Meddling: New Documentary On Peacock about the 2002 Salt Lake Pairs Scandal

[MacMadame]

I've been here 15 years. I started on rssif, moved to SkateFans mailing list, and then took a break, before coming here.

 

[soogar]

Not just that it’s worse they now control ladies eat that nbc

They never complained how under 6.0, a triple flutz-double toe was worth more than a 3t-3t in the short or a 3f-2t. They would bury European ladies who did the 3t-3t at the expense of American ladies. Then all of a sudden, COP made it hard for Americans to be held up.

 

[VGThuy]

They never complained how under 6.0, a triple flutz-double toe was worth more than a 3t-3t in the short or a 3f-2t. They would bury European ladies who did the 3t-3t at the expense of American ladies. Then all of a sudden, COP made it hard for Americans to be held up.

Well, under COP, not much has changed there outside of Russians and Carolina Kostner. We did have Lepisto in 2010 Olympics.

 

[soogar]

Well, under COP, not much has changed there outside of Russians and Carolina Kostner. We did have Lepisto in 2010 Olympics.

A lot changed, I think there has been more movement from smaller federations.

 

[VGThuy]

A lot changed, I think there has been more movement from smaller federations.

But for the most part, Americans still do better than every Euro country with the exception of Russians and one or two Euros that become stand outs. This year, we have Leona and Olga Mikutina being the stand outs (love both!).

 

[MacMadame]

We also have Japan emerging as a powerhouse among the Women. That's new.

 

[soogar]

But for the most part, Americans still do better than every Euro country with the exception of Russians and one or two Euros that become stand outs. This year, we have Leona and Olga Mikutina being the stand outs (love both!).

American skaters aren't crappy. The US still has a good team. Bigger Federations with more skaters will do well since there are more participants, training and rinks. Just look at the movement in ice dance. Conversely Americans were always shut out of the medals and teams had to wait their turn. Now there is more movement in the standings and US teams are very strong. It's not a perfect system, but 6.0 was easily manipulated. I think after SLC, the Canadians really thought they were going to benefit from the new scoring system, but it really hasn't panned out that way in the long term.

 

[VGThuy]

American skaters aren't crappy. The US still has a good team. Bigger Federations with more skaters will do well since there are more participants, training and rinks. Just look at the movement in ice dance. Conversely Americans were always shut out of the medals and teams had to wait their turn. Now there is more movement in the standings and US teams are very strong. It's not a perfect system, but 6.0 was easily manipulated. I think after SLC, the Canadians really thought they were going to benefit from the new scoring system, but it really hasn't panned out that way in the long term.

If only they kept producing more Osmonds and Daleman (when she was at her height). Sigh. I love the way both skated. Those huge jumps and that speed and ice coverage! Though Osmond flutzed, right?

 

[Judy]

American skaters aren't crappy. The US still has a good team. Bigger Federations with more skaters will do well since there are more participants, training and rinks. Just look at the movement in ice dance. Conversely Americans were always shut out of the medals and teams had to wait their turn. Now there is more movement in the standings and US teams are very strong. It's not a perfect system, but 6.0 was easily manipulated. I think after SLC, the Canadians really thought they were going to benefit from the new scoring system, but it really hasn't panned out that way in the long term.

Not sure about that actually. We had the first Olympic gold in ice dance (youngest too). Then a second. The a women’s world champ. Amongst other medalists and top finishes. Canada has usually been a factor in placement and medals though.

i don’t think we’re really strong right now though but I’m not that surprised either.

 

[Andora]

Not sure about that actually. We had the first Olympic gold in ice dance (youngest too). Then a second. The a women’s world champ. Amongst other medalists and top finishes. Canada has usually been a factor in placement and medals though.

i don’t think we’re really strong right now though but I’m not that surprised either.

Yeah, Canada did pretty well in 2018 alone, but I knew we'd have to pay for it with a "rebuild" after Pyeongchang.

I just didn't think it would be this bleak.

 

[Judy]

Yeah, Canada did pretty well in 2018 alone, but I knew we'd have to pay for it with a "rebuild" after Pyeongchang.

I just didn't think it would be this bleak.

I wasn’t too surprised.

 

[kwanfan1818]

When Skate Canada put together an insular "Dream Team" for the TE and allowed it to formally be the in crowd and call the shots, what did they expect to happen? I remember after one pre-Olympic competition I was at, David Pelletier called together all of the Olympians to one end of the rink, and he gave them a huge pep talk about being the team that would represent Canada. Not a team, and everyone else.

 

[skatingguy]

Though Osmond flutzed, right?

Yes Osmond had a flutz.

 

[Yuri]

Episode #3 (40 minutes, approximately) recently dropped and I just finished watching it. including watching the opening segment twice, which dealt with the judging at the ice dancing event at the 1998 Winter Olympics in Nagano. The "star" interviewee is the infamous Canadian ice dancing judge, Ms. Jean Senft, who admitted to taping multiple conversations using a "pen" in her purse that she bought in a spy shop. The big drama was the playing of her recording of a conversation with the infamous Ukrainian judge, Yuri Balkov (and no, I am not him even though I once sat across the table from him at a group Russian/Ukrainian figure team dinner in Paris at the 1997 European Championships).

Where Meddling is very disappointing is how it distorts what Balkov said versus what happened in the free dance. This isn't new news for those who have followed what happened in Nagano, but essentially this is what Balkov said on tape:

Yuri Balkov: Jean. My opinion. Three France. Four Canada. Five Averbukh. Do you understand?

Of course, this is how the three couples finished overall and that's all that Meddling shows to prove judging corruption. But as we all should remember, that is NOT how the free dance went down. Bourne & Kraatz with Riverdance defeated Anissina & Peizerat with Romeo & Juliet when both teams skated amazing free dances. I recall it was a narrow 5-4 split but don't recall with certainty. And neither couple was competitive at all with the top two Russian couples in the marks and ordinals. But Meddling tells us NOTHING about that, such as how Bourne & Kraatz made a mistake in one compulsory dance to finish 5th behind Lobacheva & Averbukh (the team CBS should have shown in its side-by-side comparison, NOT Grishuk & Platov). If anything, Meddling ends up tarring the gold and silver medals of Grishuk & Platov and Krylova & Ovsyannikov, neither of whom were ever truly part of the "bloc judging" allegations. And Meddling goes further by insinuating that perhaps every Russian pair or dance couple from Irina Rodnina and partners through Artur Dmitriev and partners had their Olympic Golds tarnished by unfair judging.

I'll let others discuss that aftermath of the Salt Lake City pairs discussion, which dominated the rest of Episode #3, which had lengthy interviews with the likes of Marie-Reine Le Gougne and Tamara Moskvina to go along with the usual Canadians and Scott Hamilton. But the final three minutes teased the 2002 SLC ice dancing controversy with Anissina & Peizerat, which I assume will be a major focus of Episode #4.

 

[Judy]

Episode #3 (40 minutes, approximately) recently dropped and I just finished watching it. including watching the opening segment twice, which dealt with the judging at the ice dancing event at the 1998 Winter Olympics in Nagano. The "star" interviewee is the infamous Canadian ice dancing judge, Ms. Jean Senft, who admitted to taping multiple conversations using a "pen" in her purse that she bought in a spy shop. The big drama was the playing of her recording of a conversation with the infamous Ukrainian judge, Yuri Balkov (and no, I am not him even though I once sat across the table from him at a group Russian/Ukrainian figure team dinner in Paris at the 1997 European Championships).

Where Meddling is very disappointing is how it distorts what Balkov said versus what happened in the free dance. This isn't new news for those who have followed what happened in Nagano, but essentially this is what Balkov said on tape:


Of course, this is how the three couples finished overall and that's all that Meddling shows to prove judging corruption. But as we all should remember, that is NOT how the free dance went down. Bourne & Kraatz with Riverdance defeated Anissina & Peizerat with Romeo & Juliet when both teams skated amazing free dances. I recall it was a narrow 5-4 split but don't recall with certainty. And neither couple was competitive at all with the top two Russian couples in the marks and ordinals. But Meddling tells us NOTHING about that, such as how Bourne & Kraatz made a mistake in one compulsory dance to finish 5th behind Lobacheva & Averbukh (the team CBS should have shown in its side-by-side comparison, NOT Grishuk & Platov). If anything, Meddling ends up tarring the gold and silver medals of Grishuk & Platov and Krylova & Ovsyannikov, neither of whom were ever truly part of the "bloc judging" allegations. And Meddling goes further by insinuating that perhaps every Russian pair or dance couple from Irina Rodnina and partners through Artur Dmitriev and partners had their Olympic Golds tarnished by unfair judging.

I'll let others discuss that aftermath of the Salt Lake City pairs discussion, which dominated the rest of Episode #3, which had lengthy interviews with the likes of Marie-Reine Le Gougne and Tamara Moskvina to go along with the usual Canadians and Scott Hamilton. But the final three minutes teased the 2002 SLC ice dancing controversy with Anissina & Peizerat, which I assume will be a major focus of Episode #4.

The problem in SLC city was simple. A French judge admitted to cheating. In front of many witnesses. Legally that was an explosive mess. Along with a certain French ice dancer. It doesn’t matter what our personal opinions are.

 

[MAXSwagg]

The problem in SLC city was simple. A French judge admitted to cheating. In front of many witnesses. Legally that was an explosive mess. Along with a certain French ice dancer. It doesn’t matter what our personal opinions are.

LeGougne said a lot of whacky and contradictory things. Maybe she was telling the truth (although which time?). Or maybe she was mentally/emotionally unstable, for whatever reason.

 

[Judy]

LeGougne said a lot of whacky and contradictory things. Maybe she was telling the truth (although which time?). Or maybe she was mentally/emotionally unstable, for whatever reason.

That wouldn’t have changed anything.

 

[Fadeevfanboy]

Not sure why anyone is surprised Canada is not that strong now. People forget most of the 2018 team top skaters were holdovers from the 2011-2014 quad. Duhamel & Radford staying in, Chan coming back from retirement, Virtue & Moir coming back from retirement, Weaver & Poje staying in, Osmond staying in when she first emerged as a top skater in fall 2012. Really there was almost no way there wasn't going to be a big drop off.

 

[MarieM]

The problem in SLC city was simple. A French judge admitted to cheating. In front of many witnesses. Legally that was an explosive mess. Along with a certain French ice dancer. It doesn’t matter what our personal opinions are.

A certain ice dancer being? I can't believe you are rehashing horseshit like that again.

 

[Judy]

A certain ice dancer being? I can't believe you are rehashing horseshit like that again.

Isn’t everyone who is commenting on the thread?

 

[Andrea82]

Episode #3 (40 minutes, approximately) recently dropped and I just finished watching it. including watching the opening segment twice, which dealt with the judging at the ice dancing event at the 1998 Winter Olympics in Nagano. The "star" interviewee is the infamous Canadian ice dancing judge, Ms. Jean Senft, who admitted to taping multiple conversations using a "pen" in her purse that she bought in a spy shop. The big drama was the playing of her recording of a conversation with the infamous Ukrainian judge, Yuri Balkov (and no, I am not him even though I once sat across the table from him at a group Russian/Ukrainian figure team dinner in Paris at the 1997 European Championships).

Where Meddling is very disappointing is how it distorts what Balkov said versus what happened in the free dance. This isn't new news for those who have followed what happened in Nagano, but essentially this is what Balkov said on tape:


Of course, this is how the three couples finished overall and that's all that Meddling shows to prove judging corruption. But as we all should remember, that is NOT how the free dance went down. Bourne & Kraatz with Riverdance defeated Anissina & Peizerat with Romeo & Juliet when both teams skated amazing free dances. I recall it was a narrow 5-4 split but don't recall with certainty. And neither couple was competitive at all with the top two Russian couples in the marks and ordinals.

Yes, FD had a 5-4 split

Jean Senft: B/K
Halina Gordon Poltorak: B/K
Eugenia Gasiorowska: B/K
Yuri Balkov: B/K
Ulf Denzer: B/K
Jarmila Portova: A/P
Alla Shekhovstova: A/P
Walter Zuccaro: A/P
Jean Bernard Hamel: A/P

 

[Fadeevfanboy]

I think the reason Jean Senft got a ban was in the phone conversation with Balkov she agreed to "Canada 3, Russia 4, France 5". And she was the only judge to place the Russians over A&P in the FD (ridiculous). Which is exactly what Balkov told her to do and which she agreed to. It didn't seem like a coincidence. She also was the only judge to place the Canadians 2nd in the FD. All this knowing B&K had to beat A&P by 2 places in the FD to pass them she placed them 3 places apart while no other judge had B&K more than 1 place over A&P, including an agreed upon placement over the phone, which she was the only one to finally go along with, including Balkov himself.

 

[museksk8r]

I was never the biggest fan of Sale/Pelletier and never understood why their silver medal was considered a travesty. When it came to North American teams, I preferred Ina/Zimmerman over them. There was no love in Jamie and David’s “Love Story” and it was a simply constructed program that they repeated from the 2000 season. Elena and Anton were in a class by themselves in 2002 and their programs were more elevated than the Canadians. Shen/ Zhao did not come into their own as the complete package until the 2003 season. Totmiana and Marinin were too boring to be medalists. This scandal and outcry in the North American media was blown so out of proportion as it was not like Jamie and David were far and away the best pair in the world at that time.

 

[coppertop1]

If only they kept producing more Osmonds and Daleman (when she was at her height). Sigh. I love the way both skated. Those huge jumps and that speed and ice coverage! Though Osmond flutzed, right?

I see potential in Schizas.

Yes, Osmond flutzed and often got a ! On her Lutz

 

[dawnie]

Did anyone notice during the montage of past female US champions they showed the back of Kwan's head for like a nano-second?
And then in the credits I see who's an executive producer...

 

[tony]

Did anyone notice during the montage of past female US champions they showed the back of Kwan's head for like a nano-second?
And then in the credits I see who's an executive producer...

Tara and Michelle are often liking posts on each others' Instagrams, sometimes even leaving comments. The fans, however, don't seem to want to move on.

 

[tony]

Watching episode 3 finally.. I think this series is really interesting and I'm seeing some clips that I never saw before. It's also nice to hear from Elena and Anton, even if it's really limited in scope. I mean, this episode we get an entire explanation of the steps Senft took buying that stupid pen, only to go exactly along with whatever 'bloc' she to this day claims she was against, and then cried about it after the fact when she didn't get her result. I still can't wrap my head around how anyone can consider she was doing anything good for the sport rather than being a poor sport because B/K didn't medal. Her not understanding why she was suspended for 6 months for 'exposing' it is

I also have a real issue with the way this 2002 LP has been presented by North American media just about every time this comes up. They are angling it to sound like this is the first time a one (relatively minor) mistake skate had beaten a clean skate. No one has ever brought up the 2001 Worlds LP, and North America constantly conveniently forgets that. Yes, there's a judging issue with the Olympics that came out after the event concluded. But to make it sound like the results didn't make sense the second the scores came up- nope. Hamilton, idiot Hammond, Bezic-- all of them on the air exclaiming OMG how did that happen? after Bezic very clearly explained (prior to ordinals) how B/S have the more complex program, the higher difficulty, etc. Imagine if at 2001 Worlds, Underhill and Martini would be beyond themselves after B/S lose to S/P. Oh wait. Not a word.

 

[Frau Muller]

I’ve caught up to the 3rd episode. What a fabulous series! All of the important characters in the story are interviewed, except for Didier who, we’re told, declined.

We’re going to delve more into the 2002 ice-dancing event in episode 4…Anissina’s mom, Russian mafia and all of that. Can’t wait!

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

I was hoping there was a thread for this. Oh my gosh ….child ….I just had to stop in the middle of the second episode to come here and vent


First of all I think this was done really really good. I like the production. And Tara is a producer?


The first episode I mean we all know the basics of Elena story and Jaime and David but wow you really learn all of the details of their lives. So shocking and sad

CHILDDDDDDDD Now I just had to pause the episode two where Elaina b whom I don’t even recognize anymore says that she did not like Jaime and David free program at all and then they cut to Tamara and says Jaime and David skated to much simpler program flawlessly…. Ohhhhhh


And then Tamara goes in one further and says for skating to love story I don’t see much love.

OHHHHHHHH MYYYY

Who needs housewives these days when meddling is on!!!!

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

I finally put my finger finger on it, Jaime Sale looks like the Hollywood actress Jamie Gertz