Ermolina's interview with Mishin `A programme without the quads is empty'

[VGThuy]

Would there have been enough time to process Kovtun/Voronov? I know the Olympics are a lot stricter about putting in substitutions.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Yes, if he had said he was injured in the TE FS or soon thereafter. IIRC, it was all in the Sochi TE documentation.

After his comment, they actually added strong language in the follow-up document, anticipating that he'd do what he said.

 

[Tinami Amori]

It was genius to announce publicly that he only intended to skate in the Team Event in Sochi, when the rules clearly stated that he also had to skate the individual competition.

Can you give a link to a piece where Plushenko said "he only intended to skate Team Event and then withdraw from Individual"? I recall he said "he knew he could pull off Team Event for sure with hope and intent to skate individual".....

 

[kwanfan1818]

Offhand, no. It was widely discussed at the time that he had no clue when he made the statement, and you should be able to find it in the Archives. Whatever he said, the ISU understood his intent, because in the follow-up documentation, they added specific language to squash it.

 

[Bellanca]

Can you give a link to a piece where Plushenko said "he only intended to skate Team Event and then withdraw from Individual"? I recall he said "he knew he could pull off Team Event for sure with hope and intent to skate individual".....

My at the time thought that Plushy kind of wanted to gauge how he was feeling after the team event going into the men's single discipline. IMHO, based on the scuttlebutt back then, I truly believe that he wanted to go for it, but could not. I know there are skating fans who will disagree w/ me, but first and foremost, Plushy was a competitor!

 

[Tinami Amori]

Offhand, no. It was widely discussed at the time that he had no clue when he made the statement, and you should be able to find it in the Archives. Whatever he said, the ISU understood his intent, because in the follow-up documentation, they added specific language to squash it.

I don't need "Archives", since i read the Russian interviews pre and post Olympics. Plushenko is ambitious, he thought he can handle all events, wanted to be a "superman", but yes, knew there is a chance he will not be able to skate individual event. If the issues is "intent", then yes he intended. If the issue is "knowing low probability of this happening"? yes, he knew the probability is low, but still wanted to try..... well, he is no different than Kwan who went to Turin Olympics injured, in hope she can handle it. And to the argument "but she withdrew in time to let another skater in", the contra-argument is "but Plushenko DID skate and helped Russian Team win Gold".

B
My at the time thought that Plushy kind of wanted to gauge how he was feeling after the team event going into the men's single discipline. IMHO, based on the scuttlebutt back then, I truly believe that he wanted to go for it, but could not. I know there are skating fans who will disagree w/ me, but first and foremost, Plushy was a competitor!

That's what i am pretty sure he said and intended to do.

 

[kwanfan1818]

He said he wanted to go for it while he was in Sochi. Sometime in the fall of 2013, he said he wanted to do the TE and let someone else to do the IE, which was clearly against the rules in the first TE announcement. When the follow-up was issued by the ISU, they added language to make it clear that this was not an option, where there was only one competitor that qualified for the IE.

If he hadn't said anything publicly about his earlier intent, he could have played it by ear, which I suspect meant he would have changed his mind and tried to compete in the IE as well, but if he had said he was too injured after the TE, people could have had all of the suspicions they wanted, but it's not like he didn't have an inventory of injuries for plausible deniability.

ETA: Mishin may have been the one who disclosed it in an interview, but Plushenko wasn't hiding it.

 

[misskarne]

He said he wanted to go for it while he was in Sochi. Sometime in the fall of 2013, he said he wanted to do the TE and let someone else to do the IE, which was clearly against the rules in the first TE announcement.

Ah yes, I do recall this statement. It was given as an answer in an interview, when he was asked which event he would do if he could choose. He gave a perfectly reasonable answer to the question, but of course, when the answer became public, it delighted Plushenko's haters to ignore the question...

 

[kwanfan1818]

but of course, when the answer became public, it delighted Plushenko's haters to ignore the question...

So you can just take the question and ignore the answer, which was his intent?

Had he said, if it were allowed by the rules, or he wished it were the rules, he would do the TE and let someone else do the IE, it wouldn't have caused the ISU to be specific in the documentation.

But because he responded with his intent, it appalled the fans of other Russian Men that he had ruined it for them.

 

[misskarne]

So you can just take the question and ignore the answer, which was his intent?

No, you cannot ignore the question, because the question gives context to the answer, which was framed as a hypothetical if he could choose.

 

[kwanfan1818]

And he answered what he was planning to do, so he didn't answer the question.

 

[Tinami Amori]

He said he wanted to go for it while he was in Sochi. Sometime in the fall of 2013, he said he wanted to do the TE and let someone else to do the IE, which was clearly against the rules in the first TE announcement. When the follow-up was issued by the ISU, they added language to make it clear that this was not an option, where there was only one competitor that qualified for the IE.

If he hadn't said anything publicly about his earlier intent, he could have played it by ear, which I suspect meant he would have changed his mind and tried to compete in the IE as well, but if he had said he was too injured after the TE, people could have had all of the suspicions they wanted, but it's not like he didn't have an inventory of injuries for plausible deniability.

ETA: Mishin may have been the one who disclosed it in an interview, but Plushenko wasn't hiding it.

Ok…… here we go. Sometimes in the later part of 2013, when Pluschenko was undergoing some procedures, he was interviewed in passing, and said something like “Yes I hope to skate in the Olympics, I want to skate Team event, and the young ones can skate the Individual”. (It was a “wish”). His comment was spread by media as a sensationalist statement “Pluschenko will skate Team event, will let young ones skate Individual”.

Mishin jumped in saying something like “don’t pin words to an emotional Pluschenko (emotional, due to pains)” and explained that Pluschenko is not familiar with details of participation rules/conditions.

Then Mishin explained to Pluschenko the Rules. After that in the next interview Pluschneko said “I chose not skate in Europeans because I am preparing and saving all my strength for Olympics because of how many routines i have to skate”. All following interviews Pluschenko made it clear that he intends to skate both, Team and Individual.

After he performed his LP in the Team event, he was already feeling pain in his back, which could have been confirmed by doctors. At that time, on the night of the last day of the Team event, he could have legitimately withdraw, at that time Kovtun or Voronov would be able to legitimately skate in the Individual event. Pluschenko consulted with members of Russian Federation, and decision was made for him to skate anyway. He went to practice, felt hurt, but still showed up at the SP event, and withdrew during warm-up.

He fulfilled his obligations as best as he could.

 

[kwanfan1818]

No one is disputing whether he fulfilled his obligation. The point is, had he not said anything, when the rules had already been published, he could have skated in Euros and the TE, and then have withdrawn after the TE -- no one was going to dispute he was injured after the surgeries he had had -- and then the Russian Fed could have appointed someone else. Or he could have decided whether to skate the IE after the TE, which might also have been a possibility. (Whether it was Kovtun or Voronov is still disputed, because each had reason to think it would have been he.)

 

[Tinami Amori]

let's leave it here, or we'll be going in circles...

 

[lala]

@kwanfan1818 I remember a Tarasova's opinion "stupid person wont be champion".

Well, if he had planned to skate only on the team event, would he have told the media? And he knew the Russians can't change the skater?

Do you believe that? Really???? That was their plan with Mishin???? And Plushenko told to media? Really? OMG!

One thing is sure you are an obsessed hater..

 

[kwanfan1818]

He was planning to do four programs Those four were originally going to be Euros and the TE. After the ISU changed the TE documentation to make this clear that this wasn't acceptable, he changed his plan to skip Euros and skate four programs at the Olympics.

What I don't have is an obsession that Plushenko is infallible.

 

[lala]

He was planning to do four programs Those four were originally going to be Euros and the TE. After the ISU changed the TE documentation to make this clear that this wasn't acceptable, he changed his plan to skip Euros and skate four programs at the Olympics.

What I don't have is an obsession that Plushenko is infallible.

Plushenko isn't infallible but he isn't idiot. Big difference.

Mishin didn't allow him to go to the ECH, but he wanted.( If you want you can find the article on Plushenko's official site, that is a big database about his every steps. ) Mishin said he isn't ready, he needs more time for Sochi. Plushenko had test skate in 22 of January.
But I'm bored this. Do you know what? You think what you want...
( And I also think what I want...with a big smile on my face..https://www.instagram.com/p/BWjyQu5F7Nm/ )

 

[Tinami Amori]

He was planning to do four programs Those four were originally going to be Euros and the TE. After the ISU changed the TE documentation to make this clear that this wasn't acceptable, he changed his plan to skip Euros and skate four programs at the Olympics.
What I don't have is an obsession that Plushenko is infallible.

So, then what are we arguing about? You originally implied that Pluschenko "was planning to skip Individual event intentionally"..

 

[kwanfan1818]

He was planning to skate four programs: Euros (2) and TE (2), ie, skipping the IE intentionally.

He was planning for another Russian man to skate the IE, at least as of the Fall. Although once he was on the ice, he might have changed his mind, because he was that type of competitor, and it would have been his right, as the only Russian Man assigned to the Olympic team.

 

[Jammers]

Of course Plushenko had no plans to skate in the individual event there was no way with his broken down body he was going to be able to skate 4 times in 8 days. No doubt that's why he didn't go to ECH either he knew he couldn't skate in 3 separate competitions in less then 2 months.