Papadakis/Cizeron #7 - A Matter of Confidentiality

[alain06fr]

Wow ... such a wealth of infos ... lots to think/dream about ...
I was thinking that the piece would be along the lines of Build a Home: "Rain in your black eyes" being the more atmospheric piece akin to "Sunday afternoon" and the Ballad "Duet" the underlying text , not unlike what they did with the cinematic orchestra's "build a home".
I am partial to both "Duet" and "SA" but, like VIETgrlTERIFA, I love "Duet". Can't wait to see what our "wizzards" have concocted!

As Icetigger pointed out, Duett (the beginning of the song, singing part) sounds more like the more mature song hence it provides a great atmosphere and frame to "drive" a bit the audience, considering the suave voice of Rachael Yamagata. Moving on with the instrumental part of SA was intended I guess to switch to a more intimate atmosphere conducive to release emotions and passions.

 

[lauravvv]

Are you Tiffany Zahorski's mother?

Yes, she is . On other ice dancing threads it has been known for a long time. Simply put, taz'smum is a long time member who is also quite active on the forum.

 

[Icetigger]

Yes, she is . On other ice dancing threads it has been known for a long time. Simply put, taz'smum is a long time member who is also quite active on the forum.

No smiley face from me, because I'm shocked that someone with a connection to a skater, which she is actively promoting through her avatar name, in a subjectively judged sport would be on a forum and behave as she has done in this thread, such as insulting another forum member in a crass and vulgar way, bringing in someone's parental relationship in order to insult them, and also trying to instigate instances of group bullying. In general she can have no idea who she is talking to or how they relate to the sport, and the same with regard to anyone just reading the forum. Beyond that, she is actively associating her own daughter who competes in an aesthetic discipline with ugliness.

 

[annie_mg]

Random question about the music, not only because of all the speculations about P/C's FD music (which I am DYING to see like all of you). I've been wondering for ages how much leeway skaters have to 'manipulate' the music by adding for example more bass to make it more dynamic, or adding more strings etc. Or are they not allowed to play with the music and it needs to be like in the original?

 

[Icetigger]

Random question about the music, not only because of all the speculations about P/C's FD music (which I am DYING to see like all of you). I've been wondering for ages how much leeway skaters have to 'manipulate' the music by adding for example more bass to make it more dynamic, or adding more strings etc. Or are they not allowed to play with the music and it needs to be like in the original?

There are lots of instances of music manipulation. The main reason for this is that it needs to have an audible beat, except for very small periods that are allowed in the rules. In addition, the change of rhythm and intensity means that people will often add additional sounds to give that change of rhythm. An example of this might be the Blues for Klook programme skated by Z/G this year. There is a three-time percussion added for one section, I believe to give a sense of a change of rhythm, which I don't think is in the original track. To me, such additional changes (such as adding a march rhythm, which is another trick used ) are a bit lazy and don't generally work, but the intent is to create a unified piece by using one piece of music, rather than creating a disjointed piece by using two unrelated pieces of music. Another example would be S/B's FD- check it out early in the season, where the change of rhythm and intensity is in terms of additional instrumentation (which might be in the original track), but at GP Helsinki, that section seemed to have been replaced by a whole new piece of music, possibly at the behest of the judges who might have informed that that that section didn't comprise enough of a change of, and that its continual use might result in them having lowered pcs, most likely in terms of composition. There is nothing in the rules that forbids this, and the rules indirectly encourage it by demanding the change of tempo or rhythm, and intensity.

Examples for P/C- there is a finger click added for the SD at Worlds 2017 which was not there for the rest of the season; some of moonlight sonata is not moonlight sonata, and the FD 2015 Worlds had had an audible beat added to it all season, of which I believe Hugo Chouinard (who does a lot of the music manipulation) had a demonstration video of on his website. currently his website is down, but for examples of the sort of thing that is done, I would check that out.

 

[annie_mg]

There are lots of instances of music manipulation. The main reason for this is that it needs to have an audible beat, except for very small periods that are allowed in the rules. In addition, the change of rhythm and intensity means that people will often add additional sounds to give that change of rhythm. An example of this might be the Blues for Klook programme skated by Z/G this year. There is a three-time percussion added for one section, I believe to give a sense of a change of rhythm, which I don't think is in the original track. To me, such additional changes (such as adding a march rhythm, which is another trick used ) are a bit lazy and don't generally work, but the intent is to create a unified piece by using one piece of music, rather than creating a disjointed piece by using two unrelated pieces of music. Another example would be S/B's FD- check it out early in the season, where the change of rhythm and intensity is in terms of additional instrumentation (which might be in the original track), but at GP Helsinki, that section seemed to have been replaced by a whole new piece of music, possibly at the behest of the judges who might have informed that that that section didn't comprise enough of a change of, and that its continual use might result in them having lowered pcs, most likely in terms of composition. There is nothing in the rules that forbids this, and the rules indirectly encourage it by demanding the change of tempo or rhythm, and intensity.

Examples for P/C- there is a finger click added for the SD at Worlds 2017 which was not there for the rest of the season; some of moonlight sonata is not moonlight sonata, and the FD 2015 Worlds had had an audible beat added to it all season, of which I believe Hugo Chouinard (who does a lot of the music manipulation) had a demonstration video of on his website. currently his website is down, but for examples of the sort of thing that is done, I would check that out.

Thank you, this was very informative! You must have studied music or something. I did, so I hear the changes (and awful cuts, which happens very often!!!). Sometimes I wonder if what I'm hearing is just a consequence of the bad music quality on youtube, but I guess not.

 

[Icetigger]

Thank you, this was very informative! You must have studied music or something. I did, so I hear the changes (and awful cuts, which happens very often!!!). Sometimes I wonder if what I'm hearing is just a consequence of the bad music quality on youtube, but I guess not.

I think that the additional instrumentation for a different rhythm more often than not doesn't work, because the rhythm is as much a feel as a set of mathematically different notes that can be laid on top of another, so you end up with two different feels going on at the same time. That's something to look out for.

 

[allezfred]

No smiley face from me, because I'm shocked that someone with a connection to a skater, which she is actively promoting through her avatar name, in a subjectively judged sport would be on a forum and behave as she has done in this thread, such as insulting another forum member in a crass and vulgar way, bringing in someone's parental relationship in order to insult them, and also trying to instigate instances of group bullying. She has no idea who she is talking to or how they relate to the sport, and the same with regard to anyone just reading the forum. Beyond that, she is actively associating her own daughter who competes in a aesthetic discipline with ugliness.

I’d say spreading rumours under a pseudonym that an ice dance team’s coaches are conspiring against them is far worse than anything taz’smum has posted, but maybe that’s just me.....

 

[Icetigger]

I’d say spreading rumours under a pseudonym that an ice dance team’s coaches are conspiring against them is far worse than anything taz’smum has posted, but maybe that’s just me.....

A meaningless, childish, and unevidenced relativism that does nothing to make the points made about Tiffany Zahorski's mum's behaviour here any less correct........

 

[MarieM]

my my my.

 

[allezfred]

A meaningless, childish, and unevidenced relativism that does nothing to make the points made about Tiffany Zahorski's mum's behaviour here any less correct........

Maybe they are correct in your own mind and that of your “friend” who is egging you on. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Even the mothers of ice dancers.

 

[Icetigger]

Maybe they are correct in your own mind and that of your “friend” who is egging you on. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Even the mothers of ice dancers.

No-one is "egging" me on (I was brought in to the discussion by Tiffany Zahorski's mum, who decided to comment in her now deleted post about me- in an attempt at group bullying). Opinion and behaviour are not synonyms. She is of course entitled to her opinion, but that post expressed no opinion on anything related to this thread, and was just a continuance of her nasty behaviour over the whole of that page; except that time, directed at me.

 

[cholla]

She has no idea who she is talking to or how they relate to the sport

I wouldn't bet on that.

 

[alain06fr]

It’s been a while that the word “conspiracy” has been widely emptied of its meaning by using it to openly twist someone else’s words and create fake drama.

Just as one example, there were some debates about conflicts of interests and the way such situations would be managed by coaches. Strangely enough, some people seem to not be even aware that coaches themselves were led to talk about this situation during interviews or newspaper articles… That was a public debate. Subjects like this one will for sure show up again in the future. This discussion was interesting until some people jumped in to twist everything, create the chaos and fake drama on purpose to first accuse those involved to spread rumors about the coaches and to finally bash them systematically afterwards. On top of this, they started instances of group bullying.

Once again, this is just one example among many others as the same scenario was repeated several times to prevent any discussions on topics bothering the same group of people. Are these people interested in Gabriella and Guillaume’s programs, music, etc.? Everyone will have their own opinion regarding the information and topics discussed.

 

[alain06fr]

your “friend” who is egging you on.

Another conspiracy?
BTW, where did you get that from?

 

[barbarafan]

Maybe they are correct in your own mind and that of your “friend” who is egging you on. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Even the mothers of ice dancers.

Especially ones who are intelligent, extremely knowledgeable about the subjects at hand and who offer fair and well thought out opinions of all dancers as well as other disciplines and the way things generally work in several different countries.

 

[barbarafan]

It is freezing in Mtl with a bitter wind....14 degrees F, -4C bbbrrrrr...The ladies at Inge Solar Memorial -Alpen Trophy is on but the ice dance only starts on Friday. A very good field. The livestream is very good...The commentary is in English.
https://livestream.com/sportevents/CSAUT2018
There is also livescoring...which I really like...
http://skateaustria.vs91-250-98-130.cloud-he.de/img/competition/4.2018_19/040/SEG003.HTM

 

[Icetigger]

Especially ones who are intelligent, extremely knowledgeable about the subjects at hand and who offer fair and well thought out opinions of all dancers as well as other disciplines and the way things generally work in several different countries.

Not relevant to the nasty behaviour she exhibited over the last page.

 

[allezfred]

Not relevant to the nasty behaviour she exhibited over the last page.

Here's a suggestion - put her on ignore and we can go back to discussing the topic at hand.

 

[SHARPIE]

Do you know what?

If the shit on this thread doesn’t stop or I get another email land in my in box addressed to Allezfred filled with profanity and ludicrous accusations about him being a V/M fan or people keep on threatening members via YouTube....



I will close this thread and any other new fan threads for P/C.

You have been warned.

 

[SHARPIE]

I am reminded of some crazies french fans from the old old A&P time. That's how Gwendal got rid of all french fans around him and forbid them to enter any rinks they were training at. While all the fans from abroad could come and go. Showing respect.
Maybe some over here could learn a thing or two there, before they're kicked out of those same rinks.

Oh God, those crazies.

 

[Icetigger]

I would advise the following for better moderation....

1, The point at which which you should have stepped in was when Taz’s mum wrote " Rearrange these words into a well known expression - arse up far so his own" in a deliberate and crass personal attack against a member. To me, that's unacceptable. Unfortunately, when someone behaves in a nasty way like this, they give permission to other people to do the same; and unless you counter such behaviours, those permissions remain unchallenged.

2, Allezfred moderates threads like these in an incendiary way. Part of the issue as to why people feel they can respond and conduct themselves in the manner such as Taz’s mum is because of that conduct. I've seen him get into arguments with people like Twilight1 on threads where his behaviour has been of an extremely low level. I also recall for example a personal attack he made on Frau Muller in the Skating Lesson thread, regarding her thumbnail pic. He also misrepresents what has been said in order to play to a particular audience. None of these behaviours are moderate, appropriate, or fall in line with good moderation.

3, The last post you made was a quote from MarieM which was an oblique personal attack irrelevant to the subject of this thread. You are giving mixed messages by immediately underlining unacceptable behaviour but then condoning an example of it within your next post (and that mixed message has then allowed MarieM to post another personal attack on some members here in the post that follows this one)

Any alleged threats over youtube, or via the messaging here, if actually the case, are of course unacceptable. However, I feel you and Allezfred need to look to yourselves and your own conduct, in order to make sure this thread can remain in place and be an appropriate discussion place for fans of Papadakis and Cizeron: don't send out mixed messages; don't moderate in an incendiary manner, and don't allow crass and vulgar personal attacks to go unchallenged.

 

[MarieM]

Oh God, those crazies.

Looks like they didn't die out or fade out. They're reincarnated
I must apologize. Because I never ever thought I'd see the same kind ever again, here of all places

 

[Wyliefan]

I think the moderators know how to moderate without help. They've been doing it for a while now.

 

[Icetigger]

I think the moderators know how to moderate without help. They've been doing it for a while now.

I've said all I am going to say on the matter (and everything I have had to say has been said on this thread). All the best!

 

[Peepsquick]

I think Icetigger has a point and I would never count him/her among the so called "crazies". There has been a nasty undertow to many postings on this thread lately. Why? Let's celebrate Gabi and Guillaume and their hard work.
The long wait this season has certainly been frustrating but come on!
Please, please let us not fall again into last season's cesspit... we have to deal with enough crap on a daily basis (at least for those of us living in the US!)

 

[SHARPIE]

Alright guys, after further multiple emails, I have no choice but to go through on my threat at least on a temporary basis.

Such a shame.


If you’d like to make your feelings known on the matter then address them to [email protected] who has sent me numerous abusive emails this afternoon.