ISU Statement on Russia's war against Ukraine - Participation in international competitions of Skaters and Officials from Russia and Belarus

[VGThuy]

I always loathed Tarasova and her ridiculous opinions and fur coats.

And her hideous choreography when she didn't have a real choreographer working with her.

 

[Primorskaya]

Yeah, Tarasova and a few other high octane Russian divas are entertaining in times of peace, but right now they need to go away. It seems no depths will be left unplumbed in the self-serving Olympics. Using the word "murder" to talk about what the Canadian athletes did while warmly approving the actual murder of Ukrainians is a new low. But she's a ridiculous puffed-up old bag so who cares.
Zueva's reply was more pernicious. Saying "I can't say anything specific about Tessa, better ask those who shaped her consciousness at an early age" implies she's been brainwashed (by whom, to what end, into which ideology?). This while the Russian state has now made it a required part of the curriculum to indoctrinate schoolchildren with their paranoid "besieged by enemies" shite.

On the subject of "what's it like inside Russia right now", an excellent article summing up the situation. One of the highlighted comments (by someone called nonevernotuntrue) is as good as the article itself and a history lesson. Tallies with everything I witnessed when living there:

Putin’s ‘holy war’ is terrorising Ukraine – and Russian dissenters. All they ask is that we don’t forget them | Rafael Behr

They know our first sympathy must be with Ukraine, as is theirs. But they need our support in this time of repression, says Guardian columnist Rafael Behr

www.theguardian.com

 

[coppertop1]

The petition signed by the retired Canadian Olympians

 

[Winnipeg]

Good for athletes signing the petition! I cannot believe there is even consideration allowing these athletes to compete during an unprovoked war caused by their country.

 

[Hedwig]

If they do I will not watch. I would miss skating so much but I could not watch Russian skaters right now without wanting to vomit. I would always have the support to the war that many proudly showed in my mind or the winy self entitled voice of Tarasova and would know that even those among them that dont support this war and are victims of a totalitarian regime would help this regime by competing so I would not be able to watch even them.

 

[hanca]

If they do I will not watch. I would miss skating so much but I could not watch Russian skaters right now without wanting to vomit. I would always have the support to the war that many proudly showed in my mind or the winy self entitled voice of Tarasova and would know that even those among them that dont support this war and are victims of a totalitarian regime would help this regime by competing so I would not be able to watch even them.

But you happily watched Savchenko/Szolkowy while you knew that their coach was a part of Stasi and therefore caused harm to other people?

 

[Hedwig]

Funny, I should know better than to look under ignored content, but anyway - if you read back my post history you will find that I was arguing heavily about how justified it is that Steuer was not paid anymore by the German government and how horrible the Stasi regime is to the point that posters here on FSU told me to better stop arguing because I was only hurting myself because I became so distraught when other argued against it and said that he did no harm. So maybe better not make assumptions about what someone is or is not doing.

But even if I were - so what? Should we all put an blind eye to everything ever because at one time someone was not punished by law or because we did not know about a particular country doing something bad to another country? Should all bad deeds get a pass because at one point in time someone did not protest about it? Should all rapist stay out of prison because that one (or much too many times...) someone was not convicted? SHould rape in marriage still be legal because at one point it was?

Let us protest and change what is wrong NOW and stop with your Russian paid whataboutism. You know you are supporting murders and rapist with this so why do you go on? Not that I will read your answer so don't bother to reply.

 

[hanca]

Funny, I should know better than to look under ignored content, but anyway - if you read back my post history you will find that I was arguing heavily about how justified it is that Steuer was not paid anymore by the German government and how horrible the Stasi regime is to the point that posters here on FSU told me to better stop arguing because I was only hurting myself because I became so distraught when other argued against it and said that he did no harm. So maybe better not make assumptions about what someone is or is not doing.

But even if I were - so what? Should we all put an blind eye to everything ever because at one time someone was not punished by law or because we did not know about a particular country doing something bad to another country? Should all bad deeds get a pass because at one point in time someone did not protest about it? Should all rapist stay out of prison because that one (or much too many times...) someone was not convicted? SHould rape in marriage still be legal because at one point it was?

No, you misunderstood. I believe it is wrong to sanction Steuer for many years after, and I believe it is wrong to sanction Russian skaters in this circumstance. It is very hard to judge someone for something they were pushed to do by the political regime if you haven’t been raised in that regime. I have no compassion for the Russian soldiers because they do the killing. But I would not sanction in any way anyone who post something on their public media or attend some events. We never know what is in the background - is it their real opinion or were they pushed into it from whatever reason? In my childhood, we attended compulsory celebrations on first May, celebrating the communist party and even at 15 I wasn’t aware of the real story of communism because my parents were very careful about what they said in front of their children. And we did have a good time at those events - as we would have on any other event when you can spend time with your friends instead of going to school. I think it is beyond understanding of many people why some skaters attend Putin’s event, but I didn’t know any children of my age who would listen to foreign news, so I am guessing Russian children are likely to be watching state controlled Russian news (if they watch news at all) so of course they would believe the propaganda up to some extent.

 

[airgelaal]

Does this mean that we should forgive the rapist if he was bullied and beaten as a child? Or should Ukrainians feel better simply because the russians have been brainwashed? The total majority of russian athletes were abroad and had the opportunity to see the world outside of russia. But still chose to believe in russia
And I agree that there is no evidence that they are forced. I have repeatedly cited Belarus as an example, where athletes are indeed imprisoned. But they are fighting. And only russians are afraid and forced to go to Z rallies

 

[Hedwig]

And I agree that there is no evidence that they are forced. I have repeatedly cited Belarus as an example, where athletes are indeed imprisoned. But they are fighting. And only russians are afraid and forced to go to Z rallies

I have to admit - I would not be brave. I would like to but I think I would not go to rallies against the war if it could mean harm to me or my child. I don't blame skaters like Sherbakova not speaking out.

But I blame those that are not quiet. That support a war. Someone like Tarasova who has enough sources to find information instead of brainwashing those around her even more. Who are old enough to think for themselves and who do have access to information.

They don't need to be brave and let themselves be thrown in prison. Not supporting a despot openly and not cheering on murder on a sovereign state is an incredibly low bar but some are not even able to do that much. And it would have been enough for me.

 

[MacMadame]

But you happily watched Savchenko/Szolkowy while you knew that their coach was a part of Stasi and therefore caused harm to other people?

How do you know how "happily" anyone watches any team? Not that one situation is anything like the other. (Both are bad but in completely different ways.)

whataboutism is so interesting to watch as it involves such convoluted logic.

 

[airgelaal]

I have to admit - I would not be brave. I would like to but I think I would not go to rallies against the war if it could mean harm to me or my child. I don't blame skaters like Sherbakova not speaking out.

There are 140 million people in russia. Less than 10 million people live in Belarus. In Belarus, thousands of athletes opposed Lukashenko, and in russia - none.
There is the most obvious answer to this - everything suits them.

 

[VGThuy]

Funny, I should know better than to look under ignored content,

Seriously. That’s it’s just better to keep it ignored because I don’t think there’s value gained from further interaction.

 

[hanca]

Does this mean that we should forgive the rapist if he was bullied and beaten as a child? Or should Ukrainians feel better simply because the russians have been brainwashed? The total majority of russian athletes were abroad and had the opportunity to see the world outside of russia. But still chose to believe in russia
And I agree that there is no evidence that they are forced. I have repeatedly cited Belarus as an example, where athletes are indeed imprisoned. But they are fighting. And only russians are afraid and forced to go to Z rallies

No, as I have said above, I have no sympathy for anyone who did actual physical harm to others - they should know better. But I am against persecuting people for their opinions when we don’t even know the reason for their opinions. If I could attend marches celebrating and supporting the communist party as a 15 year old (without even being aware what it was - for us it was a fun day spent with our friends instead of sitting at school), I am not going to be hypocritical and judge someone of the same age I was at that time, who now may believe Putin’s version of events. I have no sympathy for Tarasenko who actually decided to go and fight, but anyone else - for me unless they do physical harm, they are off the hook. As someone who grew up in a communist country, I am very well aware how strong brainwashing can be.

 

[hanca]

I have to admit - I would not be brave. I would like to but I think I would not go to rallies against the war if it could mean harm to me or my child. I don't blame skaters like Sherbakova not speaking out.

But I blame those that are not quiet. That support a war. Someone like Tarasova who has enough sources to find information instead of brainwashing those around her even more. Who are old enough to think for themselves and who do have access to information.

They don't need to be brave and let themselves be thrown in prison. Not supporting a despot openly and not cheering on murder on a sovereign state is an incredibly low bar but some are not even able to do that much. And it would have been enough for me.

I really respect that you admit that. Not many people on this forum do. The thing is, you would probably not worry about yourself because teenagers/young adults feel that as if nothing can harm them. But if you knew other people who were ‘punished’ by the state, you would do as you are told because you worry about your family. When communists were beaten in our country, my parents were finally able to speak openly and things I heard… people they knew who disappeared and were never seen again, their family didn’t even know what happened to them. Adults being kicked out of their jobs and because being unemployed was a crime by our law and they couldn’t find another job, they ended up in coal mining (qualified teachers and doctors!). Children never getting to university because all it took was one phone call from communist party to advise that this family is ‘dodgy’… I am telling you, it is easy for many posters here to sit and judge, and keep saying ‘there is never a proof that they would be sanctioned’, but I lived in it, and I can see the consequences of stepping out of the line.

 

[hanca]

Seriously. That’s it’s just better to keep it ignored because I don’t think there’s value gained from further interaction.

I never forced you to read any of my posts. Trust me, that I wouldn’t be upset if you don’t. I don’t give a damn about you or your opinions.

 

[airgelaal]

There has been no communism in russia for 30 years. No one blocked access to alternative media either. I repeat, there is no need to make North Korea out of russia. russia was not the only country in the Soviet Union, but other countries do not suffer from delusions of grandeur. And if you look at the history of russia, then the russians were the same 100 years ago, and 200 years and 300.
I already wrote in this thread and I can repeat that the russians know their country very well and everything suits them. russian athletes know that sport is a priority area for russia. russia will use all its influence and money to bring russians back into the international arena. And as we can see from fencing, it works out great. Then why should they do anything when they can train, perform in shows and wait until they can triumphantly return to international competitions.
How can you be brainwashed into thinking that it is right to kill thousands of people and destroy entire cities. This is indifference at best. But I am more than sure that russians simply consider themselves better than others and that they are allowed to do anything And this position kills no less than soldiers with weapons in their hands.

 

[hanca]

It is not only communists who can oppress their population. Russia is far from democracy and stepping out if line can have plenty of consequences. One could have an accident and fall out of window…

I know you are going through extremely hard times, but please don’t twist my words. I DO NOT think it is right to kill thousands of people. But I also don’t think it is right to punish people for expressing their opinions. People can get brainwashed and I wouldn’t punish teenagers and young adults for that, as long as they are not the ones who go out and do the killing.

 

[_Lola_]

There is the most obvious answer to this - everything suits them.

You have no idea what you're talking about. Tutberidze didn't go to the meeting with Putin to accept a medal for her merits this past week. She said she got sick. Again, this past week, Trusova and Kondratiuk were announced to be part of the propaganda opera. They declined it. Things like that happen all the time.

 

[bladesofgorey]

You have no idea what you're talking about. Tutberidze didn't go to the meeting with Putin to accept a medal for her merits this past week. She said she got sick. Again, this past week, Trusova and Kondratiuk were announced to be part of the propaganda opera. They declined it. Things like that happen all the time.

Well then which is it? Hanca says nobody can decline and so even the most fervent supporters must be forgiven since they aren't pulling the triggers or torturing anyone themselves. Yet you are saying people refuse to support this in Russia all the time. It can't be both.

 

[sus2850]

According to my logic, I believe either every skater with a Russian passport should be banned (including Malinin - if he has dual citizenship that includes Russian citizenship) or none of Russian skaters should be banned. As it is now, it blames a group of Russian skaters for something that was completely out of their control just based on their citizenship, while another group of Russian skaters happily compete. I can’t see why Gubanova, Sviatchenko, Pavlova, Kvitelashvilli and whole list of other Russian skaters are deemed ‘innocent’ and therefore able to compete while someone like Mukhortova/Evgeneev, Artemeva/Briukhanov and many many others ‘are guilty’ and therefore can’t compete. The problem is, if they ban every skater of Russian background, there won’t be enough competitors to have pairs and ice dance at Europeans, which would annoy many countries so lets pretend that some Russian skaters are to blame for having a lunatic as their president while other Russian skaters are ‘ok, it is not their fault’.

It mght be stated already, but: They are not banned because of their citizenship. They are banned because skating is state funded in Russia, so they represent the Russisn regime.
That is why athletes from Russia who are active independently in non-state funded sports like tennis are allowed to continue. I think this is a clear rule.

That a lot of European countries have native Russians or skaters from other nations represent them is of course a development that says a lot about the state of skating as a high level sport for children in a certain country.

In Germany our best male single skater is a Russian training in Belgium (his grandmother lives in Germany, he says), our best female single skater is born in Germany and trains there and has Polish parents, the second best female single skater is Russian but lives in Germany (where she was born but left from as a toddler) since 2013. Germany‘s Olympic gold medalists from 2018 are from Ukraine and France. Our two successful pairs teams now are from Belgium and Finland/Russia and train in Oberstdorf plus from Berlin but train in Italy. The ice dancers are from Oberstdorf and Chemnitz and train in Oberstdorf.
Oberstdorf now is basically the only German high level training facility. There is almost no interest in figure skating as a sport and so not that many kids are taking it up. So the German fed is glad, especially in the team disciplines, to have skaters that have passports from whereever represent Germany. And if they try to learn German it is a nice bonus. Efimova speaks it better than Starostin and Massot.

 

[Miezekatze]

I think Nikita's German has improved a lot, he promised Tatjana Flade to give his interviews in German this year and they did this at German Nationals, he also posts in German on Instagram now.
It's certainly better than I think Massot's ever was.

Plus parts of his family and himself have been living in Germany for periods of times for years, he was in Germany back in 2016, 2017, 2018, according to his Instagram, he was in Oberstdorf back then.

His mom used to do adult figure skating for Germany representing the EC Oberstdorf, so I guess she used to live in Germany for several years (I assume she might not be able to work in Germany right now):

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

At Nebelhorn Trophy last season, his grandparents and his mom were sitting directly in front of us, which is why I looked them up afterwards and saw that have a long history with oberstdorf skating.
So I find it quite irritating that people act as if he basically decided to represent Germany recently without no ties

It certainly says a lot about German skating though ,that even most German skaters move to other European countries to train, but then it's not surprising, there's not practically no financial support left (and it's getting even less from this year on), no good training conditions, not many coaches and lots of nasty politics. Even though with Starostin I assume he moved to Belgium, because he had been working with Adam Solya back in 2016-2018 already, I assume he maybe just wanted to constantly train with him.

 

[sap5]

A screenshot of the letter (2 photos) has been tweeted by Perdita Felicien: https://twitter.com/perditafelicien/status/1633975580742897665

ETA: Tessa Virtue and Meagan Duhamel are the 2 figure skaters who signed and Kaitlyn Weaver replied "I’m sure they would have had more than 40 signatures if it was sent to more people! Missing from my inbox "

Why wasn’t Kaitlyn given an opportunity to sign? Was there a rush to get this out?

 

[On My Own]

No, you misunderstood. I believe it is wrong to sanction Steuer for many years after, and I believe it is wrong to sanction Russian skaters in this circumstance. It is very hard to judge someone for something they were pushed to do by the political regime if you haven’t been raised in that regime. I have no compassion for the Russian soldiers because they do the killing. But I would not sanction in any way anyone who post something on their public media or attend some events. We never know what is in the background - is it their real opinion or were they pushed into it from whatever reason? In my childhood, we attended compulsory celebrations on first May, celebrating the communist party and even at 15 I wasn’t aware of the real story of communism because my parents were very careful about what they said in front of their children. And we did have a good time at those events - as we would have on any other event when you can spend time with your friends instead of going to school. I think it is beyond understanding of many people why some skaters attend Putin’s event, but I didn’t know any children of my age who would listen to foreign news, so I am guessing Russian children are likely to be watching state controlled Russian news (if they watch news at all) so of course they would believe the propaganda up to some extent.

You know, I actually get what you're saying? That if you're raised in abusive environments like the Russian athletes clearly are and then the government pours wealth on your head because you "succeeded for the motherland", it probably gets to you. Like it was all true and worth it, so they must promote Russia's greatness as well for the future generations.

I just wouldn't apply it to people like Tarasova/Morozov, when as it's been pointed out, Shcherbakova exists, and silence clearly isn't taking anything.

 

[airgelaal]

It is not only communists who can oppress their population. Russia is far from democracy and stepping out if line can have plenty of consequences. One could have an accident and fall out of window…

How many athletes opposed the war and fell out of the window? Athletes support the war 100%, but they want to compete in international competitions, so they are silent. Is there evidence that I'm wrong? Moreover, I'm sure I'm right.
I don't know what I'm talking about? It's you who don't know what you're talking about. There is one proof - no one spoke out against the war. Well, except that Davis and Smolkin wrote something anti-war and they did not have a single problem. How convenient it is to spread this myth about poor and intimidated athletes. But so far, these very athletes are making good money from the war even when they are silent.

 

[karmena]

How many athletes opposed the war and fell out of the window? Athletes support the war 100%, but they want to compete in international competitions, so they are silent. Is there evidence that I'm wrong? Moreover, I'm sure I'm right.
I don't know what I'm talking about? It's you who don't know what you're talking about. There is one proof - no one spoke out against the war. Well, except that Davis and Smolkin wrote something anti-war and they did not have a single problem. How convenient it is to spread this myth about poor and intimidated athletes. But so far, these very athletes are making good money from the war even when they are silent.

Exactly.

 

[hanca]

Well then which is it? Hanca says nobody can decline and so even the most fervent supporters must be forgiven since they aren't pulling the triggers or torturing anyone themselves. Yet you are saying people refuse to support this in Russia all the time. It can't be both.

Another person who can’t resist putting words in my mouth when convenient? I don’t claim that ‘nobody can decline’, I am saying that ‘most people are scared to decline and that they do have a good reason for that. Can you see the difference?

 

[Nadya]

How many athletes opposed the war and fell out of the window? Athletes support the war 100%, but they want to compete in international competitions, so they are silent. Is there evidence that I'm wrong? Moreover, I'm sure I'm right.
I don't know what I'm talking about? It's you who don't know what you're talking about. There is one proof - no one spoke out against the war. Well, except that Davis and Smolkin wrote something anti-war and they did not have a single problem. How convenient it is to spread this myth about poor and intimidated athletes. But so far, these very athletes are making good money from the war even when they are silent.

I hope you understand that the evidence you're looking for does not exist; science is not yet equipped to read minds. The only evidence we have is that the athletes are silent. The "why" part is a guess.

Also, "moreover, I'm sure" is not really something called "evidence". It's fine for you to have opinions. It's not fine to sell them as evidence.

 

[tmari]

Is fear, or perhaps lack of access to information, the primary reason for Russians not opposing the war?

Well, let's consider the millions of Russians living safely in the European Union, with access to a wide variety of news sources.
A few members of the Russian diaspora have condemned the war, but the vast majority have not. Are we supposed to believe they all have close family members trapped in Russia?

The Iranian diaspora has organized large demonstrations to show their opposition to the Iranian regime. Why hasn't the Russian diaspora done anything similar?

Have they at least rallied on the internet to condemn the war? Or do they prefer whataboutism to distract/deflect from Russia's actions?

 

[Ananas Astra]

Is fear, or perhaps lack of access to information, the primary reason for Russians not opposing the war?

Well, let's consider the millions of Russians living safely in the European Union, with access to a wide variety of news sources.
A few members of the Russian diaspora have condemned the war, but the vast majority have not. Are we supposed to believe they all have close family members trapped in Russia?

The Iranian diaspora has organized large demonstrations to show their opposition to the Iranian regime. Why hasn't the Russian diaspora done anything similar?

Have they at least rallied on the internet to condemn the war? Or do they prefer whataboutism to distract/deflect from Russia's actions?

Quite a few of my friends in Germany are Russians or have Russian roots and most of them (let's say 70-80%), including myself, oppose the war and want it to end. Most of them keep posting anti-war stuff.