Canadian Ice Dance 2018-19 season news & updates

[Wyliefan]

Some of us aren't familiar with those rumours, so those posts don't really help all that much.

Oh, gotcha. I thought people just wanted the names, and hadn't seen them.

 

[nimi]

She did not find anyone local and when later on she tried out in the States both US fed and Cdn fed refused to release either skater.

You mean, aside from Sorensen, who was already training in Montreal but partnerless at that point?

Nikolaj: Yeah – and then what happened was that, in February 2012, I get this call from Vanessa Crone, Paul [Poirier]’s former partner. She says: I’m interested in skating with you, is it something you would be interested in? Can you get a release so that we can skate for Canada? And so we went through the whole process, signed papers, we were ready to skate for Canada, and then, two and a half months after, she decided to quit.

…in the meantime, Laurence has started coming to our school, to Marie and Patch…

(source)

 

[chantilly]

^ So basically, Vanessa wanted to stay with Paul but leave Carol, and Paul didn’t want to leave Carol.
Not sure what other choice there was to make.

Then she found a new partner and after a bunch of ballyhoo with releases etc Vanessa quit.

Where is all the Carol Lane is evil coming from?

If I was an up and coming coach training a team for Olympics, and one half of my team wanted to leave me and one half didn’t, I’d find someone else for the member who wanted to stay.

Paul chose Carol and not Vanessa.

Not sure why Vanessa wanted to leave in the first place.

 

[nimi]

Just came across this article on ice-dance.com (I think this hasn't been posted yet here?)
GILLES & POIRIER: 100% READY TO GO

Gilles & Poirier recently spoke on a pre-Nationals conference call. They addressed several issues including their goal to win the Canadian Championship, returning skaters, the difficult Tango Romantica and a few changes they made since the original dances were choreographed.

ETA: Oh, I see Sylvia posted a similar article (IFS Q&A) earlier on, but anyway.

 

[barbarafan]

^ So basically, Vanessa wanted to stay with Paul but leave Carol, and Paul didn’t want to leave Carol.
Not sure what other choice there was to make.

Then she found a new partner and after a bunch of ballyhoo with releases etc Vanessa quit.

Where is all the Carol Lane is evil coming from?

If I was an up and coming coach training a team for Olympics, and one half of my team wanted to leave me and one half didn’t, I’d find someone else for the member who wanted to stay.

Paul chose Carol and not Vanessa.

Not sure why Vanessa wanted to leave in the first place.

Vanessa was sick leading up to Olympics. They competed there and the breakup came after.
My only source was this form and I assumed from what it said there was a problem between Carol and Vanessa..but it did not say what.
The Carol Lane evil came from later on when her commentary on CBC was not nice about some of the other ice dance teams while of course seeing no faults whatsoever on G/P. Then she made weird comments about Tessa and Scott when they decided they would start training again and hopefully go to Olympics. Although she is a brilliant choreographer she was giving crap programs to up and coming teams. It could be like Vegas in her camp though. I have not read any specifics.

 

[mirage]

You mean, aside from Sorensen, who was already training in Montreal but partnerless at that point?

(source)

Nikolai likes to paint a picture that is not quite accurate. Many men have big egos suffice it to say.

He had already been training in Montreal with another partner that chose to quit skating with him.
I heard it was Marie-France that suggested Nikolai and Vanessa still wanting to skate agreed to try it out. I doubt Vanessa would have left Canada for Denmark so no release would have been discussed on this partnership. The partnership was a 2-3 month trial and not cast in stone.

Yes Lane's commentary was certainly withering about G/P competitors. But there are many other rumours about Carol Lane from skaters in her den.

 

[chantilly]

Nikolai like to paint a picture that is not quite accurate.

So an actual skater directly involved in the situation , who was quoting something that seems pretty much factual and without shade is not accurate , but a bunch of people speculating on a forum are?

Unless you have specific, direct knowledge of what happened, then your comment ike every one here is purely speculation.

 

[chantilly]

Vanessa was sick leading up to Olympics. They competed there and the breakup came after.
My only source was this form and I assumed from what it said there was a problem between Carol and Vanessa..but it did not say what.
The Carol Lane evil came from later on when her commentary on CBC was not nice about some of the other ice dance teams while of course seeing no faults whatsoever on G/P. Then she made weird comments about Tessa and Scott when they decided they would start training again and hopefully go to Olympics. Although she is a brilliant choreographer she was giving crap programs to up and coming teams. It could be like Vegas in her camp though. I have not read any specifics.

It could simply be that Vanessa thought they needed to go to a coach with more political clout, but even back then with Vanessa, Christopher Dean did some choreography.

As for Carol’s comments, I didn’t find her comments about Canadian ice dance and Tessa and Scott’s return strange or weird at all. Perhaps a bit blunt. And there may have been a tinge of frustration due to it affecting her own team, but she’s been nothing but supportive of V and M.

I also think her “numbers “ program with her lower ranked team was anything but crap. Her camp doesn’t have any teams that could remotely challenge for podium in Canada, so it would make little sense to sabotage them.

As for her other comments, she’s also been highly complimentary to several teams, including P and C, S and S, H and D, W and P to name a few.

As for her own team she’s made comments about their issues and working together, but IMO kept it pretty neutral regarding anything around placement or marks save the infamous “But it’s Russia” comment.

 

[Impromptu]

The Carol Lane evil came from later on when her commentary on CBC was not nice about some of the other ice dance teams while of course seeing no faults whatsoever on G/P. Then she made weird comments about Tessa and Scott when they decided they would start training again and hopefully go to Olympics.

[and I found the interview on youtube that last time someone harped on this]. She agreed with Kurt Browning that Tessa and Scott would be very competitive and were still in shape to make a run at another Olympic Gold. {Which is not weird, and also, she was correct}

 

[barbarafan]

It could simply be that Vanessa thought they needed to go to a coach with more political clout, but even back then with Vanessa, Christopher Dean did some choreography.

As for Carol’s comments, I didn’t find her comments about Canadian ice dance and Tessa and Scott’s return strange or weird at all. Perhaps a bit blunt. And there may have been a tinge of frustration due to it affecting her own team, but she’s been nothing but supportive of V and M.

I also think her “numbers “ program with her lower ranked team was anything but crap. Her camp doesn’t have any teams that could remotely challenge for podium in Canada, so it would make little sense to sabotage them.

As for her other comments, she’s also been highly complimentary to several teams, including P and C, S and S, H and D, W and P to name a few.

As for her own team she’s made comments about their issues and working together, but IMO kept it pretty neutral regarding anything around placement or marks save the infamous “But it’s Russia” comment.

She never made comments or pointed out their mistakes when commenting although she would with other teams.
Her comments were on CBC acting as if it was a huge shock that V/M were coming back although they always said then would take a break and then decide. Then she said there was no point in other cdn up and coming teams continuing and a few of her teams did and so did a few others.

 

[barbarafan]

It could simply be that Vanessa thought they needed to go to a coach with more political clout, but even back then with Vanessa, Christopher Dean did some choreography.

As for Carol’s comments, I didn’t find her comments about Canadian ice dance and Tessa and Scott’s return strange or weird at all. Perhaps a bit blunt. And there may have been a tinge of frustration due to it affecting her own team, but she’s been nothing but supportive of V and M.

I also think her “numbers “ program with her lower ranked team was anything but crap. Her camp doesn’t have any teams that could remotely challenge for podium in Canada, so it would make little sense to sabotage them.

As for her other comments, she’s also been highly complimentary to several teams, including P and C, S and S, H and D, W and P to name a few.

As for her own team she’s made comments about their issues and working together, but IMO kept it pretty neutral regarding anything around placement or marks save the infamous “But it’s Russia” comment.

The first comment I picked up on was against H/D (Piper used to dance with him). She said how clever they were to think up unusual lifts as they were not technically capable of doing the usual ones. H/D had just moved to MTL at the time.

 

[barbarafan]

Nikolai likes to paint a picture that is not quite accurate. Many men have big egos suffice it to say.

He had already been training in Montreal with another partner that chose to quit skating with him.
I heard it was Marie-France that suggested Nikolai and Vanessa still wanting to skate agreed to try it out. I doubt Vanessa would have left Canada for Denmark so no release would have been discussed on this partnership. The partnership was a 2-3 month trial and not cast in stone.

Yes Lane's commentary was certainly withering about G/P competitors. But there are many other rumours about Carol Lane from skaters in her den.

I have never heard of any other rumours but I am not an skating insider so if it was published anywhere I would not have seen it. What type of rumours?

 

[Moustaffask8r]

I have never heard of any other rumours but I am not an skating insider so if it was published anywhere I would not have seen it. What type of rumours?

Nicolai had try out with both Vanessa and Lauence. He picked Vanessa over Laurence because Crone had international points and at that time they would have been able to get GP assignments the next year!

 

[marbri]

Nicolai had try out with both Vanessa and Lauence. He picked Vanessa over Laurence because Crone had international points and at that time they would have been able to get GP assignments the next year!

I think Barbarafan was asking about the Carol Lane rumours.

I don't think one can call Nikolaj choosing Vanessa over Laurence a rumour since they both basically said what you just said in that Inside Skating interview.

 

[chantilly]

The first comment I picked up on was against H/D (Piper used to dance with him). She said how clever they were to think up unusual lifts as they were not technically capable of doing the usual ones. H/D had just moved to MTL at the time.

Guess it depends on your interpretation.
I saw it as they don’t have as much of a height difference so they’ve had to adjust when it comes to lifts.
Which has also been said by Tracy Wilson and is actually true.

 

[chantilly]

She never made comments or pointed out their mistakes when commenting although she would with other teams.
Her comments were on CBC acting as if it was a huge shock that V/M were coming back although they always said then would take a break and then decide. Then she said there was no point in other cdn up and coming teams continuing and a few of her teams did and so did a few others.

I definitely remember her pointing out mistakes.
Otherwise I found her pretty neutral and quiet when they skated unless she talked generally about their programs or personal stuff etc.

 

[puglover]

I may be a minority of one but I enjoy Carol Lane's commentary. The fact that she is currently coaching dance teams and understands more of the finer details I see as a plus as dance seems to become more and more inscrutable. Tanith White is excellent, from what I have seen, but she presumably doesn't have any horses in the race currently.

 

[chantilly]

Agreed.
I love Tracy too, but I so appreciate the finer points that Carol brings.

I really remember it came in handy when the 2017 season she pointed out the P and C costly errors in the short dance as they lost quite a few levels and it really clarified why.

 

[chantilly]

I say that because the errors didn’t seem like much to a relative lay person, but they were in fact very costly.

 

[Moustaffask8r]

I think Barbarafan was asking about the Carol Lane rumours.

I don't think one can call Nikolaj choosing Vanessa over Laurence a rumour since they both basically said what you just said in that Inside Skating interview.

I'm not saying the fact that he tried with both is a rumor I'm saying why he picked one over the other

 

[marbri]

I'm not saying the fact that he tried with both is a rumor I'm saying why he picked one over the other

I know. It's alluded to in the interview. Vanessa was a bigger deal so he wanted her over no-name Laurence with just a JGP behind her.

Anyway, interesting to see how the dance teams line up at Nationals.

 

[Wyliefan]

It strikes me that Canadian dance scandals are . . . not very scandalous. "A coach said impolite things about her team's competitors! Unless maybe she didn't. It's all in how you look at it, really."

 

[overedge]

Since there were a couple of senior ice dance teams in Canada who *did* pack it in after V/M returned, I don't think Lane's observation was that out of line. And IIRC she said that before those retirements happened.

 

[chantilly]

I remember it as afterwards but could be wrong.
Either way it’s hardly mean, shady, out of line or inappropriate.

 

[barbarafan]

Since there were a couple of senior ice dance teams in Canada who *did* pack it in after V/M returned, I don't think Lane's observation was that out of line. And IIRC she said that before those retirements happened.

Exactly...instead of encouraging them to work hard and stay in there she told them they should quit...Which left a clear field for her number 1 team.

 

[barbarafan]

It strikes me that Canadian dance scandals are . . . not very scandalous. "A coach said impolite things about her team's competitors! Unless maybe she didn't. It's all in how you look at it, really."

That is not the scandal part. It would be more like what was going on in the camp that made Vanessa want to leave and the others rumours coming out of the camp.

 

[Colonel Green]

Exactly...instead of encouraging them to work hard and stay in there she told them they should quit...Which left a clear field for her number 1 team.

Oh come on. Gilles and Poirier were not remotely in danger from those teams. Which is why a number of the teams did indeed withdraw; it wasn’t mean old Carol that put that thought in their heads.

A commentator’s role is to assess the field; she did that, and honestly.

 

[Moustaffask8r]

I remember it as afterwards but could be wrong.
Either way it’s hardly mean, shady, out of line or inappropriate.

She said what most people taught! and it was true

 

[Andora]

I remember taking issue with Carol around 2014, but she doesn't seem to irk me now. It's possible she wasn't so bad, or she got better at masking her bias. Who can forget her "skating in Russia" remark?

I don't understand the comments about Vanessa being sick during the olympics? That was 2010, and they didn't split for another full season.

 

[barbarafan]

I remember taking issue with Carol around 2014, but she doesn't seem to irk me now. It's possible she wasn't so bad, or she got better at masking her bias. Who can forget her "skating in Russia" remark?

I don't understand the comments about Vanessa being sick during the olympics? That was 2010, and they didn't split for another full season.

Her illness was one where you are very very sick at first and then in great pain and terrible fatigue for months afterward. It definitely would have been a prob. training for Olympics in that condition. Perhaps that is where the problems started and their team could have had different ideas on how much she could train.