ISU Statement on Russia's war against Ukraine - Participation in international competitions of Skaters and Officials from Russia and Belarus

[kwanfan1818]

They seem like a team that is made for IAM, but I don't know that they'd ever make that move.

Since she'd be a French citizen through her mother, she'd likely be eligible to move to Canada under the program that allows reciprical privileges for people between 18-35. I'm guessing attending IAM could be considered under the educational or internship (maybe a stretch) visas.

 

[aka_gerbil]

I hope they move away from Shpilband - Shpilband has never been good at packaging, or really improving the skating quality of female skaters. They seem like a team that is made for IAM, but I don't know that they'd ever make that move.

Not everyone has to go to I.AM. I don’t think it’s been good for ice dance on the whole for them to coach as many teams as they do.

Am I the only one that is against the idea of Russian skaters, whether they support the war or not, switching countries in order to compete in ISU and IOC events? How is it fair to the skaters, who may or may not be as skilled as the Russians, whose careers will suffer if this were allowed to happen. And, for argument sake, let say the Russians did compete for a other country. Are they going to go back to competing for Russia once the country is allowed to participate in ISUnand IOC competitions again?

Not really since it’s not anything new. How many Russian girls skate for other countries already? How many US girls skate for random 4CC countries (and Paganini for Switzerland).

 

[Miezekatze]

I'm totally fine with skaters switching countries, I don't see what's unfair about it, as long as everybody has the same chance to switch.

I think German or Swiss or Austrian figure skating might just die off completely without people willing to switch countries to it.

Someone choosing to represent such a country and having success can on the other hand inspire the local skating enough again that locals might take up the sport again or that some funding reappears.

But I certainly think that many Russian girls switched countries because of Eteri, here another example (she might be the last one who managed).: https://fs-gossips.com/it-was-impos...e-maria-talalaikina-about-change-of-sports-c/

I think before that US skaters switching was a lot more common than Russians switching IMO.

 

[MacMadame]

Am I the only one that is against the idea of Russian skaters, whether they support the war or not, switching countries in order to compete in ISU and IOC events? How is it fair to the skaters, who may or may not be as skilled as the Russians, whose careers will suffer if this were allowed to happen. And, for argument sake, let say the Russians did compete for a other country. Are they going to go back to competing for Russia once the country is allowed to participate in ISUnand IOC competitions again?

I am neither for it nor against it. It will depend on the skater(s) involved, the countries they want to switch to, and their stated reasons for switching.

 

[marbri]

Am I the only one that is against the idea of Russian skaters, whether they support the war or not, switching countries in order to compete in ISU and IOC events? How is it fair to the skaters, who may or may not be as skilled as the Russians, whose careers will suffer if this were allowed to happen. And, for argument sake, let say the Russians did compete for a other country. Are they going to go back to competing for Russia once the country is allowed to participate in ISUnand IOC competitions again?

I agree with this in the context of some posts I have read around the board suggesting/hoping the ISU could override the Russian Fed and fast track country switches. At the very least they should have to sit out a full year of competition as any other skater would be required to so I find this whole switch country conversation very premature. Realistically none of this could even happen before Worlds 2023. I know we talk things to death around here but I think people need to slow their roll on this one and revisit it next year.

 

[Andrey aka Pushkin]

I'm wondering how Russian immigrants are being treated in Israel @TAHbKA and @Andrey aka Pushkin and @MsZem ..... They are a huge and visible segment of the population there, unlike in the U.S. Actually, they are FSU -- some Russian, some Ukrainian, some from Caucasus, etc.

The answer would depend on each specific person. In generally, the Russian community in Israel doesn't exist, as there's no real sense of common ground.

But personally, and I'm sure TAHbKA will disagree as she always does, I'm kind of becoming increasingly annoyed of disproportionate lack of Russian speakers in any kind of "elite", despite statistically being the most educated and integrated group, and some 15% of the population. There are no Russian high ranked officers in the army; very few politicians, most of whom are from Lieberman's party; no high ranked bureaucrats, heads of governmental organisations or companies, deans in academy, etc., not even in the fields where the Russian immigrants are disproportionally represented. I believe papa-Borya is the only head of sport federation (but not gymnastics that consists 99% of Russian speakers), and there's the head of doctors' union. Heck they even sent a non-Russian speaker to report from this specific war between two Russian speaking countries.

I'm not typically someone who is looking to cry victim, but I find all that at the very least weird. And it's not like I have every been personally discriminated, but I also never had any ambitions

On the other hand, I don't feel there's any difference based on the exact country of origin, and I don't feel any difference myself either. Most of the Hebrew speakers are now shocked that apparently Russia and Ukraine is not the same country.

 

[Deleted member 221]

Agree with others that sanctions will last a long time, but I think international sport will be permitted even without a regime change as long as the active combat ends. The business sanctions will last longer than the sport sanctions. 10 years may be realistic for the former, but I'd think 1-2 years max for the latter? Maybe that's wishful thinking.

The Russian Embassy in London (not far from me) has been vandalized, covered in graffiti (including a large Ukrainian flag), and is now cordoned off with barriers guarded 24/7 by police. I've seen several reports, a few firsthand, about Russians having their cars vandalized.

I think before that US skaters switching was a lot more common than Russians switching IMO.

I haven't counted, but I suspect it's still more common. I feel like 4CC is mostly US women skating for other countries.

 

[Miezekatze]

I haven't counted, but I suspect it's still more common. I feel like 4CC is mostly US women skating for other countries.

Yeah also whenever I'm at Nebelhorn Trophy and click at the ISU biography of someone skating for a really obscure non typical skating country, the skater is usually born in the US.

Of course this is not ideal if you consider the sport a "competition of nations", but I think the fact just is that skating is hard to build up locally as a sport from scratch, especially cause maintaining ice rinks is expensive already.

Germany is a rich country, but even here rinks are often closing down, because most of them are old and would have to be renovated and then there's not enough money for that, so old ones get closed down.

So it's not surprising that countries like for example Georgia barely have a skating program/rink.

 

[Trillian]

I think before that US skaters switching was a lot more common than Russians switching IMO.

With US skaters, it’s tended to be less “switching” and more about skaters deciding to represent another country because they probably won’t have much of an international career at all if they stick with USFS. This happens frequently, but many of these skaters never represented the US internationally at all. From what I’ve seen, of them (in singles, at least) have dual citizenship or a reasonable path to citizenship in the other countries. In many cases there doesn’t seem to be much funding involved, so it can also be a limited pool of skaters who have the financial means.

My impression is that Russian skaters have been more likely to end up skating for countries where they don’t have significant family/heritage ties and are more likely to be basically recruited by the other federation. That’s how Kurakova has described her move to Poland, for instance. Otoh, in terms of sheer volume, there still might be more American girls skating for smaller feds.

In general, I think it is what it is - it’s been happening for a long time. I don’t think a lot of Russians will want to immediately switch just because of the current situation, and it’s not that quick and easy anyway.

 

[starrynight]

Am I the only one that is against the idea of Russian skaters, whether they support the war or not, switching countries in order to compete in ISU and IOC events? How is it fair to the skaters, who may or may not be as skilled as the Russians, whose careers will suffer if this were allowed to happen. And, for argument sake, let say the Russians did compete for a other country. Are they going to go back to competing for Russia once the country is allowed to participate in ISUnand IOC competitions again?

I don’t mind country switching provided the skaters actually participate in their new federations activities and sporting and cultural environments.

Just pencilling in a new country on the entrance sheet is what I don’t like.

 

[aka_gerbil]

I don’t mind country switching provided the skaters actually participate in their new federations activities and sporting and cultural environments.

Just pencilling in a new country on the entrance sheet is what I don’t like.

I’m guessing that any Russians who do switch will also be doing it to be able to move and build a better life elsewhere.

The other factor in country switching in this situation is if they’ll even be allowed to leave Russia. The group thar most needs getting out, males of conscription age, are probably the least likely to be allowed to go.

 

[skatingguy]

Since she'd be a French citizen through her mother, she'd likely be eligible to move to Canada under the program that allows reciprical privileges for people between 18-35. I'm guessing attending IAM could be considered under the educational or internship (maybe a stretch) visas.

That comment was about Diana Davis, not Anabelle Morozov.

Not everyone has to go to I.AM. I don’t think it’s been good for ice dance on the whole for them to coach as many teams as they do.

I don't think everyone should go there, but Davis/Smolkin seem like the kind of team that they do well with - they seem similar to Dubreuil/Lauzon, and Chock/Bates - I think they could create programs that really work with their strengths.

 

[Deleted member 221]

I know people thought the ISU statement was weak or slow, but I've seen it included in several mainstream news articles this week as an example of the far-reaching sanctions against Russia. (Apologies for not having links - a bit of a crazy week and I've read so many articles on Russia and Ukraine that I can't even begin to find it. But I'm sure one article was from BBC). The sanctions were noteworthy and fast enough to be included in a list of four or five bulleted examples in general news articles that had nothing to do with skating or even sports otherwise. It's important to give credit where credit is due, and the ISU did the right thing here. Very quickly.

 

[manhn]

How would people know that a car belongs to a Russian (unless there are Russian flags on the vehicle or something like that)? With all the anti-Chinese rhetoric these past couple years or so, there was a rise in violence against Asians generally, because, ya know, Asians all look the same or we're all Chinese. But any anger directed at Russia is due to their violence against Ukraine. The chance to inadvertently hurt a Ukrainian person is high.

 

[skatingguy]

How would people know that a car belongs to a Russian (unless there are Russian flags on the vehicle or something like that)? With all the anti-Chinese rhetoric these past couple years or so, there was a rise in violence against Asians generally, because, ya know, Asians all look the same or we're all Chinese. But any anger directed at Russia is due to their violence against Ukraine. The chance to inadvertently hurt a Ukrainian person is high.

The kind of people who go around accosting Russians generally aren't going to care if the person they accost has the wrong ethnicity, or nationality.

 

[aka_gerbil]

The chance to inadvertently hurt a Ukrainian person is high.

That and no one deserves to be harassed because of where they came from. Yet, it’s a wash, rinse, repeat feature of society. Germans, Japanese, Muslims, Arabics, Asians, and now Russians and others of Slavic descent.

I was thinking this morning about a plane trip I made a few months after 9/11. When they were boarding the plane, they were pulling people supposedly randomly for extra screening. A man of Middle Eastern ethnicity was behind me in the line. The guard finished extra screening a person and I should have been the next person extra screened. I made the comment “I think I’m next” as the guard looked at both me and the man behind me. The guard waved me to go through instead… all because of appearance and gender. It’s been 20 years and it still bothers me it happened.

 

[MacMadame]

Germany is a rich country, but even here rinks are often closing down, because most of them are old and would have to be renovated and then there's not enough money for that, so old ones get closed down.

This happens in the US too. It's cheaper to build a new one than to renovate an old one. It can take millions to bring an old rink up to code. The new rinks are usually multi-surface too as that allows a greater variety of programs.

 

[Coco]

Given the American perception of Russia for the foreseeable future, Avonley made it harder on herself switching a Ukrainian partner for a Russian one, if she’s still with Smirnov. Just a random thought.

I don't think most Americans can distinguish a Russian name from a Ukrainian name.

Where is Annabelle Morozov and her dad right now? Are they in NJ? What a scary time.

 

[kwanfan1818]

That comment was about Diana Davis, not Anabelle Morozov.

.

 

[aka_gerbil]

I don't think most Americans can distinguish a Russian name from a Ukrainian name.

Where is Annabelle Morozov and her dad right now? Are they in NJ? What a scary time.

Her dad was in Connecticut choreographing, I’m hoping she’s here with him.

 

[angi]

I don't think most Americans can distinguish a Russian name from a Ukrainian name.

Where is Annabelle Morozov and her dad right now? Are they in NJ? What a scary time.

I've read on Twitter that TSL are circulating rumors that they are both in the US and that she's either getting or already gotten a new partner.

 

[Karen-W]

I've read on Twitter that TSL are circulating rumors that they are both in the US and that she's either getting or already gotten a new partner.

Hmmmm... wonder if we'll see a country change for her. She does have options - France has some good teams coming up but I'd wager Morozov/new partner could get one of the spots that will be available for Worlds - Lopareva/Brissaud should have a strong chance for the other one.

 

[skatingguy]

Hmmmm... wonder if we'll see a country change for her. She does have options - France has some good teams coming up but I'd wager Morozov/new partner could get one of the spots that will be available for Worlds - Lopareva/Brissaud should have a strong chance for the other one.

France will have 3 entries for next year's World Championships barring something really unusual happening.

 

[starrynight]

But wouldn’t she need a release by the Russian Fed? Given the route that Russia is going down, banning social networks, introducing tough laws for dissidents etc would it really let all of its athletes skip off to other nations? I’m sure every sport is having similar conversations right now

 

[Karen-W]

France will have 3 entries for next year's World Championships barring something really unusual happening.

Will they? I thought the ISU changed it a few years ago so that with only 1 entry the most spots you can earn is 2.

 

[aka_gerbil]

But wouldn’t she need a release by the Russian Fed? Given the route that Russia is going down, banning social networks, introducing tough laws for dissidents etc would it really let all of its athletes skip off to other nations? I’m sure every sport is having similar conversations right now

She’s holds other citizenships elsewhere in the world, and given the circumstances, the ISU can step in.

 

[starrynight]

She’s holds other citizenships elsewhere in the world, and given the circumstances, the ISU can step in.

Ok makes sense. A bit like how during the South Africa boycott, some athletes secured foreign citizenship through means such as naturalisation, marriage etc to be allowed to compete internationally.

I expect switching countries will be possible but athletes will need to take the long road.

 

[aka_gerbil]

For Annabelle, it will be much easier already having citizenship elsewhere.

 

[Belsornia]

The UCI (cycling) has introduced a regulation allowing Russian and Belarussian riders with multiple nationalities to change their sporting nationality with immediate effect. One athlete, Pavel Sivakov, has already changed his sporting nationality from Russia to France under this regulation.

I’d think the ISU should be able to do something similar for skaters with multiple nationalities.

 

[mackiecat]

Not everyone has to go to I.AM. I don’t think it’s been good for ice dance on the whole for them to coach as many teams as they do.


Not really since it’s not anything new. How many Russian girls skate for other countries already? How many US girls skate for random 4CC countries (and Paganini for Switzerland).

Isn’t the entire Georgian team Russian?