not merely a quote taken from one of their or their coaches interviews. It's something that anyone who has read more than one or two of their interviews can clearly conclude.

Where does the information about them "getting rid" of Christopher Dean because their coaches told them to come from? Can you point me to a specific interview? Or is it merely your conclusion from the fact that they haven't used Dean as a choreographer this season? Or are those some "third hand" rumours from supposed "insiders"?
 

ballettmaus

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15,851
And the "they have their own artistic vision" is part of the marketing to sell their artsy "contemporary art" programs, if you didn't notice yet. This year; they agreed to do Fame though they hate kitsch and fear to look ridiculous. They also agreed to get rid of Christopher Dean because it was the French fed idea and that their coaches are in war with the French fed.
From the outside, regarding what happened with V/M, the coaches and them, they're not rebels.

And you know all that to be fact because?
 

yuna13fr

Member
Messages
18
Where does the information about them "getting rid" of Christopher Dean because their coaches told them to come from? Can you point me to a specific interview? Or is it merely your conclusion from the fact that they haven't used Dean as a choreographer this season? Or are those some "third hand" rumours from supposed "insiders"?

This is not true. Romain H gave an interview to TSL and he said that this year they couldn't make it happen, it's just about schedule issues. Gabriella and Guillaume said multiple times that they love working with Christopher dean.
 

laviemn

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619
Hiro Yoshida-Gillis answered a fan question about what Gabi & Guillaume are like as people, also said he has an interview coming.

The RD costumes successfully straddle a line between going all in with the concept and going overboard into Super Javi territory, which I was worried about. And Guillaume's costume is like waving a banner that says "I have zero insecurity about my masculinity" ;)
 

Isabelle.G

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262
This is not true. Romain H gave an interview to TSL and he said that this year they couldn't make it happen, it's just about schedule issues. Gabriella and Guillaume said multiple times that they love working with Christopher dean.

I think Romain also added that it's possible for Gabi and Guillaume to work on the enhancements with Christopher later in the season if their schedules allow it. And from the overall feedback of this collaboration, I don't think last season was the last time they worked together. :)
 

laviemn

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I love the programs Dean choreographed for them, but I would like them to work with different people. Tom Dickson, Lori Nichol, any great choreographer who has not produced countless ice dance programs. Someone of stature who will produce a fully realized dance, and not just some movement that Marie-France will overlay with her own choreo.
 

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