2026 Olys Free Dance PBP - Whale, Are We Ready For Some Bull Sheet Scores?

allezfred said:
I saw somebody say something about Mark Hanretty’s studio analysis on British Eurosport (what was said was totally taken out of context as it turned out - surprise, surprise). However he did say the following:

“Laurence and Guillaume are indisputably the strongest skaters in the world - their flow, their glide, indisputably the best.”

“They are such class and finesse and truly the best ice dance team the world has ever seen.”
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That was probably me, sorry about that…:rofl:
 
Cachoo said:
All I know is that I prefer now to the ice dancing days of yore when you started the season, say in 7th position, had a terrible skate and ended in 7th position, followed by a glorious skate and remained in 7th position.
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My favorite Dance example, because I saw it live, was when Winkler/Lohse -- I ADORED them -- wiped out at the beginning of their step sequence and raced across the long end of the rink to get to the end of it, and they still remained in FORTH over Chait/Sakhnovsky, whom I never liked as a team. (I liked him a lot.)

My favorite singles example is when Plushenko wiped out on his 3Lo attempt at 2004 Worlds, and still beat Joubert in the FS. (I don't think a win in the FS would have done it, because Joubert was second in his quali.)

manhn said:
They normally had one good but the other was subpar. But it’s on their coaches to rework their programs, both of them were so darn stagnant
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G/P lost a lot of levels over the years, and Lane and Razgulajevs did little to fix those programs. I often wonder how much Guignard/Fabbri stuck with some of their programs out of loyalty to Fusar-Poli. If it hadn't been a repeated pattern, I would have thought it was because she fell so ill this season, but it was standard bad choices for them.

Karen-W said:
The decision the IDTC made to separate the BV for both partners made it easier to overlook errors & weaknesses in one partner or the other & allowed the hierarchy to become almost immovable unless there was a glaring error (like Lilah's twizzles last night). If we want real movement, we go back to the time where a team lived or died by the weaker partner's twizzles and step sequence levels.
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Preach.
MsZem said:
Limiting the number of choreo elements and the GOEs for them would also help.
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Preach some more.
 
Since we were discussing who skaters like... Aljona Savchenko's stories feature Spain, F-B/C, and Piper/Paul. But I doubt she was there in person.
 
skatfan said:
I know she designs but does she sew? Gotta be able to select fabrics and sew quickly to do that show.
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That's a good question. I'd guess she has at least rudimentary sewing skills since part of designing requires an understanding of how different types of fabric will drape & fall over the body. Even in skating, there is a variety of fabrics we see used. Now, she may not be able to sew quickly enough to excel in a show like Project Runway; but I could see her being a good candidate for a guest judging stint.
 
Karen-W said:
That's a good question. I'd guess she has at least rudimentary sewing skills since part of designing requires an understanding of how different types of fabric will drape & fall over the body. Even in skating, there is a variety of fabrics we see used. Now, she may not be able to sew quickly enough to excel in a show like Project Runway; but I could see her being a good candidate for a guest judging stint.
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Madison probably has learned a lot from Mathieu Caron, who executes her designs. But that is quite different than doing it all oneself.

I could see Madi being a guest judge.
 
I've realised I have a type:

Russian born women, specifically from Moscow, who move to France, have bright red hair, and skate with Frenchman whose first name begins with G.

First one of my all time faves, Anissina, in my avatar obviously.
And now Lopareva, my new fave.

Oddly specific taste I've got going on there.
 
skatfan said:
Madison probably has learned a lot from Mathieu Caron, who executes her designs. But that is quite different than doing it all oneself.

I could see Madi being a guest judge.
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That makes sense... I should have known they execute for her. Her designs were all over their display at Worlds, and I was fangirling their work all week...
 
Several things here and then I'm going to stay the heck of 2026 ice dance threads. Yes, I am aware that I greatly contributed to the fight comments. So the Pot Calling the Kettle stuff

When a woman presents an accusation of rape - whether it's reported immediately or one becomes brave enough to report it years later, it's the same old shit. She wanted it, he didn't force her. She said - He said. The story as old as time. In this case it is Nik being accused of rape.

In Gabi's case, she is saying she felt emotional, verbal abuse. Hers is an opinion she holds. His opinion is she only wants to destroy me. Same shit, she said, he said

It's complicated when fans detest/hates/denigrates, on either side, the skills of the competitors and the opinions of the other fans. Each team has rabid fans. Those fans have declared their team far superior and declare the other team fans clearly can't/don't see the superiority of skating.

We've seen this in ice dance for decades. As I understand, this Board was created out of one of these intense rivalry.

Judging is a complete mystery to many casual watchers - he fell why are his scores higher, etc. and to many here. I can sometimes explain that some scores. But twizzles levels, or why level 3 is different than a 2 or 4 🤷.
 
I came into this season not even knowing the whole drama about FB/C... and it took all season for me to appreciate their amazing free skate. But I STILL don't feel an emotional connection to the program when they skate it. Piper and Paul were expressive last night, and I got into that program finally, as beautifully as they skated it last night. I've never been a big C/B fan either, but they didn't seem "on" last night... I wouldn't argue with the results overall although I'm really sad for F/G.
 
her grace said:
And while I'm discussing the direction of the sport:
I would like the ISU to ensure that there are a variety of ways to achieve high-level lifts that allow partners closer in height to compete with the tall guy/tiny girl pairings; I think we saw a bit of that in the complaints that FB/C's lifts, or H/D's lifts before them, were too easy. Coomes/Buckland and Chock/Bates ushered in an era of very dynamic lifts where the male partner can (more) easily maneuver the female partner than can partnerships where the man and woman are closer in height. But teams that are closer in height can skate closer in hold and can create better synchronization of movement. Right now, we seem to be valuing lifts over these skating qualities. I think that's a terrible tradeoff since holds and unison are closer to the heart of dance than lifts, which we've already got pairs for. Not to mention that some of the easier dance lifts can be very visually effective and musical.
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This. I remember when Josee Pichee and Pascal Denis did ice dance and the announcers saying they'll never get anywhere because of their height difference. Leg lines wouldn't match etc.
 
I feel like I’ve been hit with so many write ups about Chock/Bates being robbed and/or how broken ice dance judging is. Mainstream publications are picking up the story and it’s gained traction with tons of engagement.

The problem with mainstream press taking over this narrative is that we see tons of reactions talking about all the mistakes Fournier-Beaudry/Cizeron made, which it can be argued they made errors, but you can tell people are imagining like a huge ones.

This kind of worked out well for Chock/Bates because they’re getting so much attention and I’ve been seeing their pictures posted all over. So many of my friends and acquaintances are asking me if I saw them getting robbed by “the French team.”
 
VGThuy said:
The problem with mainstream press taking over this narrative is that we see tons of reactions talking about all the mistakes Fournier-Beaudry/Cizeron made, which it can be argued they made errors, but you can tell people are imagining like a huge ones.
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Honestly, the way I've seen some people talk about it, you'd think Cizeron was Laetitia Hubert in Albertville.
 
marbri said:
Concept programs like the Snake and the Alien were much more successful for them because it plays to their strengths: Maddie the seductress, Evan the seduced. The Yin to her Yang. You know, opposites attract type of concept programs.

But I don't think they managed that here. At all. I was fully behind the two programs I mentioned above. But here I couldn't get away from the impression that Evan couldn't capture the essence of the bull and Maddie and her skirt became just a difficult prop to manage and never rose to the occasion of what it could have been choreographically. I just think they tried to do too much and didn't pull it off.
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This is what I was thinking but couldn't fully articulate. This is not a diss on Evan by any means, but he has a much softer presence on the ice. Not that he isn't fast or strong, because he is, but he just doesn't exude the same power that Madi does.

Bulls and matadors are struggling with each other - sometimes one is dominant and sometimes it's the other. For that to work for Madi and Evan, both of them would have to project the same energy and presence, and I never really felt that happen. I wonder if they decided to challenge themselves with a program where she wasn't cast as the dominant one - which I can see from a perspective of wanting to grow as artists/creators. But at the end of the day (sorry for the cliche) I don't think it worked.

I was also wondering about the skirt. I thought it was a great design choice, but I also wonder if all the effort and time fussing about it made them a little cautious about the program overall - like, being afraid that the skirt would unexpectedly sabotage them. I do agree that the skirt was kind of a distraction. The way it flew in the air showed off their speed and power, but it had so much fabric in it that they really had to watch for it in lifts and spins.

I still think they should have won though.
 
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Yazmeen said:
A petition has been started on Change.org to investigate the French judge involved in the free dance. Per Newsweek:

"Yet despite their errors, a French judge awarded them a score nearly eight points higher than the Americans. In fact, five out of the nine judges favored Chock and Bates, but they missed out on gold by 1.43 points.

The French judge's scorecard stands out as a clear outlier, ultimately giving Beaudry and Cizeron just enough to edge out the other judges' scores."

Of course, it will go nowhere, but still.

"https://www.newsweek.com/sports/oly...aem_QTMl61y7-SgeKwJIRx84bA#Echobox=1770887374
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I have seen so much sh*t going around on social media about this. Mainly by people who only watch the Olympics. One person who actually admitted they only watch the Olympics has been an armchair expert on it and posting videos spreading misinformation which people are taking as some degree of expertise just because somehow obsession is qualification.

I am grateful that most people here have a better understanding of how it works.
 
One time, when I still had X Formerly Known as Twitter, I felt compelled to advocate for Courtney Hicks because some professor type mansplained the scoring system to her after she corrected him. The Olympics are great because finally the world is into our niche interest. It’s also awful because the world is full awful people.
 
Video breaking down the Free Dance, and a deep dive into the top 2. I was a little surprised TBH... :shuffle: :slinkaway

The Skating Session - S2E26 - 2026 OLYMPICS FREE DANCE Deep Dive & Aftermath​


- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.
youtu.be youtu.be
 
her grace said:
I think the whole quad wasn't up to the level of previous quads (partially, the rules are to blame here) and whoever won wasn't going to be as strong a team as Papadakis/Cizeron, Virtue/Moir, or Davis/White.

I hope one of the takeaways that the ISU receives is that audiences like and can appreciate skating skills and not just gimmicks and entertainment.

And while I'm discussing the direction of the sport:
I would like the ISU to ensure that there are a variety of ways to achieve high-level lifts that allow partners closer in height to compete with the tall guy/tiny girl pairings; I think we saw a bit of that in the complaints that FB/C's lifts, or H/D's lifts before them, were too easy. Coomes/Buckland and Chock/Bates ushered in an era of very dynamic lifts where the male partner can (more) easily maneuver the female partner than can partnerships where the man and woman are closer in height. But teams that are closer in height can skate closer in hold and can create better synchronization of movement. Right now, we seem to be valuing lifts over these skating qualities. I think that's a terrible tradeoff since holds and unison are closer to the heart of dance than lifts, which we've already got pairs for. Not to mention that some of the easier dance lifts can be very visually effective and musical.
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Weigh the skaters before the event, apply a handicap based on the weight ratio of the partners compared to each other, which then gets punched into the system during the pre-event data entry, which then gets applied after the GOE average is determined to that lift value. You know like the handicaps they apply to racehorses.

Sorry I am not sure that came out the way I intended. :D
 
Augusztus said:
Honestly, the way I've seen some people talk about it, you'd think Cizeron was Laetitia Hubert in Albertville.
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Are you thinking Albertville or Nagano? Although Hubert didn't splat at Nagano, she just popped every jump except one.

Those errors from Cizeron were errors that deduct from the overall element GOE. I rewatched last night. I commented that during the event he looked off but rewatching, yes there were some issues but they did not affect the overall program quality and presentation. I won't be surprised that program gets used in a future ISU dance seminar to talk about errors impacting on a performance and how you would evaluate it as a judge.

The ISU would not be immune to the talk about the outcome. But does anyone else think that if it wasn't a North American team who lost the outrage would not be as outrageous?
 
Ilia Averbukh said the French deserved gold (even with a mistake) and that Stepanova/Bukin would have won silver. He then put the Canadians third, and then Chock/Bates fourth with Zingas/Kolesnik in 5th. :lol:

fs-gossips.com

“1st place: The French (despite a mistake); 2nd: Stepanova and Bukin; 3rd: The Canadians; 4th: Perhaps Chock and Bates; 5th: The Americans Zingas and Kolesnik; and only after that, everyone else.” – Averbukh on the Olympic podium If Russian skaters w

Ilia Averbukh believes that Alekandra Stepanova and Ivan Bukin could have contended for second place at the 2026 Olympics in Milan.
fs-gossips.com
 
VGThuy said:
Ilia Averbukh said the French deserved gold (even with a mistake) and that Stepanova/Bukin would have won silver. He then put the Canadians third, and then Chock/Bates fourth with Zingas/Kolesnik in 5th. :lol:

fs-gossips.com

“1st place: The French (despite a mistake); 2nd: Stepanova and Bukin; 3rd: The Canadians; 4th: Perhaps Chock and Bates; 5th: The Americans Zingas and Kolesnik; and only after that, everyone else.” – Averbukh on the Olympic podium If Russian skaters w

Ilia Averbukh believes that Alekandra Stepanova and Ivan Bukin could have contended for second place at the 2026 Olympics in Milan.
fs-gossips.com
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You know, other than the ludicrous part about Stepanova/Bukin, this kind of makes sense to me...
 
thvu said:
Video breaking down the Free Dance, and a deep dive into the top 2. I was a little surprised TBH... :shuffle: :slinkaway

The Skating Session - S2E26 - 2026 OLYMPICS FREE DANCE Deep Dive & Aftermath​


- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.
youtu.be youtu.be
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Another amazing and incredibly thoughtful analysis! Not what I expected 😱but very enlightening! Again- we all appreciate you both so much.
 
dancefan17 said:
Another amazing and incredibly thoughtful analysis! Not what I expected 😱but very enlightening! Again- we all appreciate you both so much.
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Would someone be willing to share the gist of this recap? Won't have a chance to watch for a while.
 
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