Meddling: New Documentary On Peacock about the 2002 Salt Lake Pairs Scandal

Kimkeb

Member
Messages
23
I watched the first two episodes of Meddling and thought it was well done so far. I had also read the book The Second Mark, which is really the gold standard in detailing the SLC controversy. I know everyone in skating says what matters the most is which pair performs better that night. I will admit Sale and Pelletier skated a little bit better that night, but I still think the better skaters is B&S. I really do think it was close. I was sort of bothered that Sale and Pelletier skated to Love Story which is a great program, but also seemed like a one hit wonder for them. It was refreshing to see B&S skate new programs. I don’t know to me it could have gone either way, but I am an American with a soft for the Russians. I blame Gordeeva And Grinkov for that they made me fall in love with pair skating.
 

MarieM

Grumpy Cynical Ice Dance Lover
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9,967
Will Sale look as a poor loser like she did in the netflix thing?
 

Coco

Rotating while Russian!
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18,538
I would love to see someone challenge Scott about his comments regarding this 2002 FS and his comments/reaction to 1994 pairs FS. Polar opposite reactions by him.

Also, if it was egregious to put B/S first for the little turnout on a jump, how egregious was putting S/P first in the SP when they fell on their ass? Smh ...

Loved the first episode, the second was rather enraging and openly biased.

And what's with using Bev Smith's quote about how she was never sure she could trust Tamara Moskvina?
 

bcash

Well-Known Member
Messages
493
The "new program" argument was among the reasons cited (in an interview to a Chinese media outlet) by the Chinese judge on that panel that night for placing B/S first, if my memory isn't messing with me.
 

skatingguy

decently
Messages
18,397
The "new program" argument was among the reasons cited (in an interview to a Chinese media outlet) by the Chinese judge on that panel that night for placing B/S first, if my memory isn't messing with me.
Repeating programs used to be a bigger deal, or at least was a bigger deal at that time. Now it's so common in an Olympic season it's surprising when someone does have a new program.
 

tony

Throwing the (rule)book at them
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17,679
Repeating programs used to be a bigger deal, or at least was a bigger deal at that time. Now it's so common in an Olympic season it's surprising when someone does have a new program.
Yeah, but it's not as if it really hurt most skaters. Baiul's LP was a repeat, Petrenko had skated his Olympic LP for 3 seasons, Mishkutenok/Dmitriev won in 1992 with a program that was two years old, Kazakova/Dmitriev won with a repeat LP, Kwan likely would've won in 2002 had she not fallen and she had a repeat SP (that was flawed and still won the segment), etc. [ETA- all the medal-winning pairs in Nagano had at least one repeat program. W/S went the 'best of' route with both being repeats].

And then Shen/Zhao would go on to keep Turandot, even if it wasn't an Olympic season in 2003.

I thought Meditation was superior to Love Story, but I thought it was inferior to Chaplin and I really did not like the abrupt ending. Chaplin is one program I wouldn't have minded to see again.

Anyways, the show started playing automatically after Nationals finished the other day and I thought it was well-done so far. Nothing we didn't know (and not surprising that it's more North American-slanted), but I'm interested to see which story LeGougne tells this time. And of course they went to Jean Senft :rolleyes:
 

Frau Muller

From Puerto Rico…With Love! Not LatinX!
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22,098
I liked watching both episodes, because it's nice to see how everyone is feeling after 20 years.

Will the documentary focus on just the Double Gold Medal Issue, or will it focus on other types of meddling such as skating parents who basically ruined their kids' lives (i.e. Mrs. Chin)?

This could be a great "behind-the-scenes" look. Margaret Cho could play Mrs. Chin, and Maya Erskine could play Tiffany. Or maybe they can act out SafeSport issues like Peter Oppegard biting people.
Sorry bu…What does the Chin family have to do with this?
 

Andora

Skating season ends as baseball season begins
Messages
12,018
I remember being OUTRAGED over the entire situation

On the night, I was outraged for S&P. I was a big fan, I wanted them to win, they skated well, etc. Years later, I can understand it being closer, but in the end we don't change results based on hindsight. (I mean, we debate, yes, but...)

That being said, the one thing I firmly believe, even then, is that S&P going back to Love Story was a boneheaded move, and I blame stupid Lori Nichol for suggesting it after the GPF. Orchid was a MUCH better program, and I wish they'd won or lost the gold based on how they skated it. Going back to something comfortable instead of working out the kinks that kept them from skating Orchid well just felt... uncompetitive.

If they had to go back, Tristan & Isolde would have been a much better choice, and I know enough fans said the same in 2002. But alas...
 

VGThuy

Well-Known Member
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41,020
Yeah, but it's not as if it really hurt most skaters. Baiul's LP was a repeat, Petrenko had skated his Olympic LP for 3 seasons, Mishkutenok/Dmitriev won in 1992 with a program that was two years old, Kazakova/Dmitriev won with a repeat LP, Kwan likely would've won in 2002 had she not fallen and she had a repeat SP (that was flawed and still won the segment), etc. [ETA- all the medal-winning pairs in Nagano had at least one repeat program. W/S went the 'best of' route with both being repeats].

And then Shen/Zhao would go on to keep Turandot, even if it wasn't an Olympic season in 2003.

I thought Meditation was superior to Love Story, but I thought it was inferior to Chaplin and I really did not like the abrupt ending. Chaplin is one program I wouldn't have minded to see again.

Anyways, the show started playing automatically after Nationals finished the other day and I thought it was well-done so far. Nothing we didn't know (and not surprising that it's more North American-slanted), but I'm interested to see which story LeGougne tells this time. And of course they went to Jean Senft :rolleyes:
Agree with this as well. Actually, repeat programs or programs that were slightly re-edited were kind of normal for the most part, until like the 1990s-2000s. Then IJS made repeat programs come back. It was only in ice dance where it was normal to see new programs every year, although those late 1970s-early 1980s rules that had FDs be a hodgepodge of different styles/genres/rhythms made programs incoherent and forgettable anyway.

Regarding Meditation, I'm glad you said it because I agree. Meditation may have been choreographically complex, but you can tell they were not inspired by that program at all and the weird cymbals edited into the music were kind of strange. Some of the lifts had to have added effects like a drumroll because the lift up didn't go with the lyricism of the music. Anton also had that weird moment during the combo pairs spin where he did some slinky dance before changing his foot. They seemed to be just going through the motions with it where I felt like Meditation was just Moskvina being strong-armed to create a "classical" Russian-style pairs program and forced B/S into it. Of course, it did work in their favor because she gave the judges what they wanted. Well five of them anyway. Still, the program was wonderfully complex and it did show them off well. I just don't think they felt it as much as their other programs, especially compared to The Lady Caliph from that same season.
 

tony

Throwing the (rule)book at them
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17,679
Tony,…the Chins? You quoted someone else on the Chin thing.
Frau, please read. You asked why the Chins would be brought up and there was a question about whether this series would just focus on SLC or other skating issues of the past. The same information was there for both you and I to read.
 

Frau Muller

From Puerto Rico…With Love! Not LatinX!
Messages
22,098
Frau, please read. You asked why the Chins would be brought up and there was a question about whether this series would just focus on SLC or other skating issues of the past. The same information was there for both you and I to read.
Oh, ok. Didn’t know why whoever brought up the Chins in the first place….2002 was far removed from the mid-80s. Didn’t expect you to know..just the person who brought it up “tylersf” (post #27 on page one).
 

VGThuy

Well-Known Member
Messages
41,020
The real scandal is that this was 20 years ago. :eek: Where the heck is time going. It still feels like the new judging system.
I remember back in 2002, when Sandra Bezic referenced Midori Ito being the first woman to land a 3/3 in 1982 or 1983. At first she said "ten years ago" and that sounded super normal to me because I was used to the 80s being "ten years ago" for so long, and then Bezic corrected herself on the air with a shocked tone, she said "twenty years ago!" That's when I realized the 1980s really were twenty years ago by then. That was my first big shock with my age.
 

Judy

Well-Known Member
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5,527
Sorry bu…What does the Chin family have to do with this?
Not much of course.

I can’t watch it living in Canada. But at least it resulted in huge changes in judging.

Who ever thought that ice dance could be exciting? Or that movement could actually happen?
 

escaflowne9282

Reformed Manspreader
Messages
3,584
Oh wow, this message board has been in existent for that long?
Yep. If you are a supporter, you can actually go into the Archives and see the pbp from the Pairs LP. Of course, back then this was just a quaint little board and the great migration from F$World didn't happen until later on in the spring/ summer. It was Paul Martini's loss and SHARPIE's gain.

(It's nearly 20 years later and I still can't believe the utter nerve of Mr.Martini in demanding that people pay money to read threads entitled "Jenny Kirk is gay likes tacos for sure" )
 

tony

Throwing the (rule)book at them
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17,679
Scarier still. It has been nearly 20 years since I first registered on FSU :yikes:
It's been just about 21 years for me and I'm 35 :lol:

Pretty sure the Paul Martini venture happened in 2000, though, because it was all over the boards at that Skate Canada and later at Worlds (in Canada) they were doing one screen shot every 5 seconds as part of their 'coverage' IIRC.
 

Rafter

Well-Known Member
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11,696
Out of curiosity I went on Jamie Sale’s Instagram and Twitter pages. Yikes. Besides the apparent plastic surgery (big fake looking boobs and also looks like she’s had cheek implants), her liking and retweeting of so many COVID and anti-vax conspiracy theories is really troubling. She and Theo Fleury need to give their heads a shake!
 

kwanfan1818

RIP D-10
Messages
37,647
Meditation was a rehash of a lot of Moskvina's choreography for B/S: it even included the "circus lift" from City Lights that was out-of-place in Meditation. That doesn't mean it wasn't superior to Love Story, but it wasn't an original masterwork.

As far as The Second Mark being the last word, PJ Kwong published a book called "Taking the Ice," with interviews and essays with/by a number of people about SLC, and it has both new information and contradictory information, such as that Lavoie didn't volunteer to "do the right thing" and wrote his letter to the IOC on his own, but, instead was forced into it because the Swiss judge or official, who witnessed the Fall 2001 conversation in which LeGougne said she'd already promised her vote to her friend (Sanaia), said she was coming forward and backed him into a corner, and that Skate Canada's lawyers vetted Lavoie's letter before it was ever sent.
 

AYS

🌻
Messages
24,660
It's been just about 21 years for me and I'm 35 :lol:

Pretty sure the Paul Martini venture happened in 2000, though, because it was all over the boards at that Skate Canada and later at Worlds (in Canada) they were doing one screen shot every 5 seconds as part of their 'coverage' IIRC.
Screen caps every few seconds is how we "watched" Michelle Kwan win her world title with Red Violin. We all knew she'd landed her 3toe/3toe because there was shot of her doing the Charlotte at the end. :D

Gad, Martini made a mess of that venture. All's well that ends well!
 

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