Opining on IJS scoring system: 5 calls to action by Jackie Wong - agree/disagree/your suggestions?

[overedge]

Skate America in Atlantic City was one of the first international events where IJS started making an impact on how skaters and choreographers put programs together. I remember people in the audience being absolutely horrified by how ugly the pairs programs were, especially the winners (who IIRC were coached by Moskvina). And yeah, a lot of the programs were not really enjoyable to watch - a lot of bizarre body positions and lifts - but boy did those programs maximize the points. So "hacking" the system has been going on since IJS started - it's not new.

 

[Vagabond]

I don't think this links to what you intended - though maybe I've missed something and the joke went over my head.
Sybil Personalities
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYMTyN_BZ8Y

That was meant for another thread, along with this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4keH9mngPRk

Thank you!

 

[Rogue]

-Cap the number of jump elements that receive a 2nd half bonus to avoid ridiculously unbalanced back-loaded programs

This. I disliked ridiculously unbalanced front-loaded programs under the old system and now dislike ridiculously back-loaded programs under the current system.

 

[Rock2]

The result is that a fraction of a mark on a level 3 step sequence is what will probably decide the Olympic podium.

Pretty much. Ice dance is the extreme example of where the other disciplines are headed as everyone maxes out their tech. Look at ladies for example, esp in Russia. They're getting there first. Lots of talent out there with same 7 triples, level 4 spins and level 3/4 footwork. The panel gets to choose its winners now via GOE and PCS. Same with dance although as you point out, at the very top of the podium, one level on one element can shift the result.

The 'favorite' skaters are getting GoE and PCS heaped on them and it's kinda cringeworthy. 9s for average skating and little power. All these level 4, +3 spins out there....that I guess would be on par with Lucinda Ruh if she was still competing....? We've lost sight of what excellence really is as we use the marking to assert an agenda.

....and this is why giving the subjective part of the scoring more weight, as is recommended by RockerSkating, gets a huge NO vote from me. I personally love the structure of the scoring system including the aesthetic components; we're just not yet responsible with it.

 

[Rock2]

This. I disliked ridiculously unbalanced front-loaded programs under the old system and now dislike ridiculously back-loaded programs under the current system.

I don't think you cap it. Just need to pay for it in the choreo mark. And because PCS aren't currently properly marked -- being dragged along by your tech a la 6.0 -- it's for now a good strategy choice. In the case of Zagitova I also find her program starts to look like water circling into an emptying drain. The program slows down and her elements pull more inward toward the center of the ice so she can fit them all in. From an artistic standpoint, you completely lose the plot as well. I don't know if you can rationalize a 7 in CH or an 8 in SS.....

I'd like to keep an open mind. I wish ISU or a judging panel was forced at times to publish lengthy analysis of the results and marks of one or more athletes, either to admit poor judging or help us understand why the marks are graded properly according to the rule book. But they have no appetite for this. I'd love to see a challenge system as a result. For now not to alter the result, but to get more transparency on the scoring, and to help the ISU regulate itself into consistently credible marking.

 

[Anyasnake]

Ya sort of.

Dance is a tough one, now. TES is all bunched up which means callers can bump someone off the podium with a level change. The panel has just as much power now to slot the skaters through PCS with all the narrow TES margins.
I wouldn't be surprised if level 5 and 6 elements were introduced to the rulebook soon enough....

That would kill the programs to add even more elements I think. They are already more now, than in Sochi (hence why the scores are much higher today, the Base Value is much much higher).
Through the years there many more elements in Ice dance programs but less and less time for the rest. When Marina had 1&2 everything was about showcasing how difficult it was and it did felt busy sometimes (although Meryl&Charlie hit the jackpot with Scheherazade). Some programs today feel A LOT more personnal.

 

[Rock2]

That would kill the programs to add even more elements I think. They are already more now, than in Sochi (hence why the scores are much higher today, the Base Value is much much higher).
Through the years there many more elements in Ice dance programs but less and less time for the rest. When Marina had 1&2 everything was about showcasing how difficult it was and it did felt busy sometimes (although Meryl&Charlie hit the jackpot with Scheherazade). Some programs today feel A LOT more personnal.

I was saying adding additional levels to existing elements (which max out at Level 4)....not # of elements.

 

[Anyasnake]

I was saying adding additional levels to existing elements (which max out at Level 4)....not # of elements.

That... is a possibility. Even though it's so hard to reach level4 in step sequences already, what would level 5 look like ? or a level 5 lift and twizzle ? I think there is the change in GOEs next season anyway (from -5 to +5).

 

[skatepixie]

It's actually been longer since IJS was first implemented (fall 2003 at Nebelhorn) than it was between the abolition of figures in international competition (1990) and the introduction of IJS.

Please don't make me feel old...

 

[starrynight]

That... is a possibility. Even though it's so hard to reach level4 in step sequences already, what would level 5 look like ? or a level 5 lift and twizzle ? I think there is the change in GOEs next season anyway (from -5 to +5).

I think that a lot of teams already deserve a level 5 or 6 for lifts given what can earn a level 4.

As I said before, GOE increases won't encourage increased difficulty of elements in dance. I do wonder if it will do the exact opposite and encourage easier elements performed better (which is generally the point of the rule changes for singles)

The idea (as I see it) of the GOE increases is to provide higher marks for well done triples as opposed to scratchy shaky quads. To slow the technical rush forward.

But I am just very interested in seeing what effect it will have on ice dance. Or will the judges just upgrade the GOE scoring for each team without requiring there to be any changes in the manner of skating?