'New Quad Kings' are IceNetwork's People of the Year for 2015-16 (+ the other 7 nominee articles)

jlai

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I know it's crazy, but in that particular photo, Nathan looked a bit like a young Li Changjiang
 

Meoima

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Why would you assume they didn't win because they're Russian? maybe Hanyu didn't win because he's Japanese? :confused:
Hanyu lost WC, so if he didn't win it might be the reason. Liza and Evegnia won everything in one season respectively. And they made records too (Liza with 4 clean triples SP, and Evegnia broke WR).
 

Tavi

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Wow - I really did not like that article.

So the four "youngsters" were dissatisfied with the status quo and they pushed technical limits. What, in the end, did they produce? With the exception of Shoma Uno, a bunch of programs basically consisting of ... jumps. Quite often, very sloppy jumps. And very little else. Rafael A and Nathan Chen wanted to send a message, a shot heard round the world. Too bad their hubris resulted in Nathan's having to forgo his Worlds spot this year, but oh well. And good ole Tom Z - he doesn't like to lose. Does he think his skaters will never be able to do anything except jumps, forget Philip Mills, so he'd better cram in as many jumps into each program as possible? Jin wants to do programs consisting of quads and 3As only. Not much different than he's doing now -,I mean really, why worry about music and footwork and spins and stuff - who needs it? And Samohin is a manly man engaged in a bloody sport. Is that because it's dangerous representing Israel?

It was telling, I thought, that the only two skaters who really gave transcendent multi quad performances - Hanyu & Javi - were not even mentioned in this article.

:blah:
 

Spun Silver

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Yeah, and come to think of it, Javy should have been nominated too. His record was not perfect like Medvedeva's, but he is a more complete skater and his surprise repeat WCship was absolutely stellar.

I like Medvedeva and obviously she is impressive in many ways, but I dont see her as the queen of figure skating yet. Or if she is, that is a problem for me.
 

misskarne

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And good ole Tom Z - he doesn't like to lose. Does he think his skaters will never be able to do anything except jumps, forget Philip Mills, so he'd better cram in as many jumps into each program as possible?

Excuse me?! That is just plain rude, impolite, and disrespectful to the work Max has put in this season.

And Jin has mentioned several times he is still working hard on the other aspects of his skating.
 

Meoima

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With the exception of Shoma Uno, a bunch of programs basically consisting of ... jumps. Quite often, very sloppy jumps. And very little else.
Actually according to this analysis Shoma doesn't have more transitions than Boyang Jin. They both have medium amount of transitions and maybe too many crossovers:
http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/ind...fficult-steps-of-top-men-sp-comparison.98381/

Please notice both SP and LP analysis.
You might argue that Boyang has less quality, but he certainly does have transitions and no less than Shoma at all. Yes Boyang's upper body doesn't move very well but his legs are not less busy than Shoma. So in my opinion if you call Boyang's programs as having nothing but jumps, Shoma is the same. The biggest difference is the quality, but quantity there's not much.
 

Tavi

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Excuse me?! That is just plain rude, impolite, and disrespectful to the work Max has put in this season.

And Jin has mentioned several times he is still working hard on the other aspects of his skating.

Umm. I think you missed the point of my criticism, and you misunderstood me about Tom Z. You really need to stop seeing anti-Max barbs where none are intended. I don't like this article because it's a sloppy, shallow piece of writing. The author frames the debate about quads as the accomplishments of the "quad kings" in a vacuum, without considering anything other than "it's new! It's hard! It's a technical advance!" That kind of thinking has already led to some flawed and ugly programs and overblown PCS this season. I don't want to see it continue and that's why this article bothers me.

As to Tom Z specifically, you go back and show me anywhere in that article where he says, "I'm really proud of all the work Max has done on his components this year. He's already a really strong jumper and with his continued improvement in components and his jumps he'll be unstoppable." No, his answer is apparently: more and harder quads = winning. Is that what he really thinks? I don't know, but that's all the author told me.

As to Jin: the article quotes him as saying his dream program would be all quads and triple axels. That's it. No mention of, I'm really excited we've pushed technical boundaries but now I need to work on my components because my programs really suck. I don't care what he said elsewhere because you know what, the author forgot to mention it.
 

misskarne

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Umm. I think you missed the point of my criticism, and you misunderstood me about Tom Z. You really need to stop seeing anti-Max barbs where none are intended. I don't like this article because it's a sloppy, shallow piece of writing. The author frames the debate about quads as the accomplishments of the "quad kings" in a vacuum, without considering anything other than "it's new! It's hard! It's a technical advance!" That kind of thinking has already led to some flawed and ugly programs and overblown PCS this season. I don't want to see it continue and that's why this article bothers me.

As to Tom Z specifically, you go back and show me anywhere in that article where he says, "I'm really proud of all the work Max has done on his components this year. He's already a really strong jumper and with his continued improvement in components and his jumps he'll be unstoppable." No, his answer is apparently: more and harder quads = winning. Is that what he really thinks? I don't know, but that's all the author told me.

As to Jin: the article quotes him as saying his dream program would be all quads and triple axels. That's it. No mention of, I'm really excited we've pushed technical boundaries but now I need to work on my components because my programs really suck. I don't care what he said elsewhere because you know what, the author forgot to mention it.

The article may be sloppy and poorly written but you are being deliberately obtuse. The article does not exist in a vacuum nor does it exist in an alternate reality. It exists in a reality where Tom Z encourages Max to work with Phillip Mills and supports his efforts in the second mark, it exists in a reality where Boyang Jin has said he is working on his other skating, it exists in a reality where it turned out that Nathan Chen doing four quads in the FS at Nationals was, in hindsight, a really, really bad idea.

If every author had to mention every tiny detail in every article we'd never get any articles written.

And yes, I see the shade, because it is there, in the blatant double-standard the US fans apply. When one skater has consistently done multiple-quad free skates for three years and more, but spent that whole time being constantly lambasted for that, he's terrible and dreadful and it's not all about the jumps so he should lose every time...why is it that when a young kid shows up with a multiple quad free skate, that is suddenly great and wonderful and it's all about the jumps and put him on all the teams?
 

Tavi

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The article may be sloppy and poorly written but you are being deliberately obtuse. The article does not exist in a vacuum nor does it exist in an alternate reality. It exists in a reality where Tom Z encourages Max to work with Phillip Mills and supports his efforts in the second mark, it exists in a reality where Boyang Jin has said he is working on his other skating, it exists in a reality where it turned out that Nathan Chen doing four quads in the FS at Nationals was, in hindsight, a really, really bad idea.

If every author had to mention every tiny detail in every article we'd never get any articles written.

And yes, I see the shade, because it is there, in the blatant double-standard the US fans apply. When one skater has consistently done multiple-quad free skates for three years and more, but spent that whole time being constantly lambasted for that, he's terrible and dreadful and it's not all about the jumps so he should lose every time...why is it that when a young kid shows up with a multiple quad free skate, that is suddenly great and wonderful and it's all about the jumps and put him on all the teams?

No, Karne, I am not being deliberately obtuse by ignoring outside facts, any more than I was being rude, impolite, and disrespectful to Max in my first post. I don't think it's my job as a reader to "interpret" this article more favorably than the author wrote it. That's especially true in view of the fact that she chose not even to mention the great performances by Hanyu and Javi this season that presumably resulted - at least in part - from the boundary-pushing and increased competition.

As to Max, as I've stated quite a few times here and on GS, I like and admire many things about him and really enjoyed his performances at SA. But I disagree with your perspective that USFS has continually mistreated him over a period of years.
 

kwanfan1818

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Or as the Vancouver bus driver said to the man who ranted at her for being racist because she rolled her eyes at him when she missed two lights while he drunkenly tried to mount his bicycle on the bike rack said,

"That's what's in your head, sir. "
 

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