Online Student Support, Tutoring, Special Needs Support

[Angelskates]

I work in the field of special needs, and in addition to running a very small school, also work with some students individually. The individual students have a variety of issues, dyslexia, dyscalculia, global delay etc. One family that I work with (I work with three of their kids) is considering relocating to another country, and have asked me if I would consider working with the kids via Skype.

My sessions are usually really interactive and multi sensory, one of the kids can't walk (she scuttles up the stairs on her bum, so she can be mobile, but she can't stand) but we still move quite a bit - playing games, ball throwing etc. The other kids (who are a little older) are more in their seats, but again, it's quite interactive with games and multi sensory activities.

I don't want to say no to this family if I can help it - they have been working with me really well for several years after more than two years on my waiting list. They would consider not moving if I say no...but that means being apart from their dad, who will definitely be relocating.

So, my question to you, wise FSUers, is this... can I make this work? And if so, do you have any ideas? I consider myself a very creative teacher, but I can't wrap my head around this at all! I know some people do online/Skype tutoring, but all of the places I have Googled say they do it, but don't mention how it works... Honestly, I'm not even sure I can picture it for tutoring, let alone special needs or learning support.

The mum mentioned that she could buy any of the games I use so they have a set and so do I, but logically and time-wise, I don't think this is ideal...but maybe I am just being too closed minded with such a foreign idea.

Any suggestions or resources welcome!

 

[Spun Silver]

No idea, and what a tough position you are in... but that is very wonderful work you do (speaking as the aunt of a special needs student).

 

[BigB08822]

You have to decide, as the teacher, can you do this effectively. If you don't think you can then you need to be honest. Give it some time and thought, maybe you will figure it out but if you can't then let them make the decision to move and find someone else or to stay. Don't put all of the weight of their family situation on your shoulders. You just decide whether or not skype lessons will work out for those children. They get to make the family decisions after that.

 

[Prancer]

I have a lot of experience with online teaching but only a little with teaching via Skype and none with special needs kids, so I don't have a lot of advice.

Skype is a so-so platform, but in general, internet chat works like a conversation, so if you teach by talking with your students, it works mostly, provided everyone is on the same page about what is supposed to be accomplished. I don't know how you would do physical games--vocal games, maybe, but you can't throw a ball over the internet. The technology often presents challenges--it doesn't always work and doesn't always work well when it does work.

 

[TheGirlCanSkate]

I would rather use Google Chat - and they can record so they can review what you work on. I have used it for meetings, but it sounds like you are very hands on and movement based. It would be difficult to get a good view of what they are doing while you demonstrate.

I see this with piano lessons, you need to have the person recieving be very in tune with their body and lots of words. For example, how you curve your wrists, finger placement, how hard you strike the keys and how you strike the keys. Since you can't just move their hand, it only works best with the best teachers and the best of students (a professional classical pianist who has pain and needs to work with someone who can see what they are doing wrong and hear instructions on how to fix it and to be able to do it vs an intermediate student who is learning how to play (their focus is learning)).

My daughter is very bright but learns best with hands on coaching. Before she was 10, she could not hear instructions from a coach and make corrections when they did not touch her as she was doing the exercise. Now that she is older, she is fine with that style of learning. Before then, it would have taken longer for her to catch on.

 

[Angelskates]

No idea, and what a tough position you are in... but that is very wonderful work you do (speaking as the aunt of a special needs student).

Thanks, I really enjoy it.

You have to decide, as the teacher, can you do this effectively. If you don't think you can then you need to be honest. Give it some time and thought, maybe you will figure it out but if you can't then let them make the decision to move and find someone else or to stay. Don't put all of the weight of their family situation on your shoulders. You just decide whether or not skype lessons will work out for those children. They get to make the family decisions after that.

Of course, I'm going to be honest with them. I've known this family for years and have been very involved in their lives. I'm not going to say no until I know it's not going to work, but I'm not going to say yes if it can't work either. We'll probably actually try it for some sessions before a final decision is made. Where they will probably be moving doesn't have many (maybe not any) services, so I also want to make sure I give it a proper shot.

I have a lot of experience with online teaching but only a little with teaching via Skype and none with special needs kids, so I don't have a lot of advice.

Skype is a so-so platform, but in general, internet chat works like a conversation, so if you teach by talking with your students, it works mostly, provided everyone is on the same page about what is supposed to be accomplished. I don't know how you would do physical games--vocal games, maybe, but you can't throw a ball over the internet. The technology often presents challenges--it doesn't always work and doesn't always work well when it does work.

Skype is the best-working platform here, as far as video chat is concerned anyway. Can you give me some more information about the online teaching? Is it one-to-one, or more lecture style with a group? I've worked out the ball throwing exercises easily (so that it still involves a ball, and the goal is the same), and some of the other exercises - even some of the multi sensory ones - that can involve me facilitating rather that actually needing to do the activity, though the mum would obviously need to buy some stuff. How do you see the kids' work? Do they just hold it up? My kids are encouraged to talk as they work, so that's a good thing...but sometimes they actually talk well, and write something completely different!

I would rather use Google Chat - and they can record so they can review what you work on. I have used it for meetings, but it sounds like you are very hands on and movement based. It would be difficult to get a good view of what they are doing while you demonstrate.

I see this with piano lessons, you need to have the person recieving be very in tune with their body and lots of words. For example, how you curve your wrists, finger placement, how hard you strike the keys and how you strike the keys. Since you can't just move their hand, it only works best with the best teachers and the best of students (a professional classical pianist who has pain and needs to work with someone who can see what they are doing wrong and hear instructions on how to fix it and to be able to do it vs an intermediate student who is learning how to play (their focus is learning)).

My daughter is very bright but learns best with hands on coaching. Before she was 10, she could not hear instructions from a coach and make corrections when they did not touch her as she was doing the exercise. Now that she is older, she is fine with that style of learning. Before then, it would have taken longer for her to catch on.

Googles services (mail, Google Chat) is blocked here, so I would need to use a VPN which would make it slower. Skype actually works really well for video chat.

My sister, who is blind, teaches piano via Skype. It blows my mind, but she is very successful, and most of her students are blind or vision impaired as well.

Does anyone have any experience with the online whiteboards that both people can see and work on?

 

[Japanfan]

Your idea of of doing several trials to see if it works is a good one. You have an opportunity to develop an on-line program, which could be very, very useful to a lot of kids with special needs who don't have direct access to services.

 

[Angelskates]

Your idea of of doing several trials to see if it works is a good one. You have an opportunity to develop an on-line program, which could be very, very useful to a lot of kids with special needs who don't have direct access to services.

Actually, this is not a field I want to get involved in (online support). I have enough of a waiting list with in-person kids, which is also why I don't like the idea of having sessions to see if it works...because I do have other in-person kids who also need my services. I'm giving this my best shot for this one family, but have no plans to continue it further than that. I've asked the family not to promote that I am even considering it, because I don't want this to be my "new job".

I enjoy in-person work a lot, and I think the environment in which the kids have their sessions (with me, and my pets, in a house) is a huge part of why my kids enjoy themselves and progress where they haven't been able to previously. It's amazing how patting a dog or playing with the cats for one minute as a rewards serves as a huge motivator.

 

[Prancer]

Skype is the best-working platform here, as far as video chat is concerned anyway. Can you give me some more information about the online teaching? Is it one-to-one, or more lecture style with a group? I've worked out the ball throwing exercises easily (so that it still involves a ball, and the goal is the same), and some of the other exercises - even some of the multi sensory ones - that can involve me facilitating rather that actually needing to do the activity, though the mum would obviously need to buy some stuff. How do you see the kids' work? Do they just hold it up? My kids are encouraged to talk as they work, so that's a good thing...but sometimes they actually talk well, and write something completely different!

There is online teaching for an entire class and online tutoring, which is one on one.

For an entire class, I have a system set up online, with readings and assignments. I generally don't lecture for online courses, but if I have to, I record it and post the video. Students submit their work to an online dropbox. Email is critical; they need to be able to keep in touch when they aren't on camera. If your kids can't do all this, the parents will have to or else I don't see how this would work.

I have learning platform software for all this now, but I have done without it in the past. You would need a dedicated web site for your lessons; for testing purposes, I wouldn't worry about security, but if you go through with this, I would recommend locking up the site so your kids can post things safely. You can set up a private YouTube channel or iTunes account for lectures or recorded activities.

For one-on-one tutoring, I usually have some sort of lesson plan and we work through it, although in a really relaxed, casual sort of way. Once the student gets used to the camera (in the beginning, they go out of range all the time), then it works like any other video chat. If your kids are doing handwritten or drawn work, you would either have to have them hold it up or they would have to have a scanner so they could send it to you or both (I think both would be best, at least in some cases, so they get immediate feedback and then specific comments). But you can talk to them as they work and they can talk back; after a while, you get used to it and it's almost like being there.

I usually do both of these things with a class, with a general class setup for the class as a whole and online tutoring for the students who struggle. But my students are not supposed to get a lot of one-on-one time, which I think is different from what you would do. I am supposed to be cultivating independence, so we have brief, relaxed sessions on camera and then they go off and work independently.

 

[jlai]

Being a family member of a special needs person my instinct is no on the Skype. Ymmv

 

[Lilia A]

Does anyone have any experience with the online whiteboards that both people can see and work on?

I use WebEx for online tutoring, you can share your screen and if you want your student to share his, you just assign him as the meeting's admin (it takes two seconds). There is also a whiteboard option, but I've never used it before (I just use a Goggle word sheet so we can save the work on Google drive, but you can also use the computer's notepad and then send it by email). It's fairly easy to use but at times it can be a nightmare (say if the internet connection isn't good, there can be audio and screen delays).

I'm not an expert on learning disabilities, but I do have two students who have one. I find that they get particularly distracted in online classes because the environment they're in may not be the best one for learning. So if you agree on tutoring him online, I would advise asking the parents to make sure he's not in an environment where he could potentially get distracted (no TV, no magazines, no conversations that can be heard from neighbours, etc). Then again, the people I just mentioned both have ADHD so it may be just them getting very distracted.

Ultimately the decision is yours. Obviously if the parents want to keep you even for distance learning, it means you're doing an awesome job with the student so thumbs up from me

 

[Angelskates]

Thanks @Prancer, that's all useful.

Being a family member of a special needs person my instinct is no on the Skype. Ymmv

Being a special needs teacher, and with family and friends with special needs (my mum and sister are both blind, and both use technology a lot. My mum is a counsellor and also works doing supported decision making for people with disabilities, and trains people to work in the field, and she has done a lot of work via Skype -run group and individual workshops etc.), I have to ask why you dismiss it so easily? Some of my kids have successfully had speech and language therapy via Skype, and I know people back home who do my kind of work via distance learning (they, or their students, live in remote areas) which is why I am not dismissing it. There are several well known places who work with kids with ASD and related disorders, communication disorders and the like via distance. I want to help these kids if I can, and if I can grow professionally through helping them, even more awesome. I think a lot of whether it can work depends on the individuals involved.

I use WebEx for online tutoring, you can share your screen and if you want your student to share his, you just assign him as the meeting's admin (it takes two seconds). There is also a whiteboard option, but I've never used it before (I just use a Goggle word sheet so we can save the work on Google drive, but you can also use the computer's notepad and then send it by email). It's fairly easy to use but at times it can be a nightmare (say if the internet connection isn't good, there can be audio and screen delays).

I'm not an expert on learning disabilities, but I do have two students who have one. I find that they get particularly distracted in online classes because the environment they're in may not be the best one for learning. So if you agree on tutoring him online, I would advise asking the parents to make sure he's not in an environment where he could potentially get distracted (no TV, no magazines, no conversations that can be heard from neighbours, etc). Then again, the people I just mentioned both have ADHD so it may be just them getting very distracted.

Ultimately the decision is yours. Obviously if the parents want to keep you even for distance learning, it means you're doing an awesome job with the student so thumbs up from me

The parents already know I would make them have a dedicated space, not just to avoid distractions, but also because the kids then take their "Angelskates time" more seriously. Plus I would want all of the resources they need for my session easily and quickly accessible.

I've decided with the parents to trial it for a few sessions for each child, and then see. Talking to some friends and mentors back home, it seems this is more common than I thought, and I like the idea that I am forced to be even more creative, or at least creative in a different way. The parents have also said they'd like me to consider in the trial, that while it may not be as effective as the current set up, their options are not just limited, but essentially nothing. I've told them that we'll wait and see how the trials go, but that it may be a better option long term, for me to train (via distance) a local person to work with their children.

 

[GarrAargHrumph]

I like the idea of some trial lessons while they are still in your country, to see how things go. I'd also ask the parents about their ability to be there in the room with the child when you're doing your thing, so they can take on some of the active role that you normally have.

I also like the idea of them hiring what I might term a local "para professional" to be your assistant. You'd train them, and they would be in the room doing the active things that you normally do, while you direct.

 

[jlai]

Thanks @Prancer, that's all useful.
Being a special needs teacher, and with family and friends with special needs (my mum and sister are both blind, and both use technology a lot. My mum is a counsellor and also works doing supported decision making for people with disabilities, and trains people to work in the field, and she has done a lot of work via Skype -run group and individual workshops etc.), I have to ask why you dismiss it so easily?

From my experience, in clinic speech therapy (or occupational therapy, not sure what therapy you do) isn't as effective as the therapist being right there in the real setting making adjustments in the actual setting as the child goes. Doing therapy in clinic means the parents have to see what you do, take it back home and try to replicate it in a real setting. And often there is a lot of disconnect happen between what happens in clinic and the real setting.

Of course, some therapy, like the PROMPT method, has physiological basis and is likely to be effective regardless of setting.

That said, I'm adding a caveat to my own post by saying I'm basing this on the sample of 1 (one family member) who has no physical disability (only developmental/intellectual ones)

 

[maatTheViking]

You might want to look into a wide angle web cam, instead of a regular one. Usually used for conferencing, they covers a wider angle of the room. It might be useful to see more of your classroom, and for you to see them while they move around? Some of these also tracks movement a bit, so they will try to turn and track you.

 

[Prancer]

From my experience, in clinic speech therapy (or occupational therapy, not sure what therapy you do) isn't as effective as the therapist being right there in the real setting making adjustments in the actual setting as the child goes. Doing therapy in clinic means the parents have to see what you do, take it back home and try to replicate it in a real setting. And often there is a lot of disconnect happen between what happens in clinic and the real setting.

That could be an advantage of being on camera, however--sessions can be recorded and the parents could play them back.

 

[Angelskates]

Doing therapy in clinic means the parents have to see what you do, take it back home and try to replicate it in a real setting. And often there is a lot of disconnect happen between what happens in clinic and the real setting.

Actually, this is no longer true. Many places (including mine) don't allow parents in to observe (we only do if it is scheduled, and the parent/s actually participate and have been pre-taught or explained the activity) because kids tend to be more relaxed and natural without their parents there, at least after the first few sessions. Parents can be huge distraction. Sometimes the parents can watch in an observation room, but in my experience, they're usually not, but instead are taking the time to do other things in their one hour without their kid! In my field, parents are mostly a nightmare, they want to interject, prompt their kids, answer for the kids etc. They're better in a meeting or scheduled session, knowing the theory, and being able to see the suggestions and recommendations for home written in our notes and reports. Again, depends on everyone involved - I don't think it can work with anyone, but think it can definitely be successful with some. Not sure yet if that's me and these kids, but willing to try. ETA: @Prancer I agreed, and think reviewing things with the parents on a recording is actually a really great resource, and something I've never used, but actually have wanted to (previously when we've tried to record, the kids have seen the camera and so it didn't work).

@GarrAarghHrumph - I thought of the assistant thing too, but it would be more time for me, and more expense for the parents, so I'm just going to try it with me first.

@maatTheViking - I'm thinking of trying it with what I have first (hesitate to put any money into this in case it doesn't work out) and then see. If from a couple of trials, I think it can work, I'll see if anyone I know has one I can borrow and then see if I think it's worth buying one.

 

[jlai]

Actually, this is no longer true. Many places (including mine) don't allow parents in to observe (we only do if it is scheduled, and the parent/s actually participate and have been pre-taught or explained the activity) because kids tend to be more relaxed and natural without their parents there, at least after the first few sessions. Parents can be huge distraction. Sometimes the parents can watch in an observation room, but in my experience, they're usually not, but instead are taking the time to do other things in their one hour without their kid! In my field, parents are mostly a nightmare, they want to interject, prompt their kids, answer for the kids etc. They're better in a meeting or scheduled session, knowing the theory, and being able to see the suggestions and recommendations for home written in our notes and reports. Again, depends on everyone involved - I don't think it can work with anyone, but think it can definitely be successful with some.

But that's exactly why it won't work for some. Maybe parents not being there helps you do the session, but even with you reviewing things with them, parents often go back to their daily default routine when they are with their kid, which means they don't adjust the routine to add in the few little things you suggest for them. I don't wanna be sexist, but where I live, from observation, it's often the dad that doesn't incorporate any of the suggestions. This is especially true, when the parents think this is now the specialist job "to improve my child." (meaning you)

E.g. I attended sessions by Hanen and the dads who attended were like, "you mean I have to remember all these little things when I play with my kid?" And to make it not sexist, in general, family don't often incorporate what therapists suggest, and what happens in clinic stays in clinic. You really need a parent who understands the principle behind it, and apply the ideas at the right places at the right times. Which means it's more effective for a parent to learn the therapy and do it than for the kid to go to a clinical session.
But again, I'm caveating this by saying this is from my limited experience of 1 and observations of a limited sets of parents.

 

[Angelskates]

But that's exactly why it won't work for some. Maybe parents not being there helps you do the session, but even with you reviewing things with them, parents often go back to their daily default routine when they are with their kid, which means they don't adjust the routine to add in the few little things you suggest for them. I don't wanna be sexist, but where I live, from observation, it's often the dad that doesn't incorporate any of the suggestions. This is especially true, when the parents think this is now the specialist job "to improve my child." (meaning you)

E.g. I attended sessions by Hanen and the dads who attended were like, "you mean I have to remember all these little things when I play with my kid?" And to make it not sexist, in general, family don't often incorporate what therapists suggest, and what happens in clinic stays in clinic. You really need a parent who understands the principle behind it, and apply the ideas at the right places at the right times. Which means it's more effective for a parent to learn the therapy and do it than for the kid to go to a clinical session.
But again, I'm caveating this by saying this is from my limited experience of 1 and observations of a limited sets of parents.

For the most part, the parents (and teachers, and support workers etc.) do their bit, but so does the child. For me, it's about empowering the child to recognise what they can do, and then they want to show their parents, who then are happy, and do what they can to support it at home. For me, it's more often the mum who doesn't incorporate things and the dad does, but that's usually because the dad has less time with the kid, whereas the mum has more time, and usually a sibling, too, which makes it harder. But like I said, the parents I work with are usually pretty good. When I worked with a centre that had parents involved in the sessions, the parents thought that one session was a) "easy" because the therapist was there, and so they still felt they couldn't do it at home and b) their work was done once they went to session. (Admittedly, many of my parents also think b) is true - they send their kids to me thinking I'm going to fix the problem/s so they don't have to do anything, but then I started to get serious about dumping parents who don't put in the effort, and I only ask the parents to do their best to implement my strategies 60% - more than half - of the time; after that they put in more effort and get more consistent once they see the progress). Parent support is still not as important to me as having the child be able to show the independence - and usually how well and easily they can do that, because it takes some of the pressure off the parents, who often just feel overwhelmed with the situation, thinking there is so much work involved (and there IS a lot of work involved, it is easy to get overwhelmed). The kid can learn to do the work, ask for help etc.

Like I said, I'm sure distance won't work for all, but I was just curious about why you dismissed it so easily. I'm not sure it will work for this family, but so far no one else has outright said they didn't think it would work, they've either said, "sure, I've seen it work" or "can't hurt to try" and then helped brainstorm ideas or asked me questions. I'll be certain to let you all know how the trials go, but I'm actually looking forward to the experiment!

P.S. LAST DAY OF SCHOOL!!

 

[jlai]

Like I said twice before, Angelskates, I am only speaking on the basis on a limited sample. And since we are not even living in the same continent, I don't know how your experience, or mine, can be generalized globally.
YMMV

 

[Angelskates]

Like I said twice before, Angelskates, I am only speaking on the basis on a limited sample. And since we are not even living in the same continent, I don't know how your experience, or mine, can be generalized globally.
YMMV

But your instinct was no based on a very limited experience. I guess that's what I find hard to understand. You know you have a very limited sample, yet your instinct was not, "try and see", it was no. As a teacher, that actually saddens me, and makes me curious, which is why I asked you about it. I guess I think those who know and have experience with children with special needs should always be as open as possible when it comes to options and "experiments" (even the ones that seem crazy, or seem like there's no way they will work). I guess I don't really see why your instinct said no, instead of "try and see", even with your limited experience, but that's because I'm very much a "try and see" kind of person, especially when it comes to my work. Obviously we have different options and instincts based on our experiences, and that's fine; I don't have to understand, but I was trying to.

 

[jlai]

How do you know I didn't try and see and that didn't work?

If you want to try and see, then try and see, but if you are looking for a specific answer you already have in mind in the thread, then I think i have nothing to contribute. But I don't know why you feel like you need to question me more just because I didn't say what u wanna hear

I wasn't questioning you in particular but the whole premise of how therapy works in general in where I live. To me there is just not enough coordination. Speech therapy in a different clinic than the OT person, the school teacher not knowing what the therapist is doing, the parents not incorporating enough of changes to make the therapy work for hours on end, etc.

 

[Angelskates]

I am not questioning you, I didn't ask any questions in my last post. I didn't (and still don't) understand why your gut instinct was no, so I asked about it - because you just said your gut instinct was no without any information about why, or your experiences. Now that I've asked about it, I still don't understand why your gut instinct was no, but like I said, I don't need to understand. People base opinions on whatever they want - your experience (from what you've written) wouldn't mean I would no consider this an option for me, but your views are different. No problem. I wanted people's experiences, resources, and suggestions for online support - I didn't have any views on what the replies would be. But I didn't expect anyone to say they didn't think it would work without any further information...so I asked. Sorry if you thought I was judging you - I'm not - hug I didn't think you post about gut instinct was useful without any more information, which is why I asked.

 

[jlai]

I don't wanna give out specific experience because I believe that violates the privacy of the people in question. We are in HIPAA world after all.
Gut instinct were probably not the correct words. I was speaking from experience - some Chinese and a lot of American.
Just a lot of uncoordinated care, left side not knowing what the right side is doing. etc etc etc.

As for technology. There are some good uses for it. e.g. I found a very good use for Alexa (the Amazon speaker to whom you can ask questions to). Great in helping with speech therapy. Alexa wouldn't understand you unless you speak clearly.

As I said again, it's silly to even generalize what I said or what you said. So do whatever you feel you should do, and I can always take my complaints about Chinese/American provider care somewhere else.

 

[Angelskates]

Believe me, I can write a book about the lack of coordination with special needs services. Here the private places compete, which is dumb because we all do something different, and mostly our services tend to compliment each other. My centre is tiny, and we are pretty much the only place who works with everyone since we're very specific in what we offer and what we don't, and also I can offer services in both English and Chinese. We also are the only place that turns people away if we can't meet their needs, rather than take them because they're money... I don't use technology very much (we have computers and iPads, but also strict policies about their use) - we're also pretty much full... The biggest issue here is a lack of a governing body, so the foreign places don't have mandated reporting procedures, or working with children checks, or anything. I tried to set one up years ago, but no one else was on board. It bothers me a lot because I know some people are misleading people about their qualifications/experience, but there are no checks and balances. Every so often I offer a talk on "what to ask" to encourage parents to ask questions when choosing someone to work with their children, because here there was even a school (closed down now) that was a special needs school run by a Christian Charity that charged expat prices, and only had one qualified special needs teacher and the rest of the "teachers" had "teaching experience" and a "passion". I'm a big believer that there are some crap qualified teachers out there and some awesome non-certified teachers, but I'm a bigger believer in being honest with parents about what they're paying for. Here "teacher" means everything and anything...

So, that's my rant I do my best, and try and help in as many ways as I can...

 

[Angelskates]

Double post, sorry.