Can't Help Falling In Love ... with Hubbell & Donohue (fan thread #2)

[angi]

I watched videos of the live RD practice session and they were for me by far the best, for sure better than P/C. They have a more challenging program, better speed, and ice coverage. Unfortunately, if both teams will look like they did at practice it won't matter much since it's pretty much pre-determined at this point.

 

[deegee]

i really thought that was gonna be a point or two closer to p&c

 

[VGThuy]

i really thought that was gonna be a point or two closer to p&c

They're creating a buffer. Only bronze is up for grabs it seems, just like 2018.

 

[angi]

i really thought that was gonna be a point or two closer to p&c

It should have been. That should have gotten at least 86 and in a fair world would out score P/C.

 

[clairecloutier]

Great program for them today—some parts really outstanding. I’m wondering if they can add something/tweak the music a bit to add more oomph to the end of the Midnight Blues section. I did feel like there was a bit of a valley of intensity at the end of that section. I think just a little more tweaking and working on climaxes in the music will give it just a bit more. P.S. I do think their score could’ve been closer to P/C. The judges indicated which way they were leaning with the very first GOE on P/C’s twizzles.

 

[deegee]

i

It should have been. That should have gotten at least 86 and in a fair world would out score P/C.

i'm ok with the placement. it's fine by me that the judges are rewarding p&c's ability to make everything they do look effortless. tanith once remarked that p&c never demonstrate any tension in their bodies no matter what their blades are doing. yes, h&d have sheer, raw power and a comparably beautiful knee action/glide to p&c. but i think when it comes down to it, the judges prefer the guise of effortlessness over raw power.

(i do think that h&d demonstrate a great deal of effortlessness in how they generate speed, etc, in relation to most of the field but p&c are just on a different level)

 

[bcash]

I think they should've been scored way above G/P in any competition. But I saw the programs here in Torino from the same fan camera angle and I saw no "greater" speed and coverage from H/D as compared with P/C. Anyway I still think the biggest thing that they can think about, that is in their control, is the...program packaging, as much as I dislike that word. Neither the RD nor the FD makes them shine. The RD especially feels conventional and unexciting.

 

[Bigbird]

I think they should've been scored way above G/P in any competition. But I saw the programs here in Torino from the same fan camera angle and I saw no "greater" speed and coverage from H/D as compared with P/C. Anyway I still think the biggest thing that they can think about, that is in their control, is the...program packaging, as much as I dislike that word. Neither the RD nor the FD makes them shine. The RD especially feels conventional and unexciting.

I really like the RD for H/D. I think both P/C and H/D should have been scored higher for what they did. P/C should be closer to 90 with H/D closer to 87. How I really wish H/D had done a Tango or a Flamenco. They have all this power, dynamism and softness and it's just hidden in this flat piece of music. I know this is what Maddie wanted but as they get more comfortable with it, it's beginning to look bland.

 

[Sylvia]

Re-posting @Ka3sha's link here - Hubbell/Donohue interview for Russian press after Italian GP event

«Ты такая сильная, но я больше не могу». Голливудская история лучших фигуристов США

Брату Мэдисон Хаббелл платили за выступления с сестрой. А потом в жизни американки началась настоящая «Санта-Барбара».

www.championat.com

In an exclusive conversation with the "Championship" correspondent, Madison and Zachary explained how the relationship between rivals in ice dancing differs from other types, named their friends among Russian figure skaters and told how they managed to keep the sports duo after breaking up in life. Madison and Zachary dated for three years, and for the last seven years the girl has been in a relationship with Spaniard Adrian Diaz. Donohue, on the other hand, met for a long time with Diaz's partner Olivia Smart, and now he is happy with [Australian ice dancer] Chantelle Kerry.

Machine translated excerpts:

ZD: For the first time at the Olympics, we felt pressure, but now everything will be different. We could have left long before Beijing, but we just want to perform and try to get this coveted medal. It would be the icing on the cake, not one of the main ingredients. We will do our best to approach the Olympics in the best condition and perform in the best possible way, but we will not put too much pressure on ourselves. We have no obsession.

Have you already thought about what you will do after the end of your career?
MH: We would like to create some projects. Maybe go on tour around the world. Although, for a start, it would be nice to decide where to live. I would like to create a school with Adrian. Maybe shorten the distance between the USA and Spain, maybe do a project in Spain. He always had to live away from his family because there were no other options.

MH: We are really friends with our opponents outside the ice. Of course, sometime we are more inclined to communicate, and sometime we are more closed and vulnerable. This weekend we were a little upset after the rhythm dance because we were counting on high levels of some elements but didn't get them. You work hard and it doesn't always pay off. But we need to focus on what we like about our skating. We athletes are our biggest critics of ourselves, we know what we want to improve. At the Olympics, we want to show the best possible version of our program.
ZD: There is really a lot of respect between us and our opponents. Ivan ( Bukin - Approx. "Championship ") and I are on excellent terms, we get along very well with many of my Russian friends. In fact, I do not see an enemy in anyone. We are all athletes who try our best to show our best.

MH: I recently heard Romain Hagenauer talk about ice dancing as a mature sport when compared to more dynamic disciplines (male and female single skating), in which the opponents are getting younger and younger. If you know how to jump and all the technical elements are completed, you can quickly reach the top. While in ice dancing, to achieve the right intimacy, companionship and maturity, you have to skate together for at least ten years, maybe 15. It takes time to climb to the top. And therefore you create harmony around yourself, surround yourself with comrades, like-minded people.
I met many of our rivals even before I turned 20, and, of course, during this time they know something about my personal life (laughs) . They know that Adrian Diaz and I have been together for seven years, they can ask when our wedding will take place and all that. There are indeed more human moments in our form and certainly no hatred.

 

[TheresMaude]

Now that we’re officially in a lull, I thought I’d take a wade in the shallow end: I think Maddie bears a facial resemblance to Kristen Stewart. Perhaps a pixie cut a la KS is in order?

 

[VGThuy]

Now that we’re officially in a lull, I thought I’d take a wade in the shallow end: I think Maddie bears a facial resemblance to Kristen Stewart. Perhaps a pixie cut a la KS is in order?

I thought that for a while. There is a real similarity.

 

[escaflowne9282]

Now that we're officially in a lull, I thought I'd take a wade in the shallow end: I think Maddie bears a facial resemblance to Kristen Stewart. Perhaps a pixie cut a la KS is in order?

Madison had a bob haircut several years ago, so I do think she could rock short hair if she wanted to; however, I don't think any of Kristen Stewart's specific hairstyles have been that flattering.
KS seems to go for very severe styles that either lack texture and movement, or seem to just miss the right angles of her face to accentuate.

 

[Sylvia]

From Hubbell/Donohue's pre-Nationals media call today: https://twitter.com/LynnRutherford/status/1473078066926788615

On teleconference Madison Hubbell & Zach Donohue said they've reworked the RD midline steps. H. Gordon-Poltorak, ISU, was at the Italy GP & encouraged dancers to use rule changes to play w/the elements, including knee slides & touching the ice: "We're excited with those changes."
For their FD, while the 1st half is the same, Hubbell & Donohue have re-worked the choreographic step sequence in the middle and tweaked the final 40 seconds of the program: "We've touched all of the choreographic elements."

ETA another transcription - "Madison Hubbell on program changes before U.S. Nationals next month": https://twitter.com/S_V_Knight/status/1473078064942833669

 

[Alexa]

Zach and Madi also talked about taking measures to protect themselves in this time of uncertainty

https://twitter.com/anythinggoe/status/1473073131950645248?s=21

https://twitter.com/anythinggoe/status/1473073131950645248?s=21

And plans to do video training if they couldn’t go back Canada after nationals

https://twitter.com/anythinggoe/status/1473073128498675712?s=21

 

[semogal]

That FD was a great way to end their nationals careers. Congrats to Madison and Zach on winning the FD and earning the silver medal. I won't lie, I am disappointed it wasn't gold. I wanted that for them so badly. And happy belated birthday to Zach. It will certainly be a memorable one!!

 

[Plusdinfo]

I also was disappointed that gold was not theirs.

I am very pleased with their FD performance.

I don't think the judges know how to properly judge the skating skills of a certain team. Just gonna leave that here!

Anyway, onwards and upwards.

 

[~tapdancer~]

Their FD was fantastic. I love their power and speed. They are hands down, the most powerful team...in the world. Wanted gold for them but they are going to the Olympics!! We have a great US Ice Dance team for Olympics.

 

[aka_gerbil]

I don’t know what to say other than like the rest of you, I also wanted it to be gold.

I fully agree with you, @Plusdinfo

 

[Cherub721]

Madi & Zach have had a tough road compared to the other World medalists from this quad. They all had their home GP events and Nationals where they were the clear best team and could get showered with great scores. H&D's experience:

-A battle with C&B at Skate America, which they won, but they didn't get that type of runaway win with the huge gap.
-They were the top seeds at their second GP and were unlucky that unseeded P&C were invited there.
-They didn't get another crack at C&B in front of an international panel at GPF.
-They had to fight again at Nationals, and despite such a brilliant FD, a few small mistakes in the RD cost them the gold. In comparison, P&C made major errors at Nationals and S&K couldn't even finish the competition, but both will go to the Olympics with the total support of their federations.
-If H&D get selected for the Team Event, it will probably be a split, so they will go in as "one of two very strong dance teams from the US, either of which could medal" and not "the top US medal contenders in ice dance."

It's always been like this back to 2014 when they were scoring very close to the Shibs and C&B on the GP and ended up 4th.

It has made them better skaters and fighters. And that's why I believe even though they won't go in as the champions they still have excellent chances at an Olympic medal.

 

[Laura4]

Count me in as also being disappointed Madi and Zach didn't win gold. Now I'm wondering which team is going to be chosen for the team event if they decide to go with one instead of two teams for ice dance. Madi and Zach's skating skills are second to none and they have a stunning free dance. I've always thought that if any team could challenge P/C for gold, it would be them, so I'll be so disappointed if they don't get chosen for the team event.

 

[Peepsquick]

Madi & Zach have had a tough road compared to the other World medalists from this quad. They all had their home GP events and Nationals where they were the clear best team and could get showered with great scores. H&D's experience:

-A battle with C&B at Skate America, which they won, but they didn't get that type of runaway win with the huge gap.
-They were the top seeds at their second GP and were unlucky that unseeded P&C were invited there.
-They didn't get another crack at C&B in front of an international panel at GPF.
-They had to fight again at Nationals, and despite such a brilliant FD, a few small mistakes in the RD cost them the gold. In comparison, P&C made major errors at Nationals and S&K couldn't even finish the competition, but both will go to the Olympics with the total support of their federations.
-If H&D get selected for the Team Event, it will probably be a split, so they will go in as "one of two very strong dance teams from the US, either of which could medal" and not "the top US medal contenders in ice dance."

It's always been like this back to 2014 when they were scoring very close to the Shibs and C&B on the GP and ended up 4th.

It has made them better skaters and fighters. And that's why I believe even though they won't go in as the champions they still have excellent chances at an Olympic medal.

It often comes with the territory of being part of a big federation with many good contestants. It is also easier to make mistakes if you skate with unrestrained power as it happened in the RD. Add to this the fascination that people have with Madison Chock's performative skills and it becomes easy lo loose. Imo they should have gotten a better score for their FD but I am no judge.
I wish them the best for the OG!

 

[aka_gerbil]

H/D have had such a tough road to follow their whole career. They’ve never been a pet team of USFS, and it makes it all the much harder on the world stage to go up against teams who have feds that are all in for them the way France is for P/C, Russia for S/K, or Canada for G/P. H/D have simply had to run a gauntlet full of challenges and obstacles that almost no one else has had to face.

I feel like it’s almost a given that if they don’t split dance, C/B will get the nod despite H/D coming in as world silver medalists. H/D come into this as essentially being in the same position as the Shibs in 2018 (the reigning world medalists who finished second at the pre-Olympic nationals). It’s just given the lack of usfs support, I expect a different outcome.

Logically, usfs should split dance and men, but given how dance gets treated as the unwanted stepchild discipline, I expect they’ll probably split ladies or even pairs instead to reward more of their pet teams/skaters… of which h/d are not one.

Basically, I’m hoping they get a Sotnikova moment in the individual event.

 

[Vash01]

I was very disappointed that H/D didn't win. They had the best FD skate last night. However, a 2.5 deficit is insurmountable in ice dance. I hope they can fix their RD before the big games.

 

[angi]

More often than not I think H/D are the superior team in the world and should defeat P/C. Their speed, power, and edge quality are the best in the world imo and if they had the support of USFS and the judging was impartial, this quad should have been a very close P/C vs. H/D rivalry.
People love to say that H/D are prone to mistakes and they are, but the difference is that they are a team that is penalized for their mistakes much harsher than others, and they are penalized for much longer than one competition. Every time they skate they skate as the underdogs that need to prove their worth almost from scratch. It's so exhausting that I have no idea how they withstand it.

 

[SidelineSkater]

While it’s very disappointing, there are some silver linings here.

Silver will make them even hungrier to train harder to get the levels they need. I think an international panel will know their are surperior (like at SkAM), even if it’s by a small amount.

It helps that C/B have said they want to split the team event…likely bc they were #2 heading into Nats.

I would be shocked if they don’t split dance. To reward both teams mostly. But for women’s and pairs, their reward was just getting to the Olympics.

Definitely bummed but still hopeful they will be double Olympic medalists.

 

[bcash]

The thing is the 2.5-Point gap in the RD was not warranted given the noticeable difference in edge quality and overall execution of elements. I thought their starting order hurt them. No idea why they had to skate in the middle of the order essentially.

I was very disappointed that H/D didn't win. They had the best FD skate last night. However, a 2.5 deficit is insurmountable in ice dance. I hope they can fix their RD before the big games.

 

[aka_gerbil]

I think skate order could have played a role with h/d have to go fairly early.

Someone broke down and compared the key points. Very interesting.

https://twitter.com/wtficedance/status/1479626043463909376?s=21

https://twitter.com/wtficedance/status/1479644925427798020?s=21

 

[clairecloutier]

The bottom line for me is that H/D consistently show superior skating skills, ice coverage, and speed compared to a lot of their competitors, and yet the credit they receive for it is always less than it could be. It really puzzles me. Sometimes I feel like judges are almost scared of, or resistant to, the power they bring to ice dance. It's like they feel it is too unrefined or untraditional or something. (I admit I'm purely theorizing here.)

 

[Bigbird]

The bottom line for me is that H/D consistently show superior skating skills, ice coverage, and speed compared to a lot of their competitors, and yet the credit they receive for it is always less than it could be. It really puzzles me. Sometimes I feel like judges are almost scared of, or resistant to, the power they bring to ice dance. It's like they feel it is too unrefined or untraditional or something. (I admit I'm purely theorizing here.)

Look we all hate to say it but there are prejudices in ice dance. Be happy for the guys that they medalled and finished well. If the games go on as planned I hope they have a much better showing of their RD. Why did they make so many changes to the RD before such an important competition? The RD looked rough or flat in several places and that also contributed to their loss at this competition.

 

[sap5]

Coming in as US #2 may give H/D the hungry edge they need to make a huge showing at the Games. H/D know better than anyone that US #2 can still podium at the Olympics.